Prop 8 in California

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Wikipedia is not the most reliable source. Are there any other sites that confirm this?

The California Secretary of State puts out a periodic summary of votes remaining to be processed:

http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/c-status08/total_unprocessed_ballots08.pdf

At the moment, it shows 2,738,000-odd votes still remaining to be counted.... however, not all of these votes will be counted. According to the LA Times, the number includes ~1.9 million mail-in votes that arrived too late. It also includes ~700,000 provisional ballots: votes that were cast by people not on the official voters' list. Now, election officials are trying to determine whether the voters should have been on the list or not. Odds are that many will be deemed to have been cast by people ineligible to vote and therefore won't be included.

 

[MoonWater]

The California Secretary of State puts out a periodic summary of votes remaining to be processed:

http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/c-status08/total_unprocessed_ballots08.pdf

At the moment, it shows 2,738,000-odd votes still remaining to be counted.... however, not all of these votes will be counted. According to the LA Times, the number includes ~1.9 million mail-in votes that arrived too late. It also includes ~700,000 provisional ballots: votes that were cast by people not on the official voters' list. Now, election officials are trying to determine whether the voters should have been on the list or not. Odds are that many will be deemed to have been cast by people ineligible to vote and therefore won't be included.

the la times article said they were too late to be counted on tuesday but didn't say anything about them not being counted at all. I don't think that means that they won't count them at all, just that it will take longer.

 

[lilithu]

The Mormon Church spent $25 million to influence public policy and the outcome of an election. That is lobbying by it's very definition.

And UUs spent money (albeit considerably less than $25 million) to influence public policy in the other direction. It is perfectly legal.

 

[lilithu]

That explains everything. you seek the praise of mankind don't you? :areyoucra

Me thinks Disney is listening to that still small voice inside us called a conscience. Just who's praise are you seeking? :areyoucra

 

[Rolling_Stone]

1. Joint parental rights of children
2. Joint adoption
3. Status as "next-of-kin" for hospital visits and medical decisions
4. Right to make a decision about the disposal of loved ones remains
5. Immigration and residency for partners from other countries
6. Crime victims recovery benefits
7. Domestic violence protection orders
8. Judicial protections and immunity
9. Automatic inheritance in the absence of a will
10. Public safety officers death benefits
11. Spousal veterans benefits
12. Social Security
13. Medicare
14. Joint filing of tax returns
15. Wrongful death benefits for surviving partner and children
16. Bereavement or sick leave to care for partner or children
17. Child support
18. Joint Insurance Plans
19. Tax credits including: Child tax credit, Hope and lifetime learning credits
20. Deferred Compensation for pension and IRAs
21. Estate and gift tax benefits
22. Welfare and public assistance
23. Joint housing for elderly
24. Credit protection
25. Medical care for survivors and dependents of certain veterans

These are just a few of the 1400 state and federal benefits that gays and lesbians are denied by not being able to marry. Most of these benefits cannot be privately arranged or contracted for within the legal system.


source

Cool. "Because it feels like it is the right to do" is not a legitimate reason to sanction same-sex marriage.

 

[madhatter85]

Me thinks Disney is listening to that still small voice inside us called a conscience. Just who's praise are you seeking? :areyoucra

I would have to disagree. I think that somewhere inside him is that voice telling him to listen to the prophets.

 

[Magic Man]

Cool. "Because it feels like it is the right to do" is not a legitimate reason to sanction same-sex marriage.

While I disagree with that assertion, a more accurate way of putting it would be "Because it is the right thing to do". And that is a plenty legitimate reason to allow same-sex marriage, that is, unless you can prove that it's not the right thing to do, which is impossible.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

I would have to disagree. I think that somewhere inside him is that voice telling him to listen to the prophets.

That's a pretty neat trick. Not only are you placing your religious views above the rights of others, you are now assuming that others see them as you do.

Sweet.

 

[lilithu]

I would have to disagree. I think that somewhere inside him is that voice telling him to listen to the prophets.

No doubt that he does.

That's not the point here, is it? You accuse him of seeking the praise of men but did not answer when the same was posed to you. Just who's praise are you seeking?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

That's a pretty neat trick. Not only are you placing your religious views above the rights of others, you are now assuming that others see them as you do.

Sweet.

And this is exactly what I've been saying from the start.....but let government get all up in church business and see how fast they make stink about "Separation of church and state".....

I mean...it's not like the government is going to force the Mormon church or any other church, temple or mosque to perform gay marriages. The law could be passed and they can continue, as usual, on their hate quest to destroy the civil liberties of others.

 

[lilithu]

I mean...it's not like the government is going to force the Mormon church or any other church, temple or mosque to perform gay marriages. The law could be passed and they can continue, as usual, on their hate quest to destroy the civil liberties of others.

How many voters do you think understand this?

I'm not asking to be argumentative. I am wrestling with how much of the vote is due to ignorance on the law as opposed to active antipathy against BGLT.

 

[Alceste]

How many voters do you think understand this?

I'm not asking to be argumentative. I am wrestling with how much of the vote is due to ignorance on the law as opposed to active antipathy against BGLT.

Isn't it active antipathy against BGLT no matter which way you slice it? Either they voted for prop 8 because they think "homosexuality is an abomination, therefore homosexual unions should not be socially acceptable at all", or because they think "homosexuality is an abomination, therefore I don't want my church performing homosexual weddings".

 

[bhimashelper]

I support those who wish to keep the Church and State separate. This law will be overturned eventually, keep up the good fight. I also think all Churches should be made illegal.

 

[Apex]

I also think all Churches should be made illegal.

Oh great, not another one.

 

[Sunstone]

Oh great, not another one.

Ditto.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You do realize that this:

I also think all Churches should be made illegal.

Contradicts this:

I support those who wish to keep the Church and State separate.

Right?

 

[DallasApple]

You do realize that this:


Quote:
Originally Posted by bhimashelper
I also think all Churches should be made illegal.

Contradicts this:


Quote:
Originally Posted by bhimashelper
I support those who wish to keep the Church and State separate.

Right?

Well maybe he changed his mind in mid sentence??? Ya think?? That can happen sometimes ya know...

Love

Dallas

 

[Dirty Penguin]

How many voters do you think understand this?

I'm not asking to be argumentative. I am wrestling with how much of the vote is due to ignorance on the law as opposed to active antipathy against BGLT.

I know you're not being argumentative. I think they understood it. They're just a bunch of bigots. They have a dislike for the gay and lesbian community and some of it, probably a large portion of it in some people, stems from their religious beliefs.

I can even get on board if they only wanted them to be joined in a civil union and not be classified as a "marriage".....but I would want that civil union to be equal in all aspects as a traditional marriage.

IMO....

 

[Watchmen]

I know you're not being argumentative. I think they understood it. They're just a bunch of bigots. They have a dislike for the gay and lesbian community and some of it, probably a large portion of it in some people, stems from their religious beliefs.

What wonderful generalizations you've made.

I can even get on board if they only wanted them to be joined in a civil union and not be classified as a "marriage".....but I would want that civil union to be equal in all aspects as a traditional marriage.

IMO....

That's exactly what it is in California per State law.

 

[lilithu]

Isn't it active antipathy against BGLT no matter which way you slice it? Either they voted for prop 8 because they think "homosexuality is an abomination, therefore homosexual unions should not be socially acceptable at all", or because they think "homosexuality is an abomination, therefore I don't want my church performing homosexual weddings".

So..... everyone has to agree with your view completely or else they're bigots?

Marriage equality was NEVER about forcing churches to marry same-sex couples if they didn't want to. It's about securing the same legal rights for same-sex couples as hetero-couples. But statements like that above reinforce the idea that marriage equality advocates want to impose their beliefs on everyone else.