MonkeyFire
Well-Known Member
I think your the violent one, and not to superimpose your self on everyone.
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Pope Francis: "There Is No Hell"
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
I think your the violent one, and not to superimpose your self on everyone.
You misspelled you're. I won't bother trying to make any sense beyond that level with you.
Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
Well predestination at least seems pretty consistent with the Bible. That is this infidel's opinion...
faithofabraham
Member
The Pope is supposed to be the voice of God on earth....he can not separate that time, he is either the voice or he is not, meaning if he speaks all of the catholics are supposed to be listening.
And yes the Pope is onto something. Neither Hell or Heaven are places anyone gets to go to when they die. Hell is referenced usually to the death itself, the inability one has during death, or the final death at the time of judgement when those found not in the book of life are tossed into the lake of fire(to die not be tormented). On the other hand one does not go to heaven either. It is a physical place that God, Jesus, Angels and whatever else resides, but not us. After the judgement God brings down a physical building(dimensions are in revelations) and says that God himself will live with us on earth.
And yes the Pope is onto something. Neither Hell or Heaven are places anyone gets to go to when they die. Hell is referenced usually to the death itself, the inability one has during death, or the final death at the time of judgement when those found not in the book of life are tossed into the lake of fire(to die not be tormented). On the other hand one does not go to heaven either. It is a physical place that God, Jesus, Angels and whatever else resides, but not us. After the judgement God brings down a physical building(dimensions are in revelations) and says that God himself will live with us on earth.
“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?" -Matthew 7:16
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
That's not what Catholic theology teaches as the only certain pronouncements by a Pope is considered to be from God and that is when he speaks "ex cathedra" in conjunction with the bishops or during official church councils, again in conjunction with the bishops. These are both very rare occurrences, needless to say. However, even then the Church teaches that it's possible that he may not be correct on such announcements and, if so, he would need to removed.
Apologes
Active Member
I always find myself dumbfounded at the gullibility and overall misinformation circulating among laypeople when it comes to topics of faith.
In order to believe this story you'd have to believe that the pope has denounced a doctrine that has been consistently and infallibly embraced for centuries by the institution he represents, that has been established and reaffirmed as an unquestionable dogma and was defended against annihilationism (the view the article attributes to the pope) which was condemned as a heresy. Such a turn of events would cause huge shifts in the landscape of the catholic faith and we're supposed to believe that such a thing has happened in a brief comment during an obscure private meeting and then reported in a single article with no evidence what so ever backing it up, all the while the entirety of Vatican openly denies it while the pope himself hasn't shared anything about it with the general public.
Unless and until the Church officially denounces the doctrine with a clear and unified stance on the subject this article remains yet another misrepresentation of Catholicism and it's teachings.
In order to believe this story you'd have to believe that the pope has denounced a doctrine that has been consistently and infallibly embraced for centuries by the institution he represents, that has been established and reaffirmed as an unquestionable dogma and was defended against annihilationism (the view the article attributes to the pope) which was condemned as a heresy. Such a turn of events would cause huge shifts in the landscape of the catholic faith and we're supposed to believe that such a thing has happened in a brief comment during an obscure private meeting and then reported in a single article with no evidence what so ever backing it up, all the while the entirety of Vatican openly denies it while the pope himself hasn't shared anything about it with the general public.
Unless and until the Church officially denounces the doctrine with a clear and unified stance on the subject this article remains yet another misrepresentation of Catholicism and it's teachings.
Skwim
Veteran Member
So as a Christian who evidently has the inside track on papal pronouncements, just what does the Pope mean when he says,
"There is no hell . . . ." ?
.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
That maybe he's never been here at RF?
Jean Valjean
Member
In my research in religion, there exist several places that can be adressed as hell. Because of the theologicans doctrines to create hell. Gloomy winternights with neon light in the sky would be one of them. Vesuvio would be in connection with the burning sulfur lake. If we look at a third name of hell would be Gehenna. Gehenna is located 6 kilometers outside Jerusalem were jews sacrificed criminals, or sinners through passing through fire. Something that Moses has forbidden by the words "Thou shall not let your sons and daughters pass through fire".
I been documenting the first place Cristian authorities adress as hell, the gloomy winter nights with neon lights in the clouds. I documented it with a dictaphone, recording what I saw in wave and Mp3 files.
I plan to visit Israel when I got time and money for it. When i visit gehenna next time I will take a camera. But so far it is just a plan. I need money for the trip and the vacation, these days it is turist attraction like autschwitzh among the tomb Jesus was buried in and king David's and also the locations discribed in the bible. Christian authorities build up hell as the crematory and senatarium. That would be the proper idea were hell is real in the world.
I been documenting the first place Cristian authorities adress as hell, the gloomy winter nights with neon lights in the clouds. I documented it with a dictaphone, recording what I saw in wave and Mp3 files.
I plan to visit Israel when I got time and money for it. When i visit gehenna next time I will take a camera. But so far it is just a plan. I need money for the trip and the vacation, these days it is turist attraction like autschwitzh among the tomb Jesus was buried in and king David's and also the locations discribed in the bible. Christian authorities build up hell as the crematory and senatarium. That would be the proper idea were hell is real in the world.
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Tammie
Member
FaithofAbraham said:
Neither Hell or Heaven are places anyone gets to go to when they die. Hell is referenced usually to the death itself, the inability one has during death, or the final death at the time of judgement when those found not in the book of life are tossed into the lake of fire(to die not be tormented). On the other hand one does not go to heaven either. It is a physical place that God, Jesus, Angels and whatever else resides, but not us. After the judgement God brings down a physical building(dimensions are in revelations) and says that God himself will live with us on earth.
It is very seldom that someone is so well versed in the Word of God rather than repeating something that has been preached from the pulpits. No doctrine just straight truth!
Neither Hell or Heaven are places anyone gets to go to when they die. Hell is referenced usually to the death itself, the inability one has during death, or the final death at the time of judgement when those found not in the book of life are tossed into the lake of fire(to die not be tormented). On the other hand one does not go to heaven either. It is a physical place that God, Jesus, Angels and whatever else resides, but not us. After the judgement God brings down a physical building(dimensions are in revelations) and says that God himself will live with us on earth.
It is very seldom that someone is so well versed in the Word of God rather than repeating something that has been preached from the pulpits. No doctrine just straight truth!
Earthling
David Henson
Now if they could get that there is no immortal soul, trinity, rapture, that Jesus didn't die on a cross, that all good people don't go to heaven, mass, confession, Christmas, Easter . . .
Tammie
Member
RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:
Now if they could get that there is no immortal soul, trinity, rapture, that Jesus didn't die on a cross, that all good people don't go to heaven, mass, confession, Christmas, Easter . . .
This is a very loaded answer....so I am not sure where you are taking this.
Now if they could get that there is no immortal soul, trinity, rapture, that Jesus didn't die on a cross, that all good people don't go to heaven, mass, confession, Christmas, Easter . . .
This is a very loaded answer....so I am not sure where you are taking this.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
And you know this how? Please provide objectively-derived evidence for your supposed proof.
I don't believe any of it, but I certainly ain't going so far as to claim they can't exist.
Tammie
Member
Metus Said:
And you know this how? Please provide objectively-derived evidence for your supposed proof.
I don't believe any of it, but I certainly ain't going so far as to claim they can't exist.
On the Soul...I wasn't sure of what RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha meant because in our flesh bodies we don't have an immortal soul, but in the Resurrection we are promised this. In Matthew 10:28 -And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Trinity - The Holy Spirit was not a Father until he had a Son....so if the Holy Spirit and the Father are the same....how can there be three? There are so many more manifestations than these.
Rapture - I believe in only the Two Main Resurrections....although even though the bible does not use this word.....some will tell you that this is what they mean by calling it the rapture.
Heaven - We do not go there when we die. John 3:13 says this specifically. The New Jerusalem comes down from heaven. Also in Revelation 5:10 - And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Not to mention that God will dwell with us.
Mass & Confession - Do you know about the history of Indulgences, how they could be bought?
Christmas and Easter - Only if Easter is celebrated due to His Resurrection, otherwise it is pretty pagan all about fertility. No where in the bible does it tell us to celebrate Christ/Yeshua's birth....of which I,m not convinced in Scripture that he was born at this time...but I also choose not to.
Of course, if you know more than I do.....please let me know. I am open to learning?
And you know this how? Please provide objectively-derived evidence for your supposed proof.
I don't believe any of it, but I certainly ain't going so far as to claim they can't exist.
On the Soul...I wasn't sure of what RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha meant because in our flesh bodies we don't have an immortal soul, but in the Resurrection we are promised this. In Matthew 10:28 -And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Trinity - The Holy Spirit was not a Father until he had a Son....so if the Holy Spirit and the Father are the same....how can there be three? There are so many more manifestations than these.
Rapture - I believe in only the Two Main Resurrections....although even though the bible does not use this word.....some will tell you that this is what they mean by calling it the rapture.
Heaven - We do not go there when we die. John 3:13 says this specifically. The New Jerusalem comes down from heaven. Also in Revelation 5:10 - And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Not to mention that God will dwell with us.
Mass & Confession - Do you know about the history of Indulgences, how they could be bought?
Christmas and Easter - Only if Easter is celebrated due to His Resurrection, otherwise it is pretty pagan all about fertility. No where in the bible does it tell us to celebrate Christ/Yeshua's birth....of which I,m not convinced in Scripture that he was born at this time...but I also choose not to.
Of course, if you know more than I do.....please let me know. I am open to learning?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Indulgences have not been allowed in several hundred years, plus the CC decided during the Counter-Reformation that they were unethical because of being self-serving. Sacrifices have a long tradition in both Jewish and Christian tradition, and indulgences could be seen in that context but, frankly, they were being used to raise money, thus an unethical motive
Catholicism does not celebrate paganism in any way as that's forbidden under Canon Law.
"Christmas" (the mass of Christ) was put into the liturgical calendar to commemorate Jesus being given by God to the world, which is not in any way "pagan", and it is celebrated by most Christians worldwide, not just Catholics. December 25th was chosen by the Catholic Church, not as the date of his birth but as a day of celebration of Christ since people living in the Roman Empire had that day off for other reasons. The Orthodox use January 7th for their day of celebration.
If it bothers you to celebrate either, then let me recommend you not celebrate them. It's not compulsory in any church that I'm aware of.
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Tammie
Member
Metus said:
Indulgences have not been allowed in several hundred years, plus the CC decided during the Counter-Reformation that they were unethical because of being self-serving. Sacrifices have a long tradition in both Jewish and Christian tradition, and indulgences could be seen in that context but, frankly, they were being used to raise money, thus an unethical motive
That is not the point that it happened so many years ago and now they have corrected it. The point is that they seen the need to correct it. Now they are revealing that Hell does not exist and it does not...at least a forever tormenting hell that has been preached throughout time from the pulpits. I call this Merchandising, don't you?
I am still not really clear if Hell is only the grave or if it is the state of death (the memory perishing until the day of the 1st or 2nd Resurrection)
Isaiah 26:11-14 -LORD, when thy hand is lifted up, they will not see: but they shall see, and be ashamed for their envy at the people; yea, the fire of thine enemies shall devour them. LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us. O LORD our God, other lords beside thee have had dominion over us: but by thee only will we make mention of thy name. They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
As far as Christmas....isn't it strange that Satan and Santa have the same lettering but is changed or backwards. I think that anything that does not have to do with Christ/Yeshua on that day is pagan. If one does it unto the Lord, only the Lord can make it stand as Paul says...
Romans 14: 4-7 - Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
P.S. I have not been to a organized church for at least ten years. I have no doctrines or denomination. I have learned to look to the Word of God for everything....so I am not cutting down the Catholic church anymore than any other. If that offends yoy....that is something maybe you will need to search out for yourself. The truth does not need any defense.
Indulgences have not been allowed in several hundred years, plus the CC decided during the Counter-Reformation that they were unethical because of being self-serving. Sacrifices have a long tradition in both Jewish and Christian tradition, and indulgences could be seen in that context but, frankly, they were being used to raise money, thus an unethical motive
That is not the point that it happened so many years ago and now they have corrected it. The point is that they seen the need to correct it. Now they are revealing that Hell does not exist and it does not...at least a forever tormenting hell that has been preached throughout time from the pulpits. I call this Merchandising, don't you?
I am still not really clear if Hell is only the grave or if it is the state of death (the memory perishing until the day of the 1st or 2nd Resurrection)
Isaiah 26:11-14 -LORD, when thy hand is lifted up, they will not see: but they shall see, and be ashamed for their envy at the people; yea, the fire of thine enemies shall devour them. LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us. O LORD our God, other lords beside thee have had dominion over us: but by thee only will we make mention of thy name. They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
As far as Christmas....isn't it strange that Satan and Santa have the same lettering but is changed or backwards. I think that anything that does not have to do with Christ/Yeshua on that day is pagan. If one does it unto the Lord, only the Lord can make it stand as Paul says...
Romans 14: 4-7 - Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
P.S. I have not been to a organized church for at least ten years. I have no doctrines or denomination. I have learned to look to the Word of God for everything....so I am not cutting down the Catholic church anymore than any other. If that offends yoy....that is something maybe you will need to search out for yourself. The truth does not need any defense.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I've "searched" it out for five decades now, and I taught it for three decades, so your condescending is clearly noted-- and we're finished.
BTW, there is no provision in the Christian scriptures for those operating on their own w/o a congregation. Christianity never has been a "do your own thing" entity.
Take care.
Tammie
Member
Metus said:
I've "searched" it out for five decades now, and I taught it for three decades, so your condescending is clearly noted-- and we're finished.
BTW, there is no provision in the Christian scriptures for those operating on their own w/o a congregation. Christianity never has been a "do your own thing" entity.
Take care.
I don't believe it is in the Word of God that you have to belong to an organized church to believe what it says. Nor do I believe that it comes only by reading the Word of God to know the truth....but by understanding and a relationship of trust and faith in Him. So, you may be right.
We may be finished. By the way....I keep the Sabbath and have fellowship with others but not in an organized church. So...You are wrong again!
I've "searched" it out for five decades now, and I taught it for three decades, so your condescending is clearly noted-- and we're finished.
BTW, there is no provision in the Christian scriptures for those operating on their own w/o a congregation. Christianity never has been a "do your own thing" entity.
Take care.
I don't believe it is in the Word of God that you have to belong to an organized church to believe what it says. Nor do I believe that it comes only by reading the Word of God to know the truth....but by understanding and a relationship of trust and faith in Him. So, you may be right.
We may be finished. By the way....I keep the Sabbath and have fellowship with others but not in an organized church. So...You are wrong again!