Possession

[amorphous_constellation]

Looking at the passage slower all it seems to mean to me is this: they tried to bind him before and failed, gave up, and he was always crying out and/or cutting himself with stones.

And he could break lose of the bonds how : did he receive jolts of metaphysical power from the demons, that would overlay the muscular action, or did he actually have additional tendons on his ligaments?

This part of the passage seems have an analog with a variety of actual conditions that modern science might identify, but I am unaware that supernatural strength is ever a part of those ailments. But I suppose I expect you to argue that this is actual demon possession, and that it is different than any of those. Or is it?

History has examples of descriptions being like this, before science more accurately describes what really happened. For example, I read an article the other day on how people thought rare roses with certain patterns were magical a few hundred years ago, but modern science clearly identified a virus at work

do not know what he ate if he ate at all, and I presume he was away from civilization (mostly, a graveyard is sort of a border-area)

That would be an additional extra-physiological characteristic, to achieve feats of power and working biology without sustenance. One would think at least, that the character would require copious protein

because of the vast amount of demons that were in him and they prefer to be in such a place (hence the desert fathers constant battles with demons in the middle of nowhere).

Likely within earshot of a village of some kind, since they could hear the moaning. Though it is interesting that you say that he is driven away from people, because that mode of living would characterize many generations of christian ascetics. The anchorites, the stylites, monks who lived alone in caves and islands.

And they go do and that, not because of demons I don't think, but because he takes them away from all kinds of human temptation. No solitary monk needed to worry about chasing money, or satisfying lust - he was far away from any of that, purposely

I think the nature of his isolation is plenty unclear. It could be due to the influence of the plurality (more than one involved here?) of demons, or it could be choice of the tenuous balanced human within the character (this seems to get kind of jungian). Or the ostracization might be coming from the mainstream community itself.

But we definitely have different senses for what is fantastic or not, to me this is entirely believable.

I think maybe it is metaphorically useful, I suppose. But if I am going to believe the story for literal fact, I might as well believe the stuff I hear on coast to coast, for example. As I was going to bed yesterday they were talking about 'skinwalker ranch,' where a scruffy hyena/dog creature with a flattish low body was playing with a cow, then it disappeared into thin air like a phantom.

 

[Lain]

1) And he could break lose of the bonds how : did he receive jolts of metaphysical power from the demons, that would overlay the muscular action, or did he actually have additional tendons on his ligaments? This part of the passage seems have an analog with a variety of actual conditions that modern science might identify, but I am unaware that supernatural strength is ever a part of those ailments. But I suppose I expect you to argue that this is actual demon possession, and that it is different than any of those. Or is it?

History has examples of descriptions being like this, before science more accurately describes what really happened. For example, I read an article the other day on how people thought rare roses with certain patterns were magical a few hundred years ago, but modern science clearly identified a virus at work

2) That would be an additional extra-physiological characteristic, to achieve feats of power and working biology without sustenance. One would think at least, that the character would require copious protein

3) Likely within earshot of a village of some kind, since they could hear the moaning. Though it is interesting that you say that he is driven away from people, because that mode of living would characterize many generations of christian ascetics. The anchorites, the stylites, monks who lived alone in caves and islands.

And they go do and that, not because of demons I don't think, but because he takes them away from all kinds of human temptation. No solitary monk needed to worry about chasing money, or satisfying lust - he was far away from any of that, purposely

I think the nature of his isolation is plenty unclear. It could be due to the influence of the plurality (more than one involved here?) of demons, or it could be choice of the tenuous balanced human within the character (this seems to get kind of jungian). Or the ostracization might be coming from the mainstream community itself.

4) I think maybe it is metaphorically useful, I suppose. But if I am going to believe the story for literal fact, I might as well believe the stuff I hear on coast to coast, for example. As I was going to bed yesterday they were talking about 'skinwalker ranch,' where a scruffy hyena/dog creature with a flattish low body was playing with a cow, then it disappeared into thin air like a phantom.

Added numbers to your post and removed spaces from where quotes were for clarity so it is clear what part I am responding to.

1) I think it was preternatural strength, I would not expect physical changes in his body.
2) If he truly did not eat anything then I would assume this also was preternatural from the demon.
3) Indeed, "solitude is where God is found" (one of the extremely few good videos these guys ever put out, the rest is trash don't even consider it), and the Holy Spirit drove Jesus out into the wilderness to do an honor trial.
4) I consider ghosts and such to be very possible and other strange phenomena, I mainly ignore claims of them though as it has no bearing on my life, but if I saw a thing I would not be surprised or think it to be that unusual. But Catholicism does have a long history of these sorts of things, see the Purgatory Museum at the Vatican which is one common Catholic explanation for ghosts.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

1) I think it was preternatural strength, I would not expect physical changes in his body.
2) If he truly did not eat anything then I would assume this also was preternatural from the demon.

4) I consider ghosts and such to be very possible and other strange phenomena, I mainly ignore claims of them though as it has no bearing on my life, but if I saw a thing I would not be surprised or think it to be that unusual.

I see. So the demons, or demon, within, would convey the possessed human with the purely metaphysical strength to smash off shackles etc. Interesting to note at this juncture, is the ontological difference between the supposed power of the possessed, and the supposed power of the faithful. Jesus would say after all, that you could move a mountain with faith. The possessed however, in contrast, do not have their power stem from a concentration in faith, at least from I can gather

So all of this represents, in our modern age, phenomena that you need to have faith in - you need faith to come to believe than any of this can occur. That is because there were no cameras rolling, you are working solely off of a bit of recorded script, involving writers and characters you cannot visualize.

Imagine for a moment, an alternate story to the story you cited. Ok let's say that this story takes place in the 1st century. Few people can write or reason well. There is a village. There is an unfortunate soul there who is prone to psychotic episodes, maybe he is severely schizophrenic, or something. So things happen, and story develops surrounding this person. How would the story that develops, in that historical context, differ in accuracy from the one in the Bible

3) Indeed, "solitude is where God is found" (one of the extremely few good videos these guys ever put out, the rest is trash don't even consider it), and the Holy Spirit drove Jesus out into the wilderness to do an honor trial.

So the interesting thing about the scene where he is isolated in the desert, and about many of stories of the 'possessed,' or about the Christian monastic tradition, is that all of this is downstream of behavior that is far older. If you look in various parts of the 'golden bough' book for example, it becomes apparent that cultures far and wide used isolation as a sort of spiritual catalyst. It is anthropological behavior that is probably like 100,000 years old. I think the new testament is trying to piece together why that might be, in its variety

 

[rational experiences]

We Baha'is don't believe in demons or a literal devil. The devil is the lower animal ego part of oneself. Nothing to prove that, just stating the Baha'i belief.

The trouble with human science explanation is terming a human an animal beast or devil inferred.

Allows the satanic scientist to claim he is correct.

We are biological and chemical only a human.

Biological life forms only prove we share some same chemicals. An animal is not anything like our body or consciousness.

When our chemical brain by theist human designer machine caused irradiation above us fallout by changing the ground mass below us. AI feedback owns every natural living body attacked.

Shares the attack on all life.

It forms images and voices as it water cools. Heavy metal brain change is then forced to hear it. It affects behaviours as it interferes with behaviour innate to natural.

Is not any animal expression.

 

[Yerda]

I've had a few spirits influence my behaviour over the years. Mostly whiskey.

Sorry, couldn't help myself. I don't believe in demons in the literal sense so I don't believe in demonic possession. As a general rule I'd say it's worthwhile categorising every recorded case of demonic possession as either mental illness or just clerical authorities being sadistic.

 

[sayak83]

Do you believe in demonic or any other kind of possession? What does your religion say about it? How can it be differentiated from mental illness?

No.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Do you believe in demonic or any other kind of possession? What does your religion say about it? How can it be differentiated from mental illness?

I got demons running through me … all through me. — Beetlejuice

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

There was no medicine in those days

Drug use is pretty ancient

 

[Moonjuice]

When a woman in my wife's family house (years ago) would fall to the ground and speak in a man's voice and it took 4 to 5 men to hold her down... it is a pretty slam dunk "possession".

Oh Ken...this is a pretty spectacular assertion. Slam dunk demonic possession? There is ZERO actual scientific evidence for the existence of "demons". Since there is no proof that "demons" exist, the idea that a woman rolling on the ground imitating a man's voice is "slam dunk demon possession" is ludicrous. Instead, what that actually shows is slam dunk proof of a woman rolling on the ground and speaking in a mans voice. Plain and simple. People who are not possessed are capable of rolling around on the ground. Speaking in a lower voice is easy, see Elizabeth Holmes of the now defunct Theranos for an example. Put those together and you do not have slam dunk demon possession.

 

[Kenny]

Oh Ken...this is a pretty spectacular assertion. Slam dunk demonic possession? There is ZERO actual scientific evidence for the existence of "demons". Since there is no proof that "demons" exist, the idea that a woman rolling on the ground imitating a man's voice is "slam dunk demon possession" is ludicrous. Instead, what that actually shows is slam dunk proof of a woman rolling on the ground and speaking in a mans voice. Plain and simple. People who are not possessed are capable of rolling around on the ground. Speaking in a lower voice is easy, see Elizabeth Holmes of the now defunct Theranos for an example. Put those together and you do not have slam dunk demon possession.

Yes... that is easy... but needing 5 men to hold her down doesn't make it as easy as you assert.

 

[metis]

Yes... that is easy... but needing 5 men to hold her down doesn't make it as easy as you assert.

"The Exorcist" still terrifies my wife and I even though it's a Hollywood production but is based on supposedly some true events.

Why does your Avatar do the same to me?

 

[exchemist]

Yes... that is easy... but needing 5 men to hold her down doesn't make it as easy as you assert.

Talk to a psychiatric nurse.

 

[Rival]

"The Exorcist" still terrifies my wife and I even though it's a Hollywood production but is based on supposedly some true events.

Why does your Avatar do the same to me?

It didn't scare me at all. I'm not sure what's meant to be so scary about it

 

[metis]

It didn't scare me at all. I'm not sure what's meant to be so scary about it

We saw it when it first came out, and on one of the talk shows they interviewed the priest that was mainly involved. Obviously, the movie was heavily Hollywoodized, but the real story was indeed something that got our attention, let me tell ya.

 

[Kenny]

"The Exorcist" still terrifies my wife and I even though it's a Hollywood production but is based on supposedly some true events.

Why does your Avatar do the same to me?

I saw that one... and I don't want to ever see it again!!! It's lasting effect has reached my avatar

 

[Kenny]

Talk to a psychiatric nurse.

Maybe they have demons under the treatment with drugs that don't cure?

 

[Rival]

Maybe they have demons under the treatment with drugs that don't cure?

This sounds like a song lyric.