Premarital sex and Christianity

[Muffled]

Do you really want to use Mosaic Law as a example what marriage should be like? Girls as young as twelve where often sold to much older males against their will and their precious virginity was then taken by force i.e they were raped by their groom. Is this the cultural view of marriage you want to uphold as ideal?

I don't know what book you are reading but I believe I never saw any such thing in the law of Moses.

Laws are meant to help people not hurt them. The reality is that sex without commitment (maaarrige) leads to unwed mothers and that is rampant in this country today.

 

[Muffled]

Yes, I read it, too. I believe it is in Leviticus, although I might be mistaken.

In that case when the person went to sleep with another person I believe they committed adultery and one gets the fun concept of not knowing who the father of the child could be unless a DNA test is done of course but that wasn't the case a few years back.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Not “are” married, but must marry, when rape is involved.

28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)
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That is absolutely disgusting.

 

[Sleeppy]

That is absolutely disgusting.

It would also depend on your father.. Your father could refuse to marry you (probably more often than not), but would still be compensated financially. Keep in mind, this was instituted thousands of years ago; it likely doesn't work this way today. Today, rapists are more likely to be punished not only financially, but in every other available manner, as well-- prison, for instance.

CMike might be able to clarify.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

It would also depend on your father.. Your father could refuse to marry you (probably more often than not), but would still be compensated financially. Keep in mind, this was instituted thousands of years ago; it likely doesn't work this way today. Today, rapists are more likely to be punished not only financially, but in every other available manner, as well-- prison, for instance.

CMike might be able to clarify.

I don't need clarification. That is a disgusting and evil custom. There is no justification for it at all.

 

[sojourner]

Then why American parents prevent their teenage children from having sex?
The truth is that American teenagers are really beautiful, so they easily feel strongly attracted to each other, and they are tempted to have sex.
Maybe that's the reason why their parents try to stop them at any cost: because the chances they have to have sex are so many.

In Italy young teenagers are really ugly (because of hormones level changing) so the chances they have to have sex are poor. Because they feel disgusted by each other.
That's why Italian teenagers are the ones who have sex the least in Europe.
There are a lot of 25 year old women who are still virgins in Italy.
That's why their parents don't try to stop them: au contraire, in many cases they even push them to have sex because their chances are not so many. They don't want their children to get depressed

Part of the reason why teenagers are prevented from having sex is that they are children and are not either responsible for their actions, which may harm themselves and others, nor capable of processing and handling responsibly the emotional aspects to which a sexual relationship exposes them. Further, there is the distinct possibility of pregnancy, for which children are not equipped to take responsibility.

 

[Estro Felino]

Part of the reason why teenagers are prevented from having sex is that they are children and are not either responsible for their actions, which may harm themselves and others, nor capable of processing and handling responsibly the emotional aspects to which a sexual relationship exposes them. Further, there is the distinct possibility of pregnancy, for which children are not equipped to take responsibility.

Yes, because American teenagers are gorgeous. I remember that I had a friend, Val, who was still a virgin when she was 21. Well, she was not that pretty, she had no so so many admirers. I was really worried about her; I desperately tried to find her a boyfriend, but I didn't succeed. Finally when she turned 23, she had her first time. It was a relief. And their parents were relieved too.

We Italians talk about sex a lot, but we don't do it that often.
From the Guardian:
Perhaps more shockingly, Italian men - dark, suave and sophisticated, and the supposed dream lover of every British woman - are revealed as the pandas of the Continent.
Their reputation as the world's hottest sex machines is shattered by a barrage of humbling statistics that reveal the naked truth: they start having sex late, they don't have it often, and when they do it's all over in the blink of an eye. In fact, Italians are the least sexually active people in Europe, and when they do have sex, it lasts the shortest time.


source:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/jun/18/anthonybrowne.theobserver1

 

[CMike]

It would also depend on your father.. Your father could refuse to marry you (probably more often than not), but would still be compensated financially. Keep in mind, this was instituted thousands of years ago; it likely doesn't work this way today. Today, rapists are more likely to be punished not only financially, but in every other available manner, as well-- prison, for instance.

CMike might be able to clarify.

I'll be happy to oblige.

In a jewish marriage the husband has great reponsibility towarde the wife. He has to provide for his wife. In those days that was rough.

It doesn't say that the girl must marry the man.

So it's saying that if someone rapes a young lady who is a virgin and has sex with her, he know has taken a great responsibility upon himself. He has to provide for her. He can't divorce her, so he must provide for her for the rest of his life.

In those days that was a major responsiblity.

Once again, it doesn't say that she must marry him.

 

[CMike]

I don't need clarification. That is a disgusting and evil custom. There is no justification for it at all.

That's because you refuse to understand the context and the meaning.

That is not your own ignorance, but the refusal to acknowledg the meaning when it's told to you.

 

[Sleeppy]

I'll be happy to oblige.

In a jewish marriage the husband has great reponsibility towarde the wife. He has to provide for his wife. In those days that was rough.

It doesn't say that the girl must marry the man.

So it's saying that if someone rapes a young lady who is a virgin and has sex with her, he know has taken a great responsibility upon himself. He has to provide for her. He can't divorce her, so he must provide for her for the rest of his life.

In those days that was a major responsiblity.

Once again, it doesn't say that she must marry him.

Has the application of this law changed at all, according to modern dynamics?

 

[dgirl1986]

Not “are” married, but must marry, when rape is involved.

28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)
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Not the verse I was thinking of at all.

 

[CMike]

Has the application of this law changed at all, according to modern dynamics?

Yes, rape isn't allowed.

It was never condoned. However, thousands of years ago society was different.

The Torah tried to make it as humane as possible even though society was much different.

 

[Sleeppy]

Yes, rape isn't allowed.

It was never condoned. However, thousands of years ago society was different.

The Torah tried to make it as humane as possible even though society was much different.

Is the consequence of rape different, nowadays? In what ways?

 

[Pegg]

Is the consequence of rape different, nowadays? In what ways?

the difference is that in the hebrew language, there is several words which are translated as 'rape' but do not mean rape as we know it.

Seduction is translated as rape in the bible. When you think of seduction, what does it mean to you? is it rape as in violently forced intercourse?

or does it mean a man has smooth talked a woman into his bed?

 

[dgirl1986]

the difference is that in the hebrew language, there is several words which are translated as 'rape' but do not mean rape as we know it.

Seduction is translated as rape in the bible. When you think of seduction, what does it mean to you? is it rape as in violently forced intercourse?

or does it mean a man has smooth talked a woman into his bed?

Seduction seems more like smooth persuation.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

well...there are some Christians (especially women) who claim that premarital sex is against Christian teachings. So says the Bible.

Well...as a Christian I believe that sex between two consenting adults is never a sin.
When two young people hopelessly fall in love with each other....the sin would be not making love. Because it would be the most romantic thing ever (like Romeo and Juliet)

By the way, waiting until the marriage is absolutely non-romantic.

I think the Christian can counter your point by saying that Christians are supposed to follow what Scripture mentions rather than personal beliefs. And I'd counter by asking what is "sex" because it doesn't seem that the Bible writers classified sex in the same way that we do. Girl-girl sex nowadays was not considered to be sex by biblical writers which is one reason I question what was sex to Moses? For now, I've only seen that the Bible writers refers to hetero sexual intercourse as being sex and nothing beyond that.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Yes, rape isn't allowed.

It was never condoned. However, thousands of years ago society was different.

The Torah tried to make it as humane as possible even though society was much different.

So tell me how do you make rape more "humane"?