Putting God's Design In Perspective

[Skwim]

That's an easy one! What else would an eternal living god do with all that time?

Yeah, but to do the same thing over and over and over and over and over and . . . . ? Obviously god got himself in one huge creative rut.

So he does what all humans do: quess, experiment, fail and repeat. Except god has to do it for eternity. Poor guy.

Well, it certainly doesn't say much for the guy, does it.

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[Skwim]

I believe the answer is that God is awesome and His magnitude beyond our ability to imagine, therefore His creativity is very, very big, expansive, and incredible.

But he just created the same thing over and over and over and over, and over and . . . , which hardly speaks to much creativity at all.

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[Skwim]

Your argument from incredulity besides, I don't see any conflict.

Ah, what argument is that? I only asked a question: "Why? Why did god bother with it all?

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[Skwim]

Skwim, you are very special

Yeah, that's what my mother always said, but then she also told me that Santa Clause was real.

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[Hockeycowboy]

Why did god bother with it all?

That's basically the question, isn't it?

Because we're not the only intelligent life God made. There are millions of spirit creatures, who also are curious, and enjoy exploring.

Some day, as a human, I hope to explore them!

 

[Glaurung]

Giordano Bruno was burnt at the stake for heresy, for asserting that the Sun is a star

It wasn't his cosmology that got him into trouble so much as it was his public denial of a whole range of Catholic doctrine. It may not be right but repudiating the state religion was a dangerous thing to do in sixteenth century Italy.

Ah, what argument is that? I only asked a question: "Why? Why did god bother with it all?

That you can't reconcile theism with a vast universe is an augment from incredulity. For me, the size of the universe is not an issue that touches upon my faith because my faith isn't an explanation for anything and everything. The historical battles over heliocentrism had less to do with Catholic dogma per se than it had to do with the Aristotelian and Ptolemaic orthodoxy of the day. That and the predictions of the Copernican model (such as the visibility of the stellar parallax) weren't actually panning out.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Lets hit at the aritotilian description of the universe for now. Why dont that fit?

I think he meant "Aristotelian".

 

[Skwim]

I think God gave us brains to use them, and I really appreciate this thoughtful post. My answer would be that only a very powerful God would care about all this, and perhaps there is life repeated frequently throughout the Universe. The Drake Equation even tells is there should be.

Well, not all that many. in our galaxy, which is estimated to have around 250 billion stars, the most current estimate of N, the number of technologically advanced civilizations in the Milky Way Galaxy, I've seen was 500. That's two for every billion stars.

"Taking the current numbers (or the average of the estimates) and multiplying them, we get N=(1)(0.4)(1)(0.5)(0.5)(0.5)(10,000) -- Drake's L thrown in for good measure -- or N=500 communicating civilizations in the galaxy."
source

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[Skwim]

That you can't reconcile theism with a vast universe is an augment from incredulity.

Then I suggest you look up the word "argument" in the dictionary.

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[Glaurung]

Then I suggest you look up the word "argument" in the dictionary.

"but I am looking to see how one squares the enormity of the universe, both in size and content, with the contention that it was all designed by god."

This is an implicit argument. You don't need to read in between the lines to see the obvious assumption being made. I'm challenging that assumption as fallacious. (And yes, I just noticed the typo).

 

[Salvador]

But he just created the same thing over and over and over and over, and over and . . . , which hard;y speaks to much creativity at all.

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Mr Skwim, who's to say our creator simulates only our universe; there could be countless other simulated universes our creator has programmed .

 

[Skwim]

"but I am looking to see how one squares the enormity of the universe, both in size and content, with the contention that it was all designed by god."

This is an implicit argument. You don't need to read in between the lines to see the obvious assumption being made. I'm challenging that assumption as fallacious. (And yes, I just noticed the typo).

Have a good day.

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[Skwim]

Mr Skwim, who's to say our creator simulates only our universe;

I don't know.

there could be countless other simulated universes our creator has programmed .

But we aren't talking about other "simulated universes," just this one.

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[Hockeycowboy]

There is no such thing as an "unexpected consequence" with an all-knowing creator.

Why does "all-knowing", have to include 'knowing the future'?

A few times, the Bible says that people "hurt" Him, i.e., his feelings.

If he knew this was to happen....is he a sado-masochist then?

The only explanation is...God can opt to know what the future holds, but rarely with specific individuals. Usually, it's like us seeing a person texting while driving, and saying, "They're going to cause an accident"; then voilá, it happens.
His wisdom is far-seeing.

 

[blü 2]

I believe that's a possibility, but I think we are more likely valued for educational purposes in an ancestral simulation done by our post-human futuristic descendants.

Wunderbar!

I dare say I don't need to remind you that the Tron Game, Last Thursday, the Dream in the Mind of God and of course strict Solipsism are united in being neither verifiable nor refutable.

Excellent choice.

 

[blü 2]

Why does "all-knowing", have to include 'knowing the future'?

Because if you don't know the future, you don't know everything which means that when it comes to knowing, you're not omni. Plus, if you can't make yourself omniscient at will, you're not omnipotent.

The idea is hardly new. Augustine of Hippo remarked to God, 'anni tui omnes simul stant' ─ literally, 'All your years stand at the one time' meaning, 'You see all years at once'.

A few times, the Bible says that people "hurt" Him, i.e., his feelings.

The [guy] who orders invasive war, pillage, massacre, mass rape, human sacrifice, who created everything knowing exactly what the consequences would be, has wounded feelings? Wow, the Almighty Diddums!

The only explanation is...God can opt to know what the future holds

You forget that [he]'s omnipresent, therefore already everywhere in spacetime. [He]'s already seen everything happen. It's too late to opt out.

Which is only to say that an omnipotent omniscient god is never the victim of chance, and a perfect god is never the victim of imperfect knowledge.

 

[Jumi]

I first misread the title as Putin, God's design in perspective. I've read too many political posts on here recently... I'll show myself out now, thanks.

 

[youknowme]

Why does "all-knowing", have to include 'knowing the future'?

It is right in the name all-knowing.

 

[Kenny]

It isn't, but a lot of Christians do think we are pretty darn special in god's eyes, some even believing we're the best thing he's ever created.

I think you are special God's eyes, even if you don't.

 

[Kenny]

But he just created the same thing over and over and over and over, and over and . . . , which hardly speaks to much creativity at all.

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Actually, I think it speaks more of our lack of creativity that His. But, as science and knowledge continues to grow exponentially, we are realizing our potential as He designed it. Remember, we used to think that the mold was a problem until penicillin was discovered.