Premarital sex and Christianity

[Glaurung]

Well, I don't believe fornication is a sin. For example two swingers are not sinners, in my opinion. Sin is when you hurt your neighbor. I can't see how an orgy can damage me or anyone else.

Sin is the failure to live up to the moral standards expected by God. Pre and extra-marital sex are violations of that standard whether you like it or not. You simply cannot rationalise this away just because you find it inconvenient.

Yes, Christianity makes some harsh moral demands. It demands that you strive for moral perfection regardless of how unobtainable it is. This is why God is always readily merciful.

 

[Sleeppy]

Pre-marital sex devalues marriage/commitment.. Men usually/naturally aren't looking to commit to one sexual partner. So, when there are an abundance of females willing to have pre-marital sex, men don't have that sexual incentive to commit, and women wonder why they're accumulating so many sexual partners not willing to commit. Pre-marital sex also promotes cheating, divorce, single parenting, and the greater potential for diseases to spread.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Pre-marital sex devalues marriage/commitment.. Men usually/naturally aren't looking to commit to one sexual partner. So, when there are an abundance of females willing to have pre-marital sex, men don't have that sexual incentive to commit, and women wonder why they're accumulating so many sexual partners not willing to commit. Pre-marital sex also promotes cheating, divorce, single parenting, and the greater potential for diseases to spread.

Spoken like a true misogynist. Congrats on your misogyny.

No one wants to buy a used car right, you would rather break in a new car right. New cars are more valuable than used cars.

 

[Glaurung]

Obviously the prohibition against fornication applies to men as well. And the idea that men only enter into marriage for the sake of sex is kind of offensive. We are capable of legitimate love for another person and we do indeed desire long term relationships.

 

[Sleeppy]

Spoken like a true misogynist. Congrats on your misogyny.

No one wants to buy a used car right, you would rather break in a new car right. New cars are more valuable than used cars.

Not sure how I can possibly be considered a misogynist, at all. Have as many partners as you like, when you like. I don't care to stop you. You should know the consequences of your own actions.

 

[Sleeppy]

Obviously the prohibition against fornication applies to men as well. And the idea that men only enter into marriage for the sake of sex is kind of offensive. We are capable of legitimate love for another person.

Take note everyone!!-- I did not say sex was the only reason men get married. It is an incentive, like all the other emotions which come into play.

 

[Glaurung]

Take note everyone!!-- I did not say sex was the only reason men get married. It is an incentive, like all the other emotions which come into play.

You've implied that the sexual immorality of women is to blame for the lack of incentive for men to enter into monogamous relationships. No, we as a culture are to blame for the rather toxic culture when it comes to sex, it's not 'loose women'

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't think there is anything wrong with a committed couple having sex before marriage. There's nothing wrong with waiting, either.But some couples have to have sex before marriage because it's not legal for them to be married (gays and lesbians). So do I think that you're damned if you make love with your beloved without a marriage license? No.

To me, the real problem is promiscuity.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Not sure how I can possibly be considered a misogynist, at all. Have as many partners as you like, when you like. I don't care to stop you. You should know the consequences of your own actions.

Well indicating that a woman's value is her vagina is pretty misogynistic.

 

[Estro Felino]

Sin is the failure to live up to the moral standards expected by God. Pre and extra-marital sex are violations of that standard whether you like it or not. You simply cannot rationalise this away just because you find it inconvenient.

Yes, Christianity makes some harsh moral demands. It demands that you strive for moral perfection regardless of how unobtainable it is. This is why God is always readily merciful.

Christianity is not Buddhism. Christianity's goal is not the moral perfection of individuals. Individualism is devilish, indeed. The goal of Christianity is the good of mankind, that is, our personal goals are to match with the good of mankind. If they don't, you are sinning.

 

[Sleeppy]

You've implied that the sexual immorality of women is to blame for the lack of incentive for men to enter into monogamous relationships. No, we as a culture are to blame for the rather toxic culture when it comes to sex, it's not 'loose women'

Actually, I blamed both sexes. I didn't use the words 'sexual immorality', or the phrase 'loose women'-- you did. If men and women want to have multiple partners, I'm not able to stop them. You don't need to acknowledge anything I'm saying. If you're satisfied with your way of living, so be it.

 

[ChristineES]

If people don't want to be dictated to about having sex before marriage, then wouldn't people not want to be dictated to about not having sex before marriage?

 

[Glaurung]

Christianity is not Buddhism. Christianity's goal is not the moral perfection of individuals. Individualism is devilish, indeed. The goal of Christianity is the good of mankind, that is, our personal goals are to match the good of mankind. If they don't, you are sinning.

Christianity's goal is the salvation of the individual by obtaining grace through the recognition of Christ's sacrifice on the cross. This recognition also necessitates living a moral life which includes avoiding sin.

Buddhism's goal is to escape the circle of death and rebirth by achieving enlightenment, which is done by overcoming attachment to the illusory world perpetuated by karma. Now that we've established that I don't think you can accuse me of having them confused.

Now, there is nothing inherently sinful about sexual desire. But, the sexual act is to be kept within the confines of a sanctified marriage because it is within marriage that sex has its moral purpose intended by God. Of course, like every issue, there's a lot of grey. But to outright assert the moral permissiveness of fornication is a rejection of the moral framework of Christian teaching. You cannot be in good Christian standing and hold to the position you do.

And this overlooking your unabashed and open heresy whilst still declaring yourself Catholic. You can't have it both ways. There's nothing I can say that's going to change your views. I'm simply pointing out that they are in unquestionable contradiction to the values of the religion you claim to hold.

 

[Estro Felino]

Christianity's goal is the salvation of the individual by obtaining grace through the recognition of Christ's sacrifice on the cross.
.

Yes, That's what Protestants say. And that's what I consider the wrongest thing ever. Because you get salvation by doing good. And when I say doing good things, I don't mean individualistic selfish things (that is, thinking of personal profit), but I mean altruistic things, like charity. You get your salvation through works

This recognition also necessitates living a moral life which includes avoiding sin.
.

Protestants tend to think that damaging the neighbor is less grave than damaging oneself. It is quite the opposite: suicide will always be forgiven. Homicide or hoaxes won't.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

I don't see what the big deal is with virginity. It just sort some of Patriarchy thing. And it is a standard that often is not held to the male.

Although I don't normally hop on the "patriarchy" bandwagon. CynthiaCypher is right. There is an unfortunate sexual double standard between men and women. Promiscuous males are praised, while promiscuous females are shamed and belittled. I've yet to hear about men getting ****-shamed and called "whores."

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Although I don't normally hop on the "patriarchy" bandwagon. CynthiaCypher is right. There is an unfortunate sexual double standard between men and women. Promiscuous males are praised, while promiscuous females are shamed and belittled. I've yet to hear about men getting ****-shamed and called "whores."

Oh you know how it is, boys will be boys and need to sow some wild oats before they settle down and have a family.

 

[Glaurung]

Yes, That's what Protestants say.

That is what all orthodox Christians say. What is debated is the relationship we have with God's grace; whether it is freely offered to all human beings, (which I and most Christians assert) or ordained only to a chosen elect (the Calvinist position). There is no debate concerning the human dependence on God for salvation.

Protestants tend to think that damaging the neighbor is less grave than damaging oneself.

Protestants are not a single group. Sin comes in degrees. Raping someone would be a graver sin than fornication for example.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

I want to know how a marriage is devalued if a girl is not a virgin when she enters into it. Can someone explain that one to me?

 

[Glaurung]

I want to know how a marriage is devalued if a girl is not a virgin when she enters into it. Can someone explain that one to me?

It's not. The act of pre-martial sex regardless of your gender is sinful. But the sinfulness of pre-martial sex has no baring on the validity or value of a marriage.

 

[Sleeppy]

I want to know how a marriage is devalued if a girl is not a virgin when she enters into it. Can someone explain that one to me?

It'd be a case by case basis.. Who's to tell your significant other whether to devalue you because you're not a virgin before marriage? He/she would need to make that decision.