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Premarital Sex?

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Sunstone, Aug 27, 2007.

  1. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Polls consistently show that about 90% of Americans engage in premarital sex. The figures might actually be higher for some European countries. Given that so many people engage in premarital sex, would it not be wise to structure teen sexuality education around the premise that at some point in their lives, most teens will engage in premarital sex, and prepare them for that eventuality by emphasizing the responsible use of condoms, etc.?
     
  2. eudaimonia

    eudaimonia Fellowship of Reason

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    Devil's Advocate time:

    Polls consistently show that about 90% of Americans drive over the speed limit. The figures might actually be higher for some European countries. Given that so many people drive over the speed limit, would it not be wise to structure driver's education around the premise that at some point in their lives, most Americans will engage in unsafe driving, and prepare them for that eventuality by emphasizing the responsible use of tricking cops out of giving them speeding tickets, etc.?


    eudaimonia,

    Mark
     
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  3. jacquie4000

    jacquie4000 Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I don't know if they discussed the use of condoms in my son's sexual education classes, how awful of me.:eek: I guess I was not very concerned about it because my son and I had a detailed talk where I left nothing out.
    I think we covered all the bases so to speak.:rolleyes:
     
  4. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Mark, you analogy breaks down when you say, "tricking cops out of giving them speeding tickets". At that point, you are no longer making an analogous statement. Could you rephrase that so it's a true analogy?
     
  5. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    It is strange that in the USA you love and partake in sex so much..
    Yet fear and suppress any talk or education about it.

    Seem a misfit to me.
     
  6. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    In actuality, most driver training covers (and if it doesn't, it should) emergency maneuvers such as avoidance of other vehicles being driven erratically, and safety features like seat belts, air bags, collapsible steering columns, highway guard rails and the safety factors used when designing roads* are all based around the idea that people will speed and do other "bad" things on occasion. If everyone obeyed all rules of the road, none of that would be necessary.




    *you can (and highway engineers do) figure out the safe speed for a particular stretch of road given the turn radius, vertical crest/sag sharpness, banking angle, road surface type, and characteristics of the shoulders and runoff areas; this is the design speed. For virtually all highways, the design speed is significantly lower than the speed limit... if it weren't, people would regularly go off the road when they exceed the speed limit by only a few miles per hour.
     
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  7. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    I can:

    Polls consistently show that about 90% of Americans drive over the speed limit. The figures might actually be higher for some European countries. Given that so many people drive over the speed limit, would it not be wise to structure driver's education around the premise that at some point in their lives, most Americans will engage in unsafe driving, and prepare them for that eventuality by emphasizing seat belt use, car control and defensive driving skills?

    Now it works. :D
     
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  8. eudaimonia

    eudaimonia Fellowship of Reason

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    You make the Devil's Advocate very sad. :(

    Okay, I have to let someone else defend that view. I can't muster up enough sincerity.


    eudaimonia,

    Mark
     
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  9. Pardus

    Pardus Proud to be a Sinner.

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    You can either drive people away from the "love" you claim you are spreading by being exclusive, or you can be inclusive.

    I was at a Salvation Army church service recently, and even they realized that, talking about it's more important to have people belonging than it is to have people believing something or behaving in a particular way.

    Why is this true? Because if your way is so good, just being around you will influence them.
     
  10. UnTheist

    UnTheist Well-Known Member

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    I hope you're not comparing driving unsafely to pre-marital sex :)

    If you're not, then ignore this.
     
  11. eudaimonia

    eudaimonia Fellowship of Reason

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    I was attempting to play Devil's Advocate, unsuccessfully. I have no problem with premarital sex or sex education that covers the use of birth control because I don't personally see premarital sex as immoral.

    The point that I tried to make was that lowering one's moral standards as an educator (let's say for the sake of argument that it is morally preferable to avoid premarital sex) because other people are expected to have low moral standards is a form of giving up on morality. Shouldn't the moral high ground be presented and stressed, even if it is not what most people will live up to? If it isn't presented, then hasn't one failed as an educator?

    Feel free to respond to that notion.


    eudaimonia,

    Mark
     
  12. Kungfuzed

    Kungfuzed Student Nurse

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    But teaching safety and responsibility is the moral high ground. Teachings against fornication are based solely on "because God says so", there is no defense other than to quote scripture and quote statistics on teen pregnancy and STDs as evidence that the act itself is intrinsically evil.
     
  13. eudaimonia

    eudaimonia Fellowship of Reason

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    I agree completely, but I asked you to assume for the sake of argument that premarital sex actually is immoral. At least then we may see why people who think this way are unconvinced by Sunstone's argument.


    eudaimonia,

    Mark
     
  14. wednesday

    wednesday Jesus

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    No matter what you cant stop pre-maritial sex so the church might as wlel give up and start educating people properly and inform them of the risks. "because god says no" just doesnt cut it anymore.
     
  15. Engyo

    Engyo Prince of Dorkness!

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    I'm a lot more interested in how many Americans are having post-marital sex. That seems to me to be a much more significant statistic.
     
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  16. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    You mean immediately after the service? or as part of the service?
     
  17. Ever learning

    Ever learning Active Member

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    I think teaching safety and responsibility is the right way to go about things. That does not mean that everybody who hears about it is going to run out and have sex. I certainly did teach my kids, they know bout the dangers out there and how to take precaution. However they also know about not having to give in to peer preassure and that it´s okay to wait.
     
  18. Engyo

    Engyo Prince of Dorkness!

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    Actually, more like about 5 years on..................
     
  19. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    I don't see anything conflicting in teaching both; it's just a matter of being prepared in case the kids don't behave as you hope. It's kinda like the old saying: "pray for sunshine, but bring your umbrella."

    Also, I don't think there's any real moral high ground in using a course of action that has proven to be ineffective at acheiving its purported goal.
     
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  20. Hacker

    Hacker Well-Known Member

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    Yes Sunstone, why not just prepare them for the truth. No matter what religion teaches, it is NOT going to stop teens from having sex, LOL.:eek: What is most crucially important for them to know is the consequences of sex...like pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases. More emphasis should be placed in warning teens about how much their life will change as a result of pregnancy. Or what symptoms thay will have as a result from an STD. I have to say, being 29 years old, I can remember being taught in health class the responsibility of being a parent. They had us watch a movie called "Daddy:lol:D. Just google "Daddy" if your curious and throw in teen pregnancy. It was made in 1987.
    And that was all I needed to see personally, and I never got pregnant as a teen, thank goodness for my education.

    As for STD's, they INTSTILLED what the results of these diseases can have on one's life. It sure worked for me.:p They even offered us condoms, lol. And I think that each school should teach safe sex, and not to condemn it as if it's bad, because kids will only rebell and be defiant, their hormones are raging and depending on how much they are conditioned by religion/family upbringing will be a reflection of how they will deal with it. It's going to happen regardless, however, you will have the devout religious ones and that is fine. I have a daughter to raise in this world and my philosophy is to be open with her about what is expected when she approaches high school or when the hormones start kicking in. She will be aware (by me) of how boys are, how she is going to feel if she likes somebody, to not be ashamed and feel free to ask me about anything. In other words, I am going to be her best friend. I will even tell her about my experiences as a teen, to let her know that how she is feeling is normal, but to play it safe and be a lady.
    But to add my two cents in, religion would have nothing to do with teenage sex and it's decline, just my personal opinion.)(
     
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