Pope Benedict attacked by Catholic Church’s most senior theologians

[lilithu]

It's a major Roman Catholic theologian who doesn't agree with the appointment of Ratzinger as the new Pope.

Hans Kung studied under Karl Barth, arguably the most prominent Catholic theologian of the 20th century. He's the president of the Global Ethic Foundation, which seeks to make religion an instrument of peace by interfaith dialogue and focusing on that with which we agree. Not only is he pro-liberation theology, pro-interfaith dialogue, he's also pro gender equality. And a prolific author.

"If you cannot see that divinity includes male and female characteristics and at the same time transcends them, you have bad consequences. Rome based the exclusion of women priests on the idea that God is the father and Jesus is his son, there were only male disciples, etc. They are defending a patriarchal church with a patriarchal God. We must fight the patriarchal misunderstanding of God." — Newsweek interview, 1991 :hearts:

 

[Random]

He does not agree with many of the Church teachings.. and what happened to him?... but maybe he'll be part of the Vatican 3 "coup" that will change things.

I find this sort of disappointing attitude prevalent amongst Catholics; the theologian disagreed with the "Authority" of some of the Church's teachings (and had a personal difference with a Cardinal who became a Pope), and he was dismissed from his position.

This is always implicit in Catholicism; obey the rules and do not question "Authority" or risk dismissal, sacking and humililiation/marginalization. It is a very inhuman, poor attitude, more mechanical and systemic than intellectually sound.

It is one of the main reasons I cannot see my way to follow the Church as a practicing Catholic. My personal revelation runs contrary to theirs, and I won't accept external religious authority which claims to be divinely revealed and carried out in the name of God by an "infallible" ruler. NO, that is a mistake - one that has been made in the history of Man several times actually. Never again, for me.

 

[Scott1]

"If you cannot see that divinity includes male and female characteristics and at the same time transcends them, you have bad consequences. Rome based the exclusion of women priests on the idea that God is the father and Jesus is his son, there were only male disciples, etc. They are defending a patriarchal church with a patriarchal God. We must fight the patriarchal misunderstanding of God." — Newsweek interview, 1991 :hearts:

Just for you my dear: Writings of Hans Küng

Ssssh... don't tell Dopp.... he doesn't know I love Kung!

 

[Scott1]

I find this sort of disappointing attitude prevalent amongst Catholics;

You don't know me... and you're not paying attention.

 

[Random]

You don't know me... and you're not paying attention.

True, I don't know you. What do you mean "paying attention", to what?

 

[Scott1]

True, I don't know you. What do you mean "paying attention", to what?

Why would you find it dissapointing that I agree with you?

 

[Random]

Why would you find it dissapointing that I agree with you?

Oh...okay, people don't agree with me too often, much. Sorry, I am not disappointed if you do agree. I know all Catholics aren't the same, I'm just a little over-conscious of being a different make of one myself.

 

[Scott1]

Welcome to the club....


.... and ask next time, don't assume.

 

[doppelganger]

Hans Kung studied under Karl Barth, arguably the most prominent Catholic theologian of the 20th century. He's the president of the Global Ethic Foundation, which seeks to make religion an instrument of peace by interfaith dialogue and focusing on that with which we agree. Not only is he pro-liberation theology, pro-interfaith dialogue, he's also pro gender equality. And a prolific author.

Yes, I'm aware of that. I'm rather fond of Kung myself, for many of the same reasons I was fond of John Paul II.

 

[Random]

Welcome to the club....


.... and ask next time, don't assume.

Will do.

 

[doppelganger]

Ssssh... don't tell Dopp.... he doesn't know I love Kung!

Actually, I assumed you did. I was merely answering Paul's question about the authority of Vatican II and the fact that there are all kinds of people in the Roman Catholic Church with all kinds of opinions about what really should and should not be the teachings and positions of the Church (Kung and yourself included) making them very malleable. You don't appear to disagree with me, so I'm not sure why you decided to start arguing the point.

 

[Scott1]

Actually, I assumed you did. I was merely answering Paul's question about the authority of Vatican II and the fact that there are all kinds of people in the Roman Catholic Church with all kinds of opinions about what really should and should not be the teachings and positions of the Church (Kung and yourself included) making them very malleable. You don't appear to disagree with me, so I'm not sure why you decided to start arguing the point.

Because I don't agree... a plethora of opinions count for squat when faced with the Magesterium run by a conservative Pope... malleable (to me) implies that they are easily shaped and changed.... in the last 500 years, that does not appear to be the case. In fact, Kung argues the same point... that's why he does not like Benedict... and did not like JPII.

"Malleable".... unfortunately, this is only in some of our dreams.

 

[YmirGF]

"Malleable".... unfortunately, this is only in some of our dreams.

Given the information in this thread it would appear that Pope Benedict XVi could have this on his desk.

:angel2: "Any malleability stops here." :angel2:

 

[lilithu]

Because I don't agree... a plethora of opinions count for squat when faced with the Magesterium run by a conservative Pope... malleable (to me) implies that they are easily shaped and changed.... in the last 500 years, that does not appear to be the case. In fact, Kung argues the same point... that's why he does not like Benedict... and did not like JPII.

"Malleable".... unfortunately, this is only in some of our dreams.

:hug: This too shall pass. Don't give up. Catholicism is as much yours and Kung's religion as it is Benedict's. And we need people like you and my liberation theology professor and the Kennedy women to keep the spirit of John XXIII alive.

 

[Smoke]

I keep picturing Hans Küng pointing a fire hose at Benedict XVI.

 

[TashaN]

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