Pope Francis and LGBT people

[Shadow Wolf]

You want a quote from Christ. Okay. The fear of God (not referring to reverence) is primarily based on what's accredited to Jesus himself, saying, "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28; NIV). Of course, if anyone knows how cruel the Christian God is, it would be his son.

They teach and say it's not fear as we think of it today but rather adoration, however that passage confirms it is the same fear that fueled the stories of Lovecraft, the same fear those like Vlad Dracul III have weaponized.

 

[sun rise]

And I don't get where he gets this idea from, because the Bible is saturated with passages that condemn LGBT people. "Detestable," "abomination," "perversion," "they shall not inherit the Kingdom." That is what the Bible has to say about LGBT people. And not only that, it says to kill them.
And Jehovah doesn't disown his children? "I never knew you, depart from me" is what Jesus has already said he's going to be saying to many of those who follow him (Matthew 7:23). He also warned against lessening and changing the laws and said those who do will be counted among the least in the Kingdom.

It's full of contradictions. I can find quotes on the other side such as the 2 greatest commandments, Jesus eating with sinners etc. I learned that when I read Lincoln's 2nd inaugural address where he noted that pro- and anti-slavery people both found justification for their views in the Bible.

 

[sun rise]

Problem is not what the pope says, problem is when his words are taken and reconstructed as if he approves LGBT.

Here is an example:

Which in fact he didn't say literally.
Pope Francis indicates support for same-sex civil unions - BBC News

So much about "pope news"

I have no issue with pointing out lack of accuracy in the media.

 

[sun rise]

Not really. The Church has consistently welcomed all sinners and we encourage them in love to stop sinning and follow Christ.

To me there's a reason Pope Francis said:

“It is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time. The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church’s pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently,” said Pope Francis.


He further added: “Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person? We have to find a new balance; otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel.”

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's full of contradictions. I can find quotes on the other side such as the 2 greatest commandments, Jesus eating with sinners etc. I learned that when I read Lincoln's 2nd inaugural address where he noted that pro- and anti-slavery people both found justification for their views in the Bible.

But who are the antis to argue against what god has granted as permissible?

 

[Estro Felino]

Given that it is most likely that most Catholic priests are homosexuals, I guess it would be incoherent to listen to different stance from the Papacy. That said, the Church cannot encourage homosexuality among lay people, in a Europe with very low birth rates. It is pure pragmatism.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

i agree that there is a difference, but both are sins. God gives us free will. We may desire things that are not good for us or others, but we don’t have to choose them.

Our souls are eternal. The short time we spend in earth is nothing compared to eternity. Gods plan goes beyond this life. Justice will be achieved.

Love is only possible if we have free will and that means we will sometimes choose the wrong path.

But what makes them both sins? Pedophilia obviously is non-consensual and creates trauma for the young person, but homosexuals can be very happy and healthy in their relationships?

So if homosexuality is a sin, why does God condemn it despite the healthy happiness it brings? If God is omni-etc. it is within God's power to change that and not force the cruel double-bind created.

 

[RestlessSoul]

So, homosexuals can join, only if they remain single and celibate? Crazy. Why would anyone torture themselves like that?

They can join the priesthood, problem solved. Or then again, perhaps not.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Not a single quote from Christ.

...about LGBT people.

So if Christ, and not God, is the standard, then Christians need not condemn them.

 

[RestlessSoul]

And I don't get where he gets this idea from, because the Bible is saturated with passages that condemn LGBT people. "Detestable," "abomination," "perversion," "they shall not inherit the Kingdom." That is what the Bible has to say about LGBT people. And not only that, it says to kill them.
And Jehovah doesn't disown his children? "I never knew you, depart from me" is what Jesus has already said he's going to be saying to many of those who follow him (Matthew 7:23). He also warned against lessening and changing the laws and said those who do will be counted among the least in the Kingdom.

So the Pope is wrong, to interpret Jesus’ message as a gospel of love, tolerance and acceptance? I’d say it was the puritans and the fundamentalists who are misguided. Christ taught us that we should not be judging each other, but rather that we should love one other, unconditionally and in all circumstances.

 

[Brian2]

But what does this say about God? Shouldn't an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God be able to do more to alleviate the suffering of Its creation?

Note: There is a vast difference between homosexuality and pedophilia. One has the capability of consent, the other does not.

The thing is that Christians all sin in one way or another and so it becomes hypocritical for us to condemn any other person who repented and turned to Jesus.
We can support each other and try to teach each other but not condemn.
The judgement is not ours to do.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

The thing is that Christians all sin in one way or another and so it becomes hypocritical for us to condemn any other person who repented and turned to Jesus.
We can support each other and try to teach each other but not condemn.
The judgement is not ours to do.

That's righteous and all, but how does this pertain to my quoted post?

 

[Brian2]

That's righteous and all, but how does this pertain to my quoted post?

Probably nothing directly.
More directly relating to your post would be that God wants us to know what He sees as right and wrong.
A problem in Christianity seems to have been the teaching that condemns people for their sin instead of supporting them. The gospel is meant to give us peace with God, a relief from guilt suffering and it does that, and we do not need guilt and rejection piled onto us from people when we are trying to do and be what God wants us to be and are forgiven by God.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This is all true, but he is not condoning homosexual behavior.

Indeed.

He's just the smiling front man for a bigoted institution, trying to put as positive a spin as he can on hateful doctrines.

... and the fact that he knows this hate needs to be spun tells us that he knows it's wrong.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Indeed.

He's just the smiling front man for a bigoted institution, trying to put as positive a spin as he can on hateful doctrines.

... and the fact that he knows this hate needs to be spun tells us that he knows it's wrong.

Can you really not see the bigoted spin in your own post here?

 

[KW]

You want a quote from Christ. Okay. The fear of God (not referring to reverence) is primarily based on what's accredited to Jesus himself, saying, "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28; NIV). Of course, if anyone knows how cruel the Christian God is, it would be his son.

What is wrong with that?

 

[KW]

Indeed.

He's just the smiling front man for a bigoted institution, trying to put as positive a spin as he can on hateful doctrines.

... and the fact that he knows this hate needs to be spun tells us that he knows it's wrong.

If he recommends that a person stop smoking does that mean he hates them?

 

[KW]

It's full of contradictions. I can find quotes on the other side such as the 2 greatest commandments, Jesus eating with sinners etc. I learned that when I read Lincoln's 2nd inaugural address where he noted that pro- and anti-slavery people both found justification for their views in the Bible.

Jesus is clear.

Let him without sin throw the first stone.

Go and sin no more.

 

[pearl]

For Francis the Church is to be pastoral, following the Gospel and the example of Jesus, not with an emphasis on the juridical. This is the mandate of Vatican II which was pastoral in nature, not dogmatic.

 

[Luchito Prays]

This is why I like Pope Francis. I don't have to agree with all of his theology to appreciate his attitude in some key areas:

Pope to LGBT Catholics: 'God is Father who does not disown any of his children' - Vatican News

Outreach: What would you say is the most important thing for LGBT people to know about God?


Pope Francis: God is Father and he does not disown any of his children. And “the style” of God is “closeness, mercy and tenderness.” Along this path you will find God.
...
Outreach: What do you say to an LGBT Catholic who has experienced rejection from the Church?


Pope Francis: I would have them recognize it not as “the rejection of the church,” but instead of “people in the church.” The church is a mother and calls together all her children. Take for example the parable of those invited to the feast: “the just, the sinners, the rich and the poor, etc.” [Matthew 22:1-15; Luke 14:15-24]. A “selective” church, one of “pure blood,” is not Holy Mother Church, but rather a sect.

For God his children are the ones who obey Him.

Homosexuals and lesbians do not obey God, then homosexuals and lesbians are not God's children.

God can reject them, and He did and He still does.