Pope Francis: "There Is No Hell"

[Skwim]

"In another interview with his longtime atheist friend, Eugenio Scalfari, Pope Francis claims that Hell does not exist and that condemned souls just "disappear." This is a denial of the 2,000-year-old teaching of the Catholic Church about the reality of Hell and the eternal existence of the soul.

Scalfari says to the Pope, "Your Holiness, in our previous meeting you told me that our species will disappear in a certain moment and that God, still out of his creative force, will create new species. You have never spoken to me about the souls who died in sin and will go to hell to suffer it for eternity. You have however spoken to me of good souls, admitted to the contemplation of God. But what about bad souls? Where are they punished?"

Pope Francis says, "They are not punished, those who repent obtain the forgiveness of God and enter the rank of souls who contemplate him, but those who do not repent and cannot therefore be forgiven disappear. There is no hell, there is the disappearance of sinful souls."
source​

I know the Pope only speaks for Catholicism, but besides the comments from Catholics here, I'm interested in the responses of other Christians. Could the Pope be onto something here?

.

 

[George-ananda]

I was hopeful when I read the title but not so impressed after reading the details. At least this is an upgrade to the eternal suffering belief.

(I believe in eventual salvation for all, myself)

 

[Buddha Dharma]

I've for awhile thought that the traditional view of hell in the Catholic/Orthodox churches wasn't as certain or finely detailed as Protestant understandings. Eastern Orthodox for example believe in a view of hell almost identical to the Greek Hades from the polytheism.

You may find this interesting. It's an example of what I mean: Aerial Toll-Houses - OrthodoxWiki

 

[Axe Elf]

Yay! A Pope finally read the Bible!

Then the devil who had led them astray [deceiving and seducing them] was hurled into the fiery lake of burning brimstone, where the beast and false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever (through the ages of the ages). Then I saw a great white throne and the One Who was seated upon it, from Whose presence and from the sight of Whose face earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. I [also] saw the dead, great and small; they stood before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life. And the dead were judged (sentenced) by what they had done [their whole way of feeling and acting, their aims and endeavors] in accordance with what was recorded in the books. And the sea delivered up the dead who were in it, death and Hades (the state of death or disembodied existence) surrendered the dead in them, and all were tried and their cases determined by what they had done [according to their motives, aims, and works]. Then death and Hades (the state of death or disembodied existence) were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s [name] was not found recorded in the Book of Life, he was hurled into the lake of fire.
--Revelation 20:10-15 (Amplified Bible)

So in the first sentence we see that the only ones who will be tormented day and night forever and ever are the devil, the beast, and the false prophet. The last few sentences describe the fate of those who don't go to heaven--they are destroyed in the lake of fire--they suffer the "second death." The first death, presumably, would be the death of the body, the second death would be the death of the soul. And once body and soul are destroyed, poof, they are gone forever, just like before they were born.

Way to go, Pope Francis! Maybe he will finally bring the Catholic church around to following the Bible more closely. Now if they could just cut out that "Father" nonsense... and venerating saints and stuff... eh, at least it's a step in the right direction.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

The first death, presumably, would be the death of the body, the second death would be the death of the soul. And once body and soul are destroyed, poof, they are gone forever, just like before they were born.

The only problem with this understanding comes for Christians that care about gaining as many converts as possible. Because eternal annihilation wouldn't scare most people if thought about. As Epicurus once remarked: that which is without sensation is nothing to us.

Fear of hell has motivated many conversions. I've even had an evangelical tell me they couldn't leave the faith because they were scared.

 

[Axe Elf]

The only problem with this understanding comes for Christians that care about gaining as many converts as possible. Because eternal annihilation wouldn't scare most people if thought about. As Epicurus once remarked: that which is without sensation is nothing to us.

Fear of hell has motivated many conversions. I've even had an evangelical tell me they couldn't leave the faith because they were scared.

I think it works out rather nicely, because people who don't believe in a deity generally expect to be annihilated upon their death anyway (that their state after death will be roughly the same state as before they were born), so at least nobody is disappointed. The believers get what they expect--to go to heaven--and the atheists get what they expect--annihilation. If anyone fears not going to heaven (or even if, in their limited understanding, they fear going to hell), that's just a sign that they were created to believe. No one who doesn't believe in a deity would fear not going to heaven (or going to hell).

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom..." --Proverbs 9:10a (NIV)

 

[Buddha Dharma]

If anyone fears not going to heaven (or even if, in their limited understanding, they fear going to hell), that's just a sign that they were created to believe.

So I'm curious- do you accept predestination?

 

[Enoch07]

"In another interview with his longtime atheist friend, Eugenio Scalfari, Pope Francis claims that Hell does not exist and that condemned souls just "disappear." This is a denial of the 2,000-year-old teaching of the Catholic Church about the reality of Hell and the eternal existence of the soul.

Scalfari says to the Pope, "Your Holiness, in our previous meeting you told me that our species will disappear in a certain moment and that God, still out of his creative force, will create new species. You have never spoken to me about the souls who died in sin and will go to hell to suffer it for eternity. You have however spoken to me of good souls, admitted to the contemplation of God. But what about bad souls? Where are they punished?"

Pope Francis says, "They are not punished, those who repent obtain the forgiveness of God and enter the rank of souls who contemplate him, but those who do not repent and cannot therefore be forgiven disappear. There is no hell, there is the disappearance of sinful souls."
source​

I know the Pope only speaks for Catholicism, but besides the comments from Catholics here, I'm interested in the responses of other Christians. Could the Pope be onto something here?

.

It's about time the Catholic Church caught up to some of us other Christians.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That's not an official translation. I doubt he said that as it goes against Catholic theology and the basic belief in the immorality of the soul.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's about time the Catholic Church caught up to some of us other Christians.

And with us atheists.

 

[Vinayaka]

And with us atheists.

amongst others

 

[Skwim]

Yay! A Pope finally read the Bible!

Then the devil who had led them astray [deceiving and seducing them] was hurled into the fiery lake of burning brimstone, where the beast and false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever (through the ages of the ages). Then I saw a great white throne and the One Who was seated upon it, from Whose presence and from the sight of Whose face earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. I [also] saw the dead, great and small; they stood before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life. And the dead were judged (sentenced) by what they had done [their whole way of feeling and acting, their aims and endeavors] in accordance with what was recorded in the books. And the sea delivered up the dead who were in it, death and Hades (the state of death or disembodied existence) surrendered the dead in them, and all were tried and their cases determined by what they had done [according to their motives, aims, and works]. Then death and Hades (the state of death or disembodied existence) were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s [name] was not found recorded in the Book of Life, he was hurled into the lake of fire.
--Revelation 20:10-15 (Amplified Bible)

So in the first sentence we see that the only ones who will be tormented day and night forever and ever are the devil, the beast, and the false prophet. The last few sentences describe the fate of those who don't go to heaven--they are destroyed in the lake of fire--they suffer the "second death." The first death, presumably, would be the death of the body, the second death would be the death of the soul. And once body and soul are destroyed, poof, they are gone forever, just like before they were born.

Way to go, Pope Francis! Maybe he will finally bring the Catholic church around to following the Bible more closely. Now if they could just cut out that "Father" nonsense... and venerating saints and stuff... eh, at least it's a step in the right direction.

Seems others have opinions of a different color.

Psalm 139:8
If I ascend up into heaven, Thou art there; if I make my bed in hell, behold, Thou art there.

Matthew 18:9
And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.

Mark 9:43
And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.

Luke 12:5
But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!

.​

 

[Axe Elf]

So I'm curious- do you accept predestination?

I wish I didn't have to...

 

[Axe Elf]

Seems others have opinions of a different color.

Psalm 139:8
If I ascend up into heaven, Thou art there; if I make my bed in hell, behold, Thou art there.

Matthew 18:9
And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.

Mark 9:43
And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.

Luke 12:5
But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!

.​

The Psalm reference is a poetic one, like, "Ain't no mountain high enough; ain't no valley low enough" sort of thing.

The gospel verses refer to the lake of fire described in my citation of Revelation 20--also known as "the second death"--so that's not a different opinion at all.

 

[David1967]

"In another interview with his longtime atheist friend, Eugenio Scalfari, Pope Francis claims that Hell does not exist and that condemned souls just "disappear." This is a denial of the 2,000-year-old teaching of the Catholic Church about the reality of Hell and the eternal existence of the soul.

Scalfari says to the Pope, "Your Holiness, in our previous meeting you told me that our species will disappear in a certain moment and that God, still out of his creative force, will create new species. You have never spoken to me about the souls who died in sin and will go to hell to suffer it for eternity. You have however spoken to me of good souls, admitted to the contemplation of God. But what about bad souls? Where are they punished?"

Pope Francis says, "They are not punished, those who repent obtain the forgiveness of God and enter the rank of souls who contemplate him, but those who do not repent and cannot therefore be forgiven disappear. There is no hell, there is the disappearance of sinful souls."
source​

I know the Pope only speaks for Catholicism, but besides the comments from Catholics here, I'm interested in the responses of other Christians. Could the Pope be onto something here?

.

IDK. But I hope he is right about no Hell.

 

[Skwim]

The Psalm reference is a poetic one, like, "Ain't no mountain high enough; ain't no valley low enough" sort of thing.

The gospel verses refer to the lake of fire described in my citation of Revelation 20--also known as "the second death"--so that's not a different opinion at all.

Just a recognition of what is: Hell.
If there was no such a place as hell it wouldn't be an object of reference, and it wouldn't make any sense to mention it. But the writer did make reference to it.

.

 

[Skwim]

IDK. But I hope he is right about no Hell.

I'm afraid A.E. is riding the horse of wishful thinking here. But that's okay, I've never met a Christian who wasn't compelled to do a little cherry picking from time to time to keep their theological needs intact.

.

.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Yay! A Pope finally read the Bible!

Then the devil who had led them astray [deceiving and seducing them] was hurled into the fiery lake of burning brimstone, where the beast and false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever (through the ages of the ages). Then I saw a great white throne and the One Who was seated upon it, from Whose presence and from the sight of Whose face earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. I [also] saw the dead, great and small; they stood before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life. And the dead were judged (sentenced) by what they had done [their whole way of feeling and acting, their aims and endeavors] in accordance with what was recorded in the books. And the sea delivered up the dead who were in it, death and Hades (the state of death or disembodied existence) surrendered the dead in them, and all were tried and their cases determined by what they had done [according to their motives, aims, and works]. Then death and Hades (the state of death or disembodied existence) were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s [name] was not found recorded in the Book of Life, he was hurled into the lake of fire.
--Revelation 20:10-15 (Amplified Bible)

So in the first sentence we see that the only ones who will be tormented day and night forever and ever are the devil, the beast, and the false prophet. The last few sentences describe the fate of those who don't go to heaven--they are destroyed in the lake of fire--they suffer the "second death." The first death, presumably, would be the death of the body, the second death would be the death of the soul. And once body and soul are destroyed, poof, they are gone forever, just like before they were born.

Way to go, Pope Francis! Maybe he will finally bring the Catholic church around to following the Bible more closely. Now if they could just cut out that "Father" nonsense... and venerating saints and stuff... eh, at least it's a step in the right direction.

Why would you think that the devil, beast and false prophet would be tormented forever in the lake of fire, but anyone else thrown in it would be destroyed?

 

[Axe Elf]

Why would you think that the devil, beast and false prophet would be tormented forever in the lake of fire, but anyone else thrown in it would be destroyed?

:::shrugs::: Oh, I dunno, maybe because that's what it says.

 

[Axe Elf]

Just a recognition of what is: Hell.
If there was no such a place as hell it wouldn't be an object of reference, and it wouldn't make any sense to mention it. But the writer did make reference to it..

Who said there is no such place? Of course there is such a place. It's the incinerator you get tossed in if you weren't created for salvation--the lake of fire, the second death.