Premarital Sex vs. Homosexuality

[Pegg]

If we take Jesus words to heart we would know that Jesus has no problems with people judging others so long as the judger is not a hypocrite.

you cant judge and NOT be a hypocrite.

we should only be judging ourselves and our own actions because in the end it is God who will pass the final judgement and his judgements are always perfect...ours are not.

 

[jml03]

I suppose thats sort of right, but I don't want to be judging anyone. I can't say I live my life like a saint, although I am better than I was. It does say "Stop judging" but reading further, if one does.... Just better off not to.

That's easier said than done. You see some little kid too close to the street - you think "where is their mother?, How can she let them be that close to the street?" - and so on. In my case, my sister in law sleeps all the time, doesn't feed the kids til 9pm, laundry piled everywhere, they wake up and take off while she sleeps, etc. VERY hard not to judge her & tell her what she's doing wrong.

Needless to say, I'm a work in progress.

 

[Autodidact]

I'm not questioning, or saying anything about your lifestyle. What I meant by my comment was that you were flat out coming across as rude. I can disagree with you without being rude or crass or inconsiderate to your feelings.

Maybe I misunderstood you though?

Oh, I see, yes, I took you wrong. What did you think was rude, when I said:

No, I take Christians one at a time, as my Jewish mother taught me. I take you as prejudiced against gay people.

?

 

[jml03]

You read my mind. It's like you know me!

 

[Pegg]

I suppose thats sort of right, but I don't want to be judging anyone. I can't say I live my life like a saint, although I am better than I was. It does say "Stop judging" but reading further, if one does.... Just better off not to.

That's easier said than done. You see some little kid too close to the street - you think "where is their mother?, How can she let them be that close to the street?" - and so on. In my case, my sister in law sleeps all the time, doesn't feed the kids til 9pm, laundry piled everywhere, they wake up and take off while she sleeps, etc. VERY hard not to judge her & tell her what she's doing wrong.

Needless to say, I'm a work in progress.

i guess we need to develop the attitude of 'live and let live'

God has his standards and its up to us as individual to live by those standards...but not everyone will and there is not a lot we can do about it. God doesnt force anyone to live by his standards and nor can we.

thats not to say that you couldnt councel someone about their actions and show them a better way...if done in a loving way of course. Its as the saying goes, we can lead a horse to water - but we cant make it drink.

 

[McBell]

you cant judge and NOT be a hypocrite.

YOU might not be able to to, but your being unable to do something does not make that something impossible for everyone to do.

we should only be judging ourselves and our own actions because in the end it is God who will pass the final judgement and his judgements are always perfect...ours are not.

Personal opinion not supported by the Bible.

 

[Pegg]

Personal opinion not supported by the Bible.

I think there is scriptural reason to believe that we should only be judging ourselves and our own actions.
Jesus words are strong at Luke 6:37 "“Moreover, stop judging, and YOU will by no means be judged; and stop condemning, and YOU will by no means be condemned. Keep on releasing, and YOU will be released" So itsreally in our best interest not to judge each other...if we show mercy, God will show us mercy.

There is also the Apostle Pauls words at Romans 14:10-12
“Why do you judge your brother? Or why do you also look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God...each one will render an account for himself to God"

And the reason why only God should judge anyone is found at
1 Samuel 16:7
“Do not look at his appearance and at the height of his stature, for I have rejected him. For not the way man sees [is the way God sees], because mere man sees what appears to the eyes; but as for Jehovah, he sees what the heart is."His judgements are based on all the extenuating circumstances that we may not see...he takes our emotional state into consideration, he can see what motivated someone to sin and why they did it...these are aspects that we cannot see. Things are not so black and white to God...he sees all the grey areas and judges accordingly.

 

[McBell]

I think there is scriptural reason to believe that we should only be judging ourselves and our own actions.
Jesus words are strong at Luke 6:37 "“Moreover, stop judging, and YOU will by no means be judged; and stop condemning, and YOU will by no means be condemned. Keep on releasing, and YOU will be released" So itsreally in our best interest not to judge each other...if we show mercy, God will show us mercy.

There is also the Apostle Pauls words at Romans 14:10-12
“Why do you judge your brother? Or why do you also look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God...each one will render an account for himself to God"

And the reason why only God should judge anyone is found at
1 Samuel 16:7
“Do not look at his appearance and at the height of his stature, for I have rejected him. For not the way man sees [is the way God sees], because mere man sees what appears to the eyes; but as for Jehovah, he sees what the heart is."His judgements are based on all the extenuating circumstances that we may not see...he takes our emotional state into consideration, he can see what motivated someone to sin and why they did it...these are aspects that we cannot see. Things are not so black and white to God...he sees all the grey areas and judges accordingly.

John 7:24
"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."
​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Here Christians are flat out told to judge with righteous judment
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Amos 5:14-15[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken. Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph." [/FONT]
​

This would be rather difficult if you are not allowed to judge good from evil....

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Malachi 3:18: [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] "Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not."[/FONT]
​

I wonder how one is to discern without making judgment...

Galations 6:1
"Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted."
​

Be rather difficult to restore another in a spirit of gentleness if one refuses to judge them in the first place...

So your "Judge no one other than yourself" is NOT Biblical.

 

[Pegg]

John 7:24
"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."
​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Here Christians are flat out told to judge with righteous judment
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Amos 5:14-15[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken. Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph." [/FONT]
​

This would be rather difficult if you are not allowed to judge good from evil....

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Malachi 3:18: [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] "Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not."[/FONT]
​

I wonder how one is to discern without making judgment...

Galations 6:1
"Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted."
​

Be rather difficult to restore another in a spirit of gentleness if one refuses to judge them in the first place...

So your "Judge no one other than yourself" is NOT Biblical.

restoring someone indicates that you are attempting to help them...you are not passing judgement on them but rather helping them to see their own error and hopefully return to God.

thats different to judging a person for their actions and condemning them.

I think all those scriptures highlight that a person who is being led by Gods laws will be able to clearly see the difference between sinful acts and righteous acts. But none of them tell us to judge and condemn anyone.

that first scripture in John was the instance when a crowd had condemned Jesus for healing a man on the sabbath...he told them to judge in righteousness rather then outward appearance. We should likewise do that with our fellow man but as we cannot see all the reasons behind a persons actions, its also likely that we will not judge righteously just as those Jews could not.

 

[McBell]

restoring someone indicates that you are attempting to help them...you are not passing judgement on them but rather helping them to see their own error and hopefully return to God.

You still have to make judgments on them in order to determine that they need to be "restored" in the first place.

thats different to judging a person for their actions and condemning them.

You are correct.
But then, I never once mentioned anything about condemning any one.
Nice strawman though.

I think all those scriptures highlight that a person who is being led by Gods laws will be able to clearly see the difference between sinful acts and righteous acts. But none of them tell us to judge and condemn anyone.

Irrelevant strawman.

that first scripture in John was the instance when a crowd had condemned Jesus for healing a man on the sabbath...he told them to judge in righteousness rather then outward appearance. We should likewise do that with our fellow man but as we cannot see all the reasons behind a persons actions, its also likely that we will not judge righteously just as those Jews could not.

So you preach the play it safe sermon even though it goes against what the Bible says?
To each their own.

 

[Autodidact]

You read my mind. It's like you know me!

You may be right. I'm going back through the thread and not finding any posts by you matching my description. Maybe I was confusing you with someone else. Sorry, please accept my apologies. Glad we cleared it up.