Populist Xenophobia moves The Netherlands to the Right

[ImmortalFlame]

They let it happen once already, and then ran away.

Because we blame individuals for when their states fail. Makes perfect sense.

No, you are.

How am I? You're the one saying that coming from a particular nation means you MUST carry a particular culture.

I'm not suggesting they be denied anything based on country of origin.

Then why did you explicitly say it earlier? (with emphasis)

YOU: "It's not xenophobia for a society to want to protect and maintain it's successful way of life."
ME: "It is when you believe doing this requires denying the immigration rights of people based on their nationality."
YOU: "Not if it's the culture that comes with that national origin that is posing the threat. As it nearly always is."

I'm talking about what they do when they get to the their new homeland.

In vague terms relating to "resisting culture", despite the fact that you cannot elaborate on what that means. Forming enclaves? Cessation? Selling spicy food?

What are you referring to?

You need to read more clearly.

You literally argued in favour of denying people's immigration based on their country of origin. Read your posts above.

Yep, that's exactly what some of them are doing.

Where?

Please learn how to read better. Your 'hackles' seem to have gotten in the way of your eyes.

Please stop espousing ethno-nationalism and then running away when challenged. Kind of like your imaginary refugees. Not my fault your "failed argument" fell apart. Maybe if you had the backbone to defend it, you'd be better off?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

And you aren't reading my posts. You're just imagining that any opposition to your presumed righteousness is an assault on all humanity.

"How silly of you to interpret my arguments about denying people the basic right to immigrate and claim asylum based on their country of origin, and my position which necessarily equates national origin, ethnicity, culture and ideology, and my explicitly saying that I would prefer refugees stay in their own FAILED countries and most likely die fighting rather than come to other, SUCCESSFUL countries because they are POISON as being in any way, shape or form nationalist, xenophobic or racist."

Come off it. Nobody's gonna buy it.

 

[LadyJane]

Please read the posts, first. And try to respond to that. Not just imagine whatever triggers your ire and then send posts of into space.

"Silence is argument carried out by other means." - Che Guevara

 

[icehorse]

The use of cultural difference to promote racist ideas in contexts where 'biological' racism is considered socially unacceptable has been going on for decades, you're not fooling anyone (except perhaps, yourself.)

This strikes me as a grossly oversimplified, and therefore distorted argument. For example, if your culture is misogynistic, I do NOT care what color your skin is, I just do not want you to bring your misogyny into my country.

 

[icehorse]

"Excuse me, sir. I know you'd like to flee for your life to another country, and that this is well withing your rights and international law

Since when was immigration a right?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Since when was immigration a right?

The example I was using was right to ASYLUM, not immigration.

Article 18 - Right to asylum

fra.europa.eu

 

[Estro Felino]

Since when was immigration a right?

According to the leftist ideology, we can move 1 billion Africans to Europe. Because there is an unlimited right to migrate.

And us Europeans, we can move to Antarctica...to freeze to death.
But it's okay, that's what they want. That we die out.

 

[libre]

if your culture is misogynistic, I do NOT care what color your skin is, I just do not want you to bring your misogyny into my country.

I think people should be judged by the content of their character and not their homeland's governments and social systems.
It is wrong to generalize and discriminate based on country of origin . There are African, Asian and Arab feminists after all. Don't contribute to their erasure.

 

[icehorse]

I think people should be judged by the content of their character and not their homeland's governments and social systems.
It is wrong to generalize and discriminate based on country of origin . There are African, Asian and Arab feminists after all. Don't contribute to their erasure.

Does that mean you think immigrants (and refugees), ought to assimilate to the host country's culture?

 

[libre]

Does that mean you think immigrants (and refugees), ought to assimilate to the host country's culture?

Voluntary assimilation of immigrants is generally advantageous and the majority do.
If by 'ought to', you mean 'ought to be forced to', then I would say no. This is because my country has a recent history of genocidal policy in the name of cultural assimilation.

Who should the government force people to assimilate to culturally? English? French? Inuit?
It just makes no sense.

 

[icehorse]

Voluntary assimilation of immigrants is generally advantageous and the majority do.
If by 'ought to', you mean 'ought to be forced to', then I would say no. This is because my country has a recent history of genocidal policy in the name of cultural assimilation.

Who should the government force people to assimilate to culturally? English? French? Inuit?
It just makes no sense.

I'm guessing that you're talking about Canada? In any case, I think that policies for indigenous peoples should be distinct from policies for immigrants and refugees.

If Canada is the example, then I'd say immigrants and refugees will be joining Canadian culture, probably not going to live in an indigenous nation correct? And I think we can say that there IS a Canadian culture. Not perfectly uniform to be sure, but it still exists. So for example overt misogyny like forcing women to live in burlap sacks and be segregated from men should not be tolerated.

 

[libre]

I'm guessing that you're talking about Canada?

Indeed

If Canada is the example, then I'd say immigrants and refugees will be joining Canadian culture, probably not going to live in an indigenous nation correct? And I think we can say that there IS a Canadian culture. Not perfectly uniform to be sure, but it still exists.

I would agree with this generally, but the anglo/french nations are distinct.

So for example overt misogyny like forcing women to live in burlap sacks and be segregated from men should not be tolerated.

Our laws already cover such, no assimilationist policy would not be needed to prevent such.

 

[icehorse]

Our laws already cover such, no assimilationist policy would not be needed to prevent such.

Maybe a typo, I'm not quite sure I understand that sentence.

In any case I thought I'd heard that a lot of mosques in Canada force segregation between men and women?

 

[libre]

Maybe a typo, I'm not quite sure I understand that sentence.

My mistake, double negative.

In any case I thought I'd heard that a lot of mosques in Canada force segregation between men and women?

Toronto has over 12 Catholic 'gender-segregated' schools that receive funding from the government, so such practices are hardly outside of cultural norm here. No reason to make special prohibition for Mosques.

 

[PureX]

"How silly of you to interpret my arguments about denying people the basic right to immigrate and claim asylum based on their country of origin, and my position which necessarily equates national origin, ethnicity, culture and ideology, and my explicitly saying that I would prefer refugees stay in their own FAILED countries and most likely die fighting rather than come to other, SUCCESSFUL countries because they are POISON as being in any way, shape or form nationalist, xenophobic or racist."

Come off it. Nobody's gonna buy it.

You are fighting in your mind with someone other than me. So I will just leave you to it.

 

[PureX]

Asylum is a temporary untenable response. In the end it's about the refugees either going back to where they came from, or being integrated into the population where they are, now.

And that is the issue at hand ... integration. The host culture has the right to expect and demand integration. And to reject the creation of alien cultural enclaves within their borders.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Asylum is a temporary untenable response. In the end it's about the refugees either going back to where they came from, or being integrated into the population where they are, now.

And that is the issue at hand ... integration. The host culture has the right to expect and demand integration. And to reject the creation of alien cultural enclaves within their borders.

Okay, let's parse this out.

What constitutes an "alien cultural enclave"?

 

[PureX]

Okay, let's parse this out.

What constitutes an "alien cultural enclave"?

What part of that phrase aren't you understanding?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

What part of that phrase aren't you understanding?

Why can't you just be specific?

Is a Chinatown an "alien cultural enclave"?

 

[PureX]

Why can't you just be specific?

I was specific.

Is a Chinatown an "alien cultural enclave"?

What do you think?

See, I can play this game, too.