Psychotherapy and Mysticism

[Windwalker]

On a spiritual path to transcend the ego as the locus of one's self-identity, do you see the value of examining the factors in one's own historical makeup, such as addressing traumas that have symptoms such as anger and rage, anxieties, phobias, narcissistic leanings, and such? Is work to "clean up" things like the shadow self, the repressed or disowned self which we all have, beneficial, or possibly even necessary to advance beyond the ego itself?

Can it be considered a valid path to Self realization, to examine one's own personal life on that level in order to "let it go" and move beyond it, whereas it may always still be back there, despite all our efforts to ignore or "overcome" it?

 

[David T]

On a spiritual path to transcend the ego as the locus of one's self-identity, do you see the value of examining the factors in one's own historical makeup, such as addressing traumas that have symptoms such as anger and rage, anxieties, phobias, narcissistic leanings, and such? Is work to "clean up" things like the shadow self, the repressed or disowned self which we all have, beneficial, or possibly even necessary to advance beyond the ego itself?

Can it be considered a valid path to Self realization, to examine one's own personal life on that level in order to "let it go" and move beyond it, whereas it may always still be back there, despite all our efforts to ignore or "overcome" it?

Absolutely. Although i think we over think all of it. We can take the absurdly simple and make it complex. That seems to be a specialty of ours.

 

[Windwalker]

Absolutely. Although i think we over think all of it. We can take the absurdly simple and make it complex. That seems to be a specialty of ours.

This is very true. What it seems we do is at an earlier stage in life when say a traumatic or difficult life-experience confronts us, is we develop coping mechanisms which for that time in our lives worked "well-enough" to get us by. But then that mechanism becomes a habit which we just continue to repeat without modification. What worked when we were 13, does not work well when we are in our 50s.

What seems necessary is to learn how to heal and then integrate that, rather than "getting rid of it". The latter is what creates all manner of dysfunctions of the egoic-self, to just ignore or deny those things like this in ourselves, creates a monster out of them. So I'm of the mind that whereas some forms of spiritual practice tell you to ignore all of that, but I'm of the belief that if you don't learn to face the truth in yourself and own and heal and integrate these things, they will come out no matter what. You can touch the face of the Divine and experience Freedom, but that does not fix what is broken. It will come to light regardless.

To be fully Free, to me, means everything, body, mind, soul, and spirit. To see "Face to Face" requires true self-honesty, not denials and repressions. Once that is held in the hands of Love, once we can hold ourselves like this, then we be truly authentic. Otherwise, the pursuit of God or the Absolute, choose whatever word you like, can in fact be a form of spiritual bypassing, an escape from this world, not an integration into it. Having an experience of the Divine is freeing, but it's the beginning, not the end. Integration is the goal, so long as we are in this body, not disintegration. That is "hating" the body, and hate is not Love or Truth.

 

[sun rise]

Can it be considered a valid path to Self realization, to examine one's own personal life on that level in order to "let it go" and move beyond it,

That is to me a very important idea. If there is something that is binding, we need to become unbound and it's helpful to not reject a source of insight and freeing because of the label it has.

 

[sealchan]

On a spiritual path to transcend the ego as the locus of one's self-identity, do you see the value of examining the factors in one's own historical makeup, such as addressing traumas that have symptoms such as anger and rage, anxieties, phobias, narcissistic leanings, and such? Is work to "clean up" things like the shadow self, the repressed or disowned self which we all have, beneficial, or possibly even necessary to advance beyond the ego itself?

Can it be considered a valid path to Self realization, to examine one's own personal life on that level in order to "let it go" and move beyond it, whereas it may always still be back there, despite all our efforts to ignore or "overcome" it?

As a Jungian, I say, of course! In my formulation, our dreams show us our shadow as often a same sex contrary personality which has taken an alternate path to that of the dominant ego complex. As a result an imbalance in the psyche is introduced and the ego has to, at some point, find the strength to negotiate with this abandoned realm of psychic energy. So too for the anima/animus another fundamental split or bias in the development of the individual psyche.

In my own formulation of this, one's greatest strength is like a protective growth of the psyche around one's greatest weakness. Also, we cannot avoid developing our cognitive functions (Jung's psychological types) in a biased way.

Our growth is always through a path of harboring an imbalance (a sort of unavoidable, inherent propensity to "sin") and temporing our heavy-handed strength through disciplined openness to our "wound" or weakness. That is the wisdom of Jesus' teaching "Do Not Judge Others" which I just now started a thread on in Scriptural Debates.

From my Christian perspective, this is a major criticism I have of those who define their belief in terms of a mere creed "I believe Jesus died for my sins..." Taken in the most simplistic way this removes/protects the individual with having to come to terms with their own sin/biased nature and prevents them from achieving, thereby, any real psychological, moral or spiritual growth. They are thereby blocked by a simple rational statement from going beyond their own limited rationality.

 

[Jumi]

What is useful - take. What is not - avoid.

 

[David T]

This is very true. What it seems we do is at an earlier stage in life when say a traumatic or difficult life-experience confronts us, is we develop coping mechanisms which for that time in our lives worked "well-enough" to get us by. But then that mechanism becomes a habit which we just continue to repeat without modification. What worked when we were 13, does not work well when we are in our 50s.

What seems necessary is to learn how to heal and then integrate that, rather than "getting rid of it". The latter is what creates all manner of dysfunctions of the egoic-self, to just ignore or deny those things like this in ourselves, creates a monster out of them. So I'm of the mind that whereas some forms of spiritual practice tell you to ignore all of that, but I'm of the belief that if you don't learn to face the truth in yourself and own and heal and integrate these things, they will come out no matter what. You can touch the face of the Divine and experience Freedom, but that does not fix what is broken. It will come to light regardless.

To be fully Free, to me, means everything, body, mind, soul, and spirit. To see "Face to Face" requires true self-honesty, not denials and repressions. Once that is held in the hands of Love, once we can hold ourselves like this, then we be truly authentic. Otherwise, the pursuit of God or the Absolute, choose whatever word you like, can in fact be a form of spiritual bypassing, an escape from this world, not an integration into it. Having an experience of the Divine is freeing, but it's the beginning, not the end. Integration is the goal, so long as we are in this body, not disintegration. That is "hating" the body, and hate is not Love or Truth.

Wow... Nicely written. I nean this as a compliment christianity could use a lot of ministers like you.i am not in that tradition per se but very familiar with it there is a mentally unhealthyness to much of it today.

 

[Windwalker]

Wow... Nicely written. I nean this as a compliment christianity could use a lot of ministers like you.i am not in that tradition per se but very familiar with it there is a mentally unhealthyness to much of it today.

Thank you. I obviously use the teachings of Jesus a great deal as a certain touchstone for me, since that is where my native spiritual language has roots. Albeit, it took an Eastern perspective to tease that out of there which was buried under all the dogma and literalism rife in mainstream Christianity.

Honestly, it was a surprise to me actually how when I first started the inward path through meditation, as a self-proclaimed "spiritual atheist" at the time, how quickly I encountered that previous language, yet taking the words and illuminating them in the Light of the experiences of the Divine it opened me to. It is remarkable to me how the same words can end up at different ends of the continent pouring into different oceans.

It honestly seem that watershed point, that continental divide is a point with Spirit on one side, and Ego on the other. Heading to the Atlantic, it merges with the other traditions. Heading to the Pacific it ends up in tribalism.

I've got a ways to swim yet as I near the Atlantic, but the waters are much clearer than they were when religious beliefs muddied them.

 

[crossfire]

On a spiritual path to transcend the ego as the locus of one's self-identity, do you see the value of examining the factors in one's own historical makeup, such as addressing traumas that have symptoms such as anger and rage, anxieties, phobias, narcissistic leanings, and such? Is work to "clean up" things like the shadow self, the repressed or disowned self which we all have, beneficial, or possibly even necessary to advance beyond the ego itself?

Can it be considered a valid path to Self realization, to examine one's own personal life on that level in order to "let it go" and move beyond it, whereas it may always still be back there, despite all our efforts to ignore or "overcome" it?

Isn't this a no-brainer?

 

[Windwalker]

Isn't this a no-brainer?

Some teach that to look into the inner workings of the ego only reinforces the ego, and that it is best to deny any validity to it, as the ego is ultimately recognized as an illusion, which you should "get rid of". I obviously see inherent problems with this, as it can be a form of spiritual bypassing in order to escape one's self, rather than learning to hold oneself with Grace or Compassion.

 

[crossfire]

Some teach that to look into the inner workings of the ego only reinforces the ego, and that it is best to deny any validity to it, as the ego is ultimately recognized as an illusion, which you should "get rid of". I obviously see inherent problems with this, as it can be a form of spiritual bypassing in order to escape one's self, rather than learning to hold oneself with Grace or Compassion.

I'm using Jungian context for Ego and Self: Ego represents the center of the conscious mind, and Self represents the center of the entire psyche. Freud presents Ego as the "reality principle." It's pretty easy to get lost in delusion without a conscious mind grounded in reality. Part of transcending ego means to recognize that the center of the conscious mind is not the center of the psyche--that there are parts of the psyche unseen by the ego. To just ignore these unseen parts is clinging to the ego, not transcending it.

Your mileage may vary.