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Premarital Sex?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
Scott1
Well-Known Member
What I would like everyone to rally against is the practice of pre-marital sex while engaging in unsafe driving... just way too dangerous and could lead to nasty stick shift accidents:cover: !
Seriously... I hope that eventually one day people realize how WONDERFUL sex is and quit cheaping it with pre-marital sex, porn, etc.... most people think they are being "liberated/free" but in fact are generally closing themselves off to the most fruitful part of a lifelong marriage.
Peace,
S
eudaimonia
Fellowship of Reason
Why would pre-marital sex cheapen sex? My pre-marital sex was very meaningful to me, and always done in the context of a serious relationship. It was never meaningless "casual sex".
eudaimonia,
Mark
Scott1
Well-Known Member
I was speaking to what I believe... I know people generally like to say "Well... I did it and it made me happy... so you're wrong", but I don't really like to get that personal. I'll just say that I believe pre-marital sex in general significantly cheapens sex because it is "performed" outside of a complete and total, lifelong, and unbreakable bond of marriage.... to compare whatever "good feelings" that come from such an act to the "ideal" of TOTAL SELF-GIVING to me is just ridiculous. Again, I don't wish to get personal (everyone tends to then freak out and start whining) but I just have a different idea of what "serious relationship" means.
Peace be with you,
S
Engyo
Prince of Dorkness!
I have an observation: The term "pre-marital" is misleading in many cases under discussion here. It is "premarital" sex if a couple is engaged, or at least in a committed relationship with the possibility of marriage in the offing. I really don't think that tag fits all sexual relationships outside of marriage, do you?
I can think of cases where it might be considered pre-marital sex by one participant, but is extra-marital sex for the other. Or possibly construed pre-marital by one participant and unrelated to marriage at all by the other. And where neither participant has any thoughts whatsoever of marrying the other.
I'm just not sure we are using the best catch-all term in this discussion.
I can think of cases where it might be considered pre-marital sex by one participant, but is extra-marital sex for the other. Or possibly construed pre-marital by one participant and unrelated to marriage at all by the other. And where neither participant has any thoughts whatsoever of marrying the other.
I'm just not sure we are using the best catch-all term in this discussion.
I'm not sure why "total self-giving" wouldn't be able to exist without a wedding ceremony. Also, I worry that restricting sex to something only between spouses can be a rather large incentive for a hasty rush to the altar... which could undermine the complete and total bond that you describe.
And also with you.
Scott1
Well-Known Member
Again... I pray no one takes this as a "personal" attack... (I'm just trying to teach what we believe).... but we believe that sex should aim at a deeply personal unity, a unity that, beyond union in one flesh, leads to forming one heart and soul; it demands indissolubility and faithfulness in definitive mutual giving; and it is open to fertility. Without this aim, we believe any sex act (however beautiful, sensual, loving etc.) is LACKING. Our teaching is not about the negative -----> but instead really tries to teach that sex is BEAUTIFUL and AMAZING and God desires us to experience it only in the best way possible.... anything else is less than what could/should be.
True... but that speaks towards our society and weakness as a species. We surrender to these physical desires as if we have no choice..... but in reality our (Roman Catholic) teachings hope to make clear that we should strive for self-mastery in all aspects of life and not give in to anything but the best for ourselves and our neighbor.
Hope that helps you understand Roman Catholic teaching on this subject.
S
I agree that it's an overused term, but I think it can be appropriate if it fits the mindset of the speaker/writer, not just the participants. Depending on the context, plain old sex could be premarital, or pre-lunch, or Wednesday sex, or anything like that. It's not describing a fundamental category of sex, but tells us something about how the person talking views things. There is one problem with it; it implies that everyone having sex will get married at some point, which isn't true no matter what your context is. I'd prefer nonmarital, since I usually hear extramarital used to describe adultery.
Smoke
Done here.
Just like driving a car you don't own. NO TEST DRIVES, PEOPLE!
I realize that the Catholic teaching is that marriage is a sacrament and therefore conveys grace, and therefore, in the Catholic context, it could be argued that a couple is materially changed in the course of the ceremony... but outside that belief, to me it doesn't seem like there's a lot of difference in either indissolubility or faithfulness of a couple from before to after the wedding.
The issue of fertility aside (since I hope you realize that many, if not most, faiths do not share the Catholic view on things like fertility and contraception), it seems to me that marriage is a declaration and an acknowledgement of the indissoluble and faithful nature of the relationship that was there long before the wedding. If the rationale for waiting comes from a requirement for that nature of the relationship, and not the wedding ceremony per se, then I can't see where the objection would come from.
Now, I realize that I've set some issues aside (e.g. fertility and the sacramental nature of marriage) that are very important from the Catholic perspective, but I hope that you can see how people who don't share the Catholic view on those issues can see premarital sex as not necessarily being out-of-keeping with the other view shared by Catholics and and many non-Catholics alike that sex is best saved for a loving, committed, permanent relationship.
If you see marriage as a declaration, not as a sacrament, then you logical conclusion would be that the couple has the same fundamental nature before and after the wedding.
Engyo
Prince of Dorkness!
No rental cars either, I suppose? Drivers' Ed?
Smoke
Done here.
No. Driving is most beautiful and amazing in the context of car ownership, and I want you to experience it only at its very best.
So I take that this is your declaration that you won't want to borrow my van when you move, right?
Engyo
Prince of Dorkness!
OK, then what about buying or selling used cars? Is that permissible?
Smoke
Done here.
Nope. That's your van, and yours alone, for life. No trade-ins, either.So I take that this is your declaration that you won't want to borrow my van when you move, right?
And I'm not allowed to own any other vehicles, I bet.
What about (ahem) performance modifications?
I bet few Carolinans have them, but quite a few people up hear have "winter beaters", or old cars that they only drive in winter to keep their nice summer cars staying nice. I hate to think where those fit into this analogy.
Smoke
Done here.
Of course not.
That's something you have to work out with your van.What about (ahem) performance modifications?
No, we do that with spouses.I bet few Carolinans have them, but quite a few people up hear have "winter beaters", or old cars that they only drive in winter to keep their nice summer cars staying nice. I hate to think where those fit into this analogy.
Scott1
Well-Known Member
Well... that's the point... we believe there should be.... and not in the context of a sacrament but as it relates to two people giving themselves TOTALLY to one and other.
Again... we see it differently... any sense of indissolubility or faithfullness pre-marriage is a mere shadow of what God wants for us....
Hehe... again... I'm not saying you're wrong... just trying to explain what we believe... in that a marriage as a mere "declaration" PALES in comparrison to the Catholic ideal of marriage.... to each his/her own and all, I just wish that more people could experience the best that this world has to offer instead of settling for less.
Peace,
S
Except that we're not. :sarcastic
Scott1
Well-Known Member
Good to hear it... so many people, however, do settle.... most of society feels just fine with taking the scraps from life instead of seeking more... oh well... glad you're not.