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Pope Francis and LGBT people

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Homosexuals and lesbians do not obey God, then homosexuals and lesbians are not God's children.

God can reject them, and He did and He still does.
Ever hear "hate the sin, not the sinner"? Maybe consider letting God do the judging, thus not you nor I. And Jesus said, "Love one another..." and did not add "... but you can hate the homosexuals and lesbians".
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
If he recommends that a person stop smoking does that mean he hates them?
Your bias is showing.

It isn't so much "I recommend that you stop smoking" as it is "the only acceptable type of ice cream is butterscotch ripple, and if you have strawberry, I recommend that you be tortured forever."

And yes, the Church's position on homosexuality is hateful.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
This is why I like Pope Francis. I don't have to agree with all of his theology to appreciate his attitude in some key areas:

Pope to LGBT Catholics: 'God is Father who does not disown any of his children' - Vatican News

Outreach: What would you say is the most important thing for LGBT people to know about God?


Pope Francis: God is Father and he does not disown any of his children. And “the style” of God is “closeness, mercy and tenderness.” Along this path you will find God.
...
Outreach: What do you say to an LGBT Catholic who has experienced rejection from the Church?


Pope Francis: I would have them recognize it not as “the rejection of the church,” but instead of “people in the church.” The church is a mother and calls together all her children. Take for example the parable of those invited to the feast: “the just, the sinners, the rich and the poor, etc.” [Matthew 22:1-15; Luke 14:15-24]. A “selective” church, one of “pure blood,” is not Holy Mother Church, but rather a sect.
Yet, gays are not officially allowed to get a blessing. And he could change that very easily.

So, that pope remembers me of those Talibans sounding like to implement changes, while doing nothing at all, or even getting backward. so, just a PR stunt.

ciao

- viole
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
For God his children are the ones who obey Him.

Homosexuals and lesbians do not obey God, then homosexuals and lesbians are not God's children.

God can reject them, and He did and He still does.


Are you His self appointed spokesman, or did He anoint you somehow?
 
Ever hear "hate the sin, not the sinner"? Maybe consider letting God do the judging, thus not you nor I. And Jesus said, "Love one another..." and did not add "... but you can hate the homosexuals and lesbians".
God hates the sinner, you can tell when he ordered caught homosexuals doing their thing to be sent to death.

The words love one to another is interpreted as, if you love your friend who is homosexual, then teach him the right path so he will sin no more.

Love the homosexual as a neighbor doesn't men accepting his sexual orientation, you have take wrong the biblical quote.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Father Martin, who launched the Outreach website earlier this month, wrote a letter to Pope Francis on May 5, asking three questions he said he commonly hears from L.G.B.T. Catholics and their families. The editor at large at America received the pope’s response three days later: a hand-written note, in Spanish.
‘Outreach’ website hopes to inspire online L.G.B.T. community for Catholics | America Magazine
God loves the excluded and the marginized. Excluded by whom? Marginalized by whom?

simple: the excluded and marginalized by the very church that is supposed to represent Him. So, one of the two is lying. Since God is totally implausible, who is left?

Ciao

- viole
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Are you His self appointed spokesman, or did He anoint you somehow?

Exactly. God isn't bound and beholden to the tomes and temples written and constructed by mortal middlemen. Anyone can pull a ventriloquist act with God, which is basically what religion and scripture is.
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
Indeed.

He's just the smiling front man for a bigoted institution, trying to put as positive a spin as he can on hateful doctrines.

... and the fact that he knows this hate needs to be spun tells us that he knows it's wrong.

Personally, I think Pope Francis, the Catholic Church clergy, and every other Catholic who piously judges gay people should be more concerned about the huge plank in the eye of the Catholic Church than they should be worried about the speck in the eye of a gay person. Its hierarchy has protected the pedophile priests who have molested and raped thousands of children for centuries, and it's still protecting these sexual predators. The Catholic Church's sex abuse scandal certainly damages its moral credibility with the public.
 
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RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
Exactly. God isn't bound and beholden to the tomes and temples written and constructed by mortal middlemen. Anyone can pull a ventriloquist act with God, which is basically what religion and scripture is.


I don’t think that’s what all religion and scripture is, at all. But it can become that. Indeed it’s arguable that such ossification is inevitable over time.
 

Ella S.

Dispassionate Goth
If he recommends that a person stop smoking does that mean he hates them?

I think there's a difference here. The only harm caused by consensual homosexual activity is spiritual harm. It doesn't harm the physical or mental health of anyone involved.

Past popes have given blanket forgiveness for a wide variety of sins, even including murder during some of the crusades. There's nothing stopping one from giving blanket forgiveness for homosexuality, as far as I'm aware, which would completely remove all harm caused by the act.

If the pope could cure the lung disease of smokers, don't you think he would out of the kindness of his heart?
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
So the Pope is wrong, to interpret Jesus’ message as a gospel of love, tolerance and acceptance? I’d say it was the puritans and the fundamentalists who are misguided. Christ taught us that we should not be judging each other, but rather that we should love one other, unconditionally and in all circumstances.
Where he is wrong is the Bible very clearly says what its god thinks about those who are LGBT. And he is wrong about Jesus not disowning people, because he said it himself he would.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
For God his children are the ones who obey Him.

Homosexuals and lesbians do not obey God, then homosexuals and lesbians are not God's children.

God can reject them, and He did and He still does.

If God rejects those who sin, he's rejecting 99.999999% of the human race (assuming you believe in sin).
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
If God rejects those who sin, he's rejecting 99.999999% of the human race (assuming you believe in sin).
The Bible pretty much says he rejects that many anyways, with that 99.9999% being tossed into either eternal fires or darkness.
 

Fallen Prophet

Well-Known Member
This is why I like Pope Francis. I don't have to agree with all of his theology to appreciate his attitude in some key areas:

Pope to LGBT Catholics: 'God is Father who does not disown any of his children' - Vatican News

Outreach: What would you say is the most important thing for LGBT people to know about God?


Pope Francis: God is Father and he does not disown any of his children. And “the style” of God is “closeness, mercy and tenderness.” Along this path you will find God.
...
Outreach: What do you say to an LGBT Catholic who has experienced rejection from the Church?


Pope Francis: I would have them recognize it not as “the rejection of the church,” but instead of “people in the church.” The church is a mother and calls together all her children. Take for example the parable of those invited to the feast: “the just, the sinners, the rich and the poor, etc.” [Matthew 22:1-15; Luke 14:15-24]. A “selective” church, one of “pure blood,” is not Holy Mother Church, but rather a sect.
We are supposed to hate the sin and love the sinner.

Pope Francis wants all people to come to God - yet he also recognizes that homosexual behavior is sinful.
 
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