Pro Homosexual Evidence.

[work in progress]

It's not just about sex. It's about love, and feeling ashamed because you have been taught that your feelings are unnatural and of the devil, and will make you end up in hell. Some parents refuse all contact with their children once the children come out as homosexual. Shame and fear are two common factors in suicide.

You can't convert homosexuals to being heterosexual. The cases where it has "succeded" have all been wishful thinking. Even some of the leaders of the ex-gay groups have come out and said that they were still gay, and just lied because they wished it wasn't true. There is no scientific evidence that supports that one chooses one's sexual orientation.

Thanks for adding two important points for consideration here. Most stories on teen suicide indicate that gay teens are most likely to take their own lives; no doubt this is especially the case where they are subject to harassment from peers, family and worse- have internalized toxic ideology from fundamentalist churches that they may have had the misfortune to grow up in...and believe the messaging if they are impressionable teens and too young to be able to think it through on their own.

And that gay conversion or reversion, or whatever they want to call it, is the biggest joke out there in the realm of psychological brainwashing. It can be hilarious when the subject is gay men in denial like Marcus Bachman, supposedly turning young gay men straight, but the American Psychological Association made a wise decision several years ago when they determined that these sorts of attempts to change sexual orientation of young men and women were overwhelmingly dangerous and damaging to youth.

It's been mentioned before that the most virulent anti-homosexual crusaders betray themselves as closeted homosexuals themselves; and occasionally fall out of the closet in spectacular ways. The damage they do to themselves and others should have been enough to budge rigid fundamentalists away from their anti-gay ideology; but recent stories in the news -- such as a claim from a Republican insider that they are going to purge all national and state Republican politicians who vote in favour of gay marriage, indicates that the theocrats are in reactionary mode, since they are not only against gay marriage, but also want to remove anti-discrimination laws including protection against bullying in the schools.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Wow, I don't know. If you see one post that seem particularly lucid and representative of the general feelings of the gay Muslims in the discussion, that would be enough. Or if there was something that particularly moved you.

I am happy to feel terrible on behalf of other people who are in pain. Sometimes I think it is healing to know our voices have been heard, even when the hearer can do nothing to help us (for the time being).

Okay, here is one of the questions — I will translate the question while trying to preserve the meaning of the text without any alterations unless necessary, so there are some terms such as "queer" which are used to refer to homosexuals that will be carried over in the translation:

I'm a 30-year-old guy. My problem is that I'm a queer and I have tried to cure myself through various ways including accompanying women [also possibly read as, "having sex with women"], but I failed miserably.

I have also asked psychiatrists about this issue and they told me that they "have no cure for this disease, as the person who has it is born this way", and I went to an imam who tried to cure me by reading from the Qur'an [the word may also imply that other prayers were read and not just Qur'anic verses], but still to no avail; and the problem is that I'm suffering — I'm a normal gentleman from a reputable family but this happens despite my not wanting it to happen; I try to curb this desire, but I'm attracted to men... I don't know what to do and what religion says about me [i.e. "I don't know the Islamic position regarding me and my current situation"].

Here is the link containing the original text of the question (and the answer to it).

To summarize, the answerer told him that he "couldn't have been born this way, as every person is born with natural instincts [i.e. being attracted to the opposite sex]", and that "attraction to people of the same sex is unnatural [also read as, "abnormal"]".

The rest of the answer mostly follows from the above premise, with "advice to overcome this abnormality", such as "occupying your [the enquirer's] time with worship and remembrance of God", "accompanying good people", and "marrying a woman", among others.

If any part of the translated text seems vague, I'll try to use different wording to make it clearer.

 

[Alceste]

Okay, here is one of the questions — I will translate the question while trying to preserve the meaning of the text without any alterations unless necessary, so there are some terms such as "queer" which are used to refer to homosexuals that will be carried over in the translation:



Here is the link containing the original text of the question (and the answer to it).

To summarize, the answerer told him that he "couldn't have been born this way, as every person is born with natural instincts [i.e. being attracted to the opposite sex]", and that "attraction to people of the same sex is unnatural [also read as, "abnormal"]".

The rest of the answer mostly follows from the above premise, with "advice to overcome this abnormality", such as "occupying your [the enquirer's] time with worship and remembrance of God", "accompanying good people", and "marrying a woman", among others.

If any part of the translated text seems vague, I'll try to use different wording to make it clearer.

That is so very sad. It makes me hope for the writer that he finds the strength to liberate himself from his religion. That shouldn't be the only way for a person to find happiness, but in cases like this it seems to be.

 

[waitasec]

Okay, here is one of the questions — I will translate the question while trying to preserve the meaning of the text without any alterations unless necessary, so there are some terms such as "queer" which are used to refer to homosexuals that will be carried over in the translation:



Here is the link containing the original text of the question (and the answer to it).

To summarize, the answerer told him that he "couldn't have been born this way, as every person is born with natural instincts [i.e. being attracted to the opposite sex]", and that "attraction to people of the same sex is unnatural [also read as, "abnormal"]".

The rest of the answer mostly follows from the above premise, with "advice to overcome this abnormality", such as "occupying your [the enquirer's] time with worship and remembrance of God", "accompanying good people", and "marrying a woman", among others.

If any part of the translated text seems vague, I'll try to use different wording to make it clearer.

what makes this a dilemma?
religious ideology


it's very very sad.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I don't know if all Muslims treat gay Muslims that way or not. There are openly gay Muslims, but I have no idea how the community receives them.

 

[Alceste]

what makes this a dilemma?
religious ideology


it's very very sad.

I know that if I had to choose between a life without the religion I was raised with and a life without love, I would inevitably choose love. That's not to say the choice would be easy, especially if I really believed, but there are so many other religions to choose from, and no chance of choosing who I love.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Humans please not animals. Or is that evidence in support of why homosexuality in humans is also natural (ie. because animals do it, is that what you are saying)?

Since we are animals it's natural. Since we know for a fact that other animals engage in homosexual behavior it's not difficult to understand that the human animal is no different. We can just as well ask you to present evidence that heterosexuality is natural......

 

[dust1n]

The Kinsey Institute - Reference - Bibliographies - Homosexuality [Related Resources]

 

[GodlessAtheist]

If we give you evidence that homosexuality is "natural", will you give us evidence that heterosexuality is "natural"? Scientific, of course.

 

[otokage007]

I don't know what kind of support do u seek. But here are some cool things i've heard somewhere:

- There's more than 450 species documented to have homosexual individuals, but only one specie that has homophobic individuals (Homo sapiens).

- Homosexuality could be advantageous in some species. For example: gay birds could help their brothers, fathers, and relatives to raise their children, providing extra food and protection. Why should they do this? Because relatives share genetic traits, so this "gay birds" would be increasing their biological efectiveness (the probability of passing their genes to the next generation). Sometimes, they could even overcome biological efectivenes of straight birds.

- Lion prides dominated by a gay couple (lol!) are reported to be much more efficient at survability than common prides (which just have one male lion).

- Homosexuality could be a way of increasing the survability of social animals by producing individuals that will not reproduce (which means less children, which means more resources for the rest) but will still help the comunity with resources and protection like the other individuals.

Hope it helped.