1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Proof of Jewish exile and escape from Egypt?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, Mar 21, 2021.

  1. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    7,818
    Ratings:
    +2,236
    Religion:
    Unitarian Universalism,Pagan,Zen
    Is there any proof for the passover, that Jews did indeed live as slaves in Egypt and that the miracles and curses existed, water turning to blood, the pestilences, firstborn being killed, etc.........and thee scape of Israelites from Egyptians into the red sea?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. Heyo

    Heyo Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    12,422
    Ratings:
    +11,798
    Religion:
    none
    No.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. Orbit

    Orbit I'm a planet

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    2,749
    Ratings:
    +3,741
    Religion:
    Dinner
    There is no proof. You believe it or you don't.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    7,818
    Ratings:
    +2,236
    Religion:
    Unitarian Universalism,Pagan,Zen
    I thought some of the plagues were proven that at times the river has been known to bleed blood instead of water when the animals die out in it, and there have been plagues of frogs, and other animals, there's a certain science to it but it happens when certain viruses or maybe it's something different but it's scientific.
     
  5. Heyo

    Heyo Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    12,422
    Ratings:
    +11,798
    Religion:
    none
    There have been parallels to real plagues. Locusts are still a problem in the region, during especially high tides the Nile can wash out red clay and some wind patterns could lower the red sea so much that you could wade through. But all these are only possible explanation of single events and most of them are really streched. There is no record slaves having built the pyramids (or other monuments like temples etc.). There is little evidence of Jews in Egypt (and that doesn't connect with the location or the time of the pyramids).
    In short, there is no evidence for the Moses story, either historically or archaeological. That fact is recognized by all serious scientists, Jewish, Christian and other.
    Fabrications of consistency of bible and history are exclusively from lay people with an agenda.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    7,818
    Ratings:
    +2,236
    Religion:
    Unitarian Universalism,Pagan,Zen
    As for slaves building pyramids there seems to be just the opposite. They had a military and their young strong men promised a certain amount of years, many times 10 or 20 years in the service. People died by 40 back then. But they were strong muscular young men who had doctors on hand when any of them got an injury. They got paid and fed well by Egyptians. They found a location where they're lives were recorded on the walls, a place where they lived,encampment
     
  7. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    14,649
    Ratings:
    +8,309
    Religion:
    Christian JW
    An objection against the Exodus account has been that the Pharaohs of Egypt did not make any record of the Exodus. However, this is not unusual, for kings of more modern times have recorded only their victories and not their defeats and have often tried to erase anything historical that is contrary to their personal or nationalistic image or to the ideology they are trying to inculcate in their people. Even in recent times rulers have tried to obliterate the works and reputations of their predecessors. Anything regarded as embarrassing or distasteful was left out of Egyptian inscriptions or effaced as soon as possible.
     
  8. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    8,731
    Ratings:
    +11,870
    Religion:
    Orthodox Judaism
    Depends if you want it to be proof or not. There are some very interesting artifacts out there, and you'll find for the most part secularists claim that they have nothing to do with the Exodus while religious people claim they have everything to do with the Exodus. Here's one example: Ipuwer Papyrus - Wikipedia
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2020
    Messages:
    2,685
    Ratings:
    +1,318
    Religion:
    Torath Mosheh
    Greetings,

    Here are some Jewish sources that may help you research your question. See attached PDF.

    There are a number of good books here in Israel on the topic but they are in Hebrew. Here is in English I think that can help.

    "Riddle of the Exodus: Startling Parallels Between Ancient Jewish Sources and the Egyptian Archaeological Record" by James D. Long

    I will post some more later.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    8,731
    Ratings:
    +11,870
    Religion:
    Orthodox Judaism
    A word to the Egyptians: Don't think you can squirm out of paying us 3333 years' backpay (and counting) by claiming it didn't happen.
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
  11. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2020
    Messages:
    2,685
    Ratings:
    +1,318
    Religion:
    Torath Mosheh
    • Creative Creative x 3
  12. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2020
    Messages:
    8,121
    Ratings:
    +1,797
    Religion:
    Christian
    There is indeed evidence in archaeology for the Conquest of Canaan by the Hebrews in the 15th century BC and there is evidence for the Hebrews having lived in Egypt.
    It's a bit of a mess to work out because of disagreements amongst archaeologists.
    Many archaeologists want the Exodus in the 13th instead of the 15th century but what the Bible says however can be lined up with the history of and different pharaohs ruling in Egypt, with the Exodus being in the 15th century. Events in Canaan also can be lined up with this earlier dating.
    Much of the time that the Hebrews were in Egypt, they were not slaves, but were honoured guests.
    There is even a discovery of a large Hebrew settlement in the area of Goshen, where the Hebrews lived, and this settlement had 12 tombs, one of which was large and the sort of thing that the Egyptians would build only for a dignitary. (Joseph and his brothers)
    There have been attempts to work out the plagues in terms of logic and natural disasters but that is not necessary when God is seen as a God who can perform miracles.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    8,731
    Ratings:
    +11,870
    Religion:
    Orthodox Judaism
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  14. Heyo

    Heyo Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    12,422
    Ratings:
    +11,798
    Religion:
    none
    I'm pretty sure you'd get off the hook for lack of evidence.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  15. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    8,731
    Ratings:
    +11,870
    Religion:
    Orthodox Judaism
    Knowing what the Hague thinks of Israel, I doubt it would be that easy.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    18,813
    Ratings:
    +7,256
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    There are only bits and pieces that express possibilities that it did happen. Archaeology is a long process.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    59,956
    Ratings:
    +40,010
    Religion:
    Atheist
    It is not archaeologists that place the event at that date. It is Bible literalists that date events in the Old Testament using genealogy that get the date you gave.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    23,521
    Ratings:
    +12,315
    Religion:
    None
    Yeah well whatabout the chariot wheels at the bottom of the Red Sea??
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  19. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2017
    Messages:
    5,024
    Ratings:
    +1,023
    Religion:
    Disciple of Jesus
    It would be interesting to see, could there be found "blood" sediment in some part of Nile.
     
  20. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    23,521
    Ratings:
    +12,315
    Religion:
    None
    If they can find chariot wheels...
     
Loading...