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Please respond and help me
- Thread starter DivineLegend
- Start date
Hema
Sweet n Spicy
Welcome to RF. You said that you can't wrap your mind around something you can't touch. However, if you believe in that higher power, it cannot be fully understood with the human mind but it can be felt with the heart because love is God and God is love. I also think that there must have been something before creation. I believe that nothing created God because God is not limited by time. Only the material universe is limited by time because it occupies space and whatever occupies space is limited by time.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Hi, Divine, welcome and commendations for your brave post.
Although there are people here of all faiths and no faith, in a way we are all in the same boat; we are all trying to figure it all out, and all have the same resources available to do it with: our minds and hearts.
"Life is like playing a violin in public and learning the instrument as one goes on."
-Samuel Butler
I see that no none has tried to preach the "answer" to you, and that is great, because the whole point is that no one but you can figure out your answer, right?
You can see from my personal info that I am an atheist. I came to that position by allowing myself to ask myself any question, and do my best to figure out the answer.
It may be that if you did the same thing, you would come up with an entirely different answer. However I will just suggest to you that you have the right and obligation to ask any question and use what resources you have to find the answer. If the religion you were raised in is right, then you will end up back there when you're done. If not, then it is best to figure that out.
The unexamined life is not worth living.
-Socrates
Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson
The process is uncomfortable, but it is also exciting. I suggest to you that discomfort is a positive thing, a necessity for learning.
I also suggest that you do not start with what you were raised with--after all, logically, why is that any more likely to be right than what children are taught in Tibet or Iran? Try to start just with the questions: Is there a God? If so, what is His, Her or Its nature? How did we get here? How can I live a good life? Or whatever the questions are for you. What I'm suggesting is, try to start from scratch. It's hard as hell, but I think more likely to lead to more correct, as well as more original answers, then starting from whatever arbitrary belief system you have been inculcated with so far.
Would you like RFers to suggest some reading material from their perspective? That might give you a smorgasbord of ideas.
Although there are people here of all faiths and no faith, in a way we are all in the same boat; we are all trying to figure it all out, and all have the same resources available to do it with: our minds and hearts.
"Life is like playing a violin in public and learning the instrument as one goes on."
-Samuel Butler
I see that no none has tried to preach the "answer" to you, and that is great, because the whole point is that no one but you can figure out your answer, right?
You can see from my personal info that I am an atheist. I came to that position by allowing myself to ask myself any question, and do my best to figure out the answer.
It may be that if you did the same thing, you would come up with an entirely different answer. However I will just suggest to you that you have the right and obligation to ask any question and use what resources you have to find the answer. If the religion you were raised in is right, then you will end up back there when you're done. If not, then it is best to figure that out.
The unexamined life is not worth living.
-Socrates
Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson
The process is uncomfortable, but it is also exciting. I suggest to you that discomfort is a positive thing, a necessity for learning.
I also suggest that you do not start with what you were raised with--after all, logically, why is that any more likely to be right than what children are taught in Tibet or Iran? Try to start just with the questions: Is there a God? If so, what is His, Her or Its nature? How did we get here? How can I live a good life? Or whatever the questions are for you. What I'm suggesting is, try to start from scratch. It's hard as hell, but I think more likely to lead to more correct, as well as more original answers, then starting from whatever arbitrary belief system you have been inculcated with so far.
Would you like RFers to suggest some reading material from their perspective? That might give you a smorgasbord of ideas.
Super Universe
Defender of God
God absolutely exists. This incredible universe is not an accident. People have trouble accepting that God would allow bad things to happen to us but bad experiences often provide the best opportunities for learning, not that God wants bad things to happen but He gave us all free will and He will not interefere.
Cussing a sin? Wow... That's a pretty hard core religious view. Your family has a very narrow view of God. In some cultures people hurt themselves, they bloody their back and head in an effort to show God that they are fervent believers. Just set your morals into stone and try to do no harm. That's all.
Your analytical mind wants to know where everything came from? Sounds like how I used to be.
Think of an orange, the center of the orange is heaven and surrounding the orange is a peel, this peel is the first dimension. Now, put ten more peels around the orange. There are eleven dimensions. The outermost dimension is our universe. The big bang was caused by God creating a small opening from the higher tenth dimension from which energy flowed down and condensed into matter and formed all of the stars, planets, and galaxies that we see.
Where did God come from? The answer is circular, meaning, it goes around then comes back upon itself. It's not something we can understand.
The bible does not perfectly represent God. In the old days humans did not know what caused the wind, storms, rain, earthquakes, meteors, drought, plagues, and more. So when these things happened they asked the tribal holy man, and then their priests, "Why is God angry with us?". Well, the priest did not know but he had to come up with an answer so he told the people that God was angry because they had not given a proper animal sacrifice. Sometimes the priest blamed things on the people he considered outcasts among them like the homosexuals but God never sent a storm or an earthquake. God does not become angry or jealous. What would He be jealous of?
Hell is not a place of eternal torture, it's a place where those who have chosen to be selfish can go and compete. Everyone is saved, we will all make it home to heaven eventually. It's not a race.
If you see a child being born and you don't see God at work then you're not supposed to see it. If you see kittens at play and you don't see God, then just accept that it's not your time to know. If you walk through a tall stand of trees, full of life, and you think you are alone, then just go on with your life and don't look for God anymore at all.
Cussing a sin? Wow... That's a pretty hard core religious view. Your family has a very narrow view of God. In some cultures people hurt themselves, they bloody their back and head in an effort to show God that they are fervent believers. Just set your morals into stone and try to do no harm. That's all.
Your analytical mind wants to know where everything came from? Sounds like how I used to be.
Think of an orange, the center of the orange is heaven and surrounding the orange is a peel, this peel is the first dimension. Now, put ten more peels around the orange. There are eleven dimensions. The outermost dimension is our universe. The big bang was caused by God creating a small opening from the higher tenth dimension from which energy flowed down and condensed into matter and formed all of the stars, planets, and galaxies that we see.
Where did God come from? The answer is circular, meaning, it goes around then comes back upon itself. It's not something we can understand.
The bible does not perfectly represent God. In the old days humans did not know what caused the wind, storms, rain, earthquakes, meteors, drought, plagues, and more. So when these things happened they asked the tribal holy man, and then their priests, "Why is God angry with us?". Well, the priest did not know but he had to come up with an answer so he told the people that God was angry because they had not given a proper animal sacrifice. Sometimes the priest blamed things on the people he considered outcasts among them like the homosexuals but God never sent a storm or an earthquake. God does not become angry or jealous. What would He be jealous of?
Hell is not a place of eternal torture, it's a place where those who have chosen to be selfish can go and compete. Everyone is saved, we will all make it home to heaven eventually. It's not a race.
If you see a child being born and you don't see God at work then you're not supposed to see it. If you see kittens at play and you don't see God, then just accept that it's not your time to know. If you walk through a tall stand of trees, full of life, and you think you are alone, then just go on with your life and don't look for God anymore at all.
DivineLegend
New Member
*whistles* wow, i don't even know how to begin to take this. That is an incredible insight and i am glad you have found what you have been searching for. However, for myself, i don't think i can believe the same things that you do. It is difficult for me to accept anything that i don't have proof of, much less God, much less 11 diffirent dimensions. Its just how i am, and im sorry if that offends you.
I appreciate all of the replies, and yes i would love some links to some websites that you all might think would help me find my path. Thank you for your post Auto and Roli and everyone else. Its very refreshing and encouraging to come here and express my views and doubts and to know that i am not the only one to have ever experienced doubt. Where im from, people just dont go around talking about things like this, you either believe in God or your a satan worshipper and an outcast, and kids dont come by your house for trick or treat during halloween. Today i got a forwarded email from my mother about all of the celebrities that have been struck down by God after talking bad about him, and my eyebrows raised and i thought to myself "How am i ever to believe if fear is the only motive?" I am glad i have found this community and look forward to hours of chatting back and forth with you all.
Thanks Everyone,
Brandon
zenzero
Its only a Label
Friend Divine Legend,
Its not just around 15 hours since your post and you have 26 responses.
Thats Divine intevention I guess.
Well, frankly speaking the answere is HELP YOURSELF.
No divine powers can help anyone to start with but on the otherhand *Each one is born divine* except one does not realise it.
CAn only say, to start with *BE YOURSELF8. Do whatever you wish to but without making it obvious.
Slowly and surely the way will appear to you if you are consitent in your approach.
Happy hunting.
Love & rgds
Its not just around 15 hours since your post and you have 26 responses.
Thats Divine intevention I guess.
Well, frankly speaking the answere is HELP YOURSELF.
No divine powers can help anyone to start with but on the otherhand *Each one is born divine* except one does not realise it.
CAn only say, to start with *BE YOURSELF8. Do whatever you wish to but without making it obvious.
Slowly and surely the way will appear to you if you are consitent in your approach.
Happy hunting.
Love & rgds
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
And if it were true--would they need to use fear to keep you believing? That sounds like the tactics of a totalitarian regime.
Here is a website the promotes religious freedom and tolerance, and is chock full of info on many different faiths and lack thereof.
However, maybe a good first step would be to formulate your question clearly in your own mind. What question are you trying to answer?
Divine ,i think Autodidact said it best,although there are so many variations already being posted about God etc.....,
Ask yourself some basic questions.
Is there a God?
Who is God ?
What does he want with me?
Why am I here?
Where did I come from ?
Where am I going?
Feel free to talk via personal email, just double click the perspective persons picture in the top left, you'll be taken to their personal site look for personal email.
Write away !!
I think you'll have more clarity if you primarily start out like that as opposed to being inundated with a so many views at once.
Food for thought !!!
Ask yourself some basic questions.
Is there a God?
Who is God ?
What does he want with me?
Why am I here?
Where did I come from ?
Where am I going?
Feel free to talk via personal email, just double click the perspective persons picture in the top left, you'll be taken to their personal site look for personal email.
Write away !!
I think you'll have more clarity if you primarily start out like that as opposed to being inundated with a so many views at once.
Food for thought !!!
Welcome to the forums, Divine. :hug: <-------Hope you don't mind.
And you're right about the "hours of chatting back and forth"..........beware the addiction factor that is RF. LOL
As you very well know in your profession, fear is a tremendous motivating factor in how and why people do the things that they do. Someone can very easily create a hellish state of mind and/or assumed scenario, and respond either by fleeing it or fighting it.
Others have already stated so eloquently what I would say, too, and that is that only you can carve your own path as according to what you believe. It can be the scariest thing in the world realizing that you truly don't believe what you've been taught what you should believe, but IMO it's the first authentic step toward realization.
It's liberating. However, I have yet to hear anyone claim that liberation was ever going to be comfortable all the time.
Good luck, and happy posting! :flower:
Peace,
Mystic
tomspug
Absorbant
Life is so frustrating and difficult... and at the same time so uniquely personal. Religion can feel, at times, restrictive because of the pressure that exists to conform.
You should not allow yourself to give in to this. If a religious truth is indeed true, that will become evident over time and through experience. What is important is that you never stop asking questions, never stop searching. If you have questions about God, ask Him yourself. Maybe He isn't the same kind of God you were taught as a child. Maybe He is greater than your imagination can contain. This is the best advice I can give, turn to God and confront Him directly. If you're angry at Him, yell at Him. If you're depressed, express your sorrow to Him.
If you're struggling with something, even atheism, I can't imagine that doing this won't solve your problem. I'm an analytical person myself and tend to get stuck in my own head, but I can only support myself as much as I have the ability to. My logic is, if there is a benevolent creator, or even just a creator, he would be the first thing I should turn to if I have questions, and if I don't get a reply, maybe I'll find somewhere else to find the answers to all my questions.
You should not allow yourself to give in to this. If a religious truth is indeed true, that will become evident over time and through experience. What is important is that you never stop asking questions, never stop searching. If you have questions about God, ask Him yourself. Maybe He isn't the same kind of God you were taught as a child. Maybe He is greater than your imagination can contain. This is the best advice I can give, turn to God and confront Him directly. If you're angry at Him, yell at Him. If you're depressed, express your sorrow to Him.
If you're struggling with something, even atheism, I can't imagine that doing this won't solve your problem. I'm an analytical person myself and tend to get stuck in my own head, but I can only support myself as much as I have the ability to. My logic is, if there is a benevolent creator, or even just a creator, he would be the first thing I should turn to if I have questions, and if I don't get a reply, maybe I'll find somewhere else to find the answers to all my questions.
First off, welcome to the forums Brandon.
I think a lot of us here can relate to how you feel. My advice to you is be true to yourself and your feelings. Hiding them or repressing them will not make it go away, it'll probably make it worse. It's good that you're tackling the issues you have in the face of adversity.
There are always going to be people in life who will tell you what to believe, but honestly it's something you have to find out on your own. Don't take anything at face value and do your own research, make your own conclusions, etc.
I think you will find your stay here enjoyable. I'm pretty sure that any issues you may have are covered here. If there is an issue your intersted in that has not been covered by some chance, we have many great members here who are always willing contributing their wisdom. So, I invite you to read and ask away and enjoy your stay.
I think a lot of us here can relate to how you feel. My advice to you is be true to yourself and your feelings. Hiding them or repressing them will not make it go away, it'll probably make it worse. It's good that you're tackling the issues you have in the face of adversity.
There are always going to be people in life who will tell you what to believe, but honestly it's something you have to find out on your own. Don't take anything at face value and do your own research, make your own conclusions, etc.
I think you will find your stay here enjoyable. I'm pretty sure that any issues you may have are covered here. If there is an issue your intersted in that has not been covered by some chance, we have many great members here who are always willing contributing their wisdom. So, I invite you to read and ask away and enjoy your stay.
Hello and welcome to the RF.
I think a big mistake that most of us make is that we worry too much about other people and not about ourselves. Jesus said that we should take the log (or plank) and not worry about the speck (or splinter) in our brother's eye. In other words, I think we should worry about about our own walk with God and not worry that someone else is getting better treatment than we are.
To be quite frank, we don't know who is saved and who isn't. When we enter the Kingdom of God, I believe without a doubt that we will see people that we did not expect and not see other people that we did expect. We cannot see into a person's heart-only God and the person can see their heart. Each person is convicted of his or her own sin or fleshly desires- and each person knows where their weakness is. It is not our place to point our fingers and judge another person for what they do or what they consider what is or isn't a sin. It is only our place to tell a person of our own faith if they are doing something you may consider wrong--And then, once you tell them, it is out of your hands and the person takes over.
It isn't really about what you or I consider a sin, but what God considers a sin. I believe that God will convict that person directly.
I hope you find the answers you are searching for. Remember that every person of faith goes through a period of what you are going through. I did myself years ago. It only made me stronger.
I think a big mistake that most of us make is that we worry too much about other people and not about ourselves. Jesus said that we should take the log (or plank) and not worry about the speck (or splinter) in our brother's eye. In other words, I think we should worry about about our own walk with God and not worry that someone else is getting better treatment than we are.
To be quite frank, we don't know who is saved and who isn't. When we enter the Kingdom of God, I believe without a doubt that we will see people that we did not expect and not see other people that we did expect. We cannot see into a person's heart-only God and the person can see their heart. Each person is convicted of his or her own sin or fleshly desires- and each person knows where their weakness is. It is not our place to point our fingers and judge another person for what they do or what they consider what is or isn't a sin. It is only our place to tell a person of our own faith if they are doing something you may consider wrong--And then, once you tell them, it is out of your hands and the person takes over.
It isn't really about what you or I consider a sin, but what God considers a sin. I believe that God will convict that person directly.
I hope you find the answers you are searching for. Remember that every person of faith goes through a period of what you are going through. I did myself years ago. It only made me stronger.
frg001
Complex bunch of atoms
This reaction is why I consider a strong religious upbringing as mental child abuse on a par if not worse than sexual abuse. Of course you will have problems. Not many strongly analytical minds come to the same conclusion that any of the religions teach as fact.
Let go of your inhereted 'beliefs' and really think for yourself. Maybe you will come to the conclusion that God and Jesus are real, and worth believing in, and that is fine, but you should let go of what people have force-fed you while you were at your most impressionable and vunerable.
Let go of your inhereted 'beliefs' and really think for yourself. Maybe you will come to the conclusion that God and Jesus are real, and worth believing in, and that is fine, but you should let go of what people have force-fed you while you were at your most impressionable and vunerable.
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
Hinduism is the future!! You will love it!
! You will love it!
frg001
Complex bunch of atoms
Hinduism is the future!
And just maybe when you're old enough, you'll realise that it isn't
DivineLegend
New Member
Thank you all once again. I believe my true purpose for this post is to make sure that feeling the way i do, and having the doubts that i do are ok. Brought up the way i was, i would personally scorn myself as a child for ever second guessing my faith whenever a doubt or question came into my mind, much less the scorn and ridicule i endured if i spoke about them with anyone else. It is nice to finally come into a place, take my coat off and prop my feet up and just lay back and relax. This is truely a refreshing experience, and it makes me feel like i have found a home. I am beginning to reform to my own beliefs, and just knowing that im not the only one is a wonderful feeling. Im not sure if i will ever have a titled religion, my views are my own, and i am enjoying the thought that maybe God is who i hoped him to be the entire time; loving, compassionate, and caring. I dont expect to wash my hands of all the wrong things i have done, and i dont expect to be patted on the back anytime i do something right, however, i would like to think that my entire life, and my good heart will be taken into consideration when i die, and regardless of whats after death, atleast i will have led a good life, full of virtue and honor. I can now say, truthfully from my heart, that i pity anyone who has been force-fed religion as a child and never stepped back and thought whether or not they truely believe and agree with what they are putting their faith in. I am glad i was able to take that step back and take a look around, or i would be just as closed off and narrow minded as my family is.
Thank you,
Brandon
Thank you,
Brandon
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
2 more thoughts for you, Brandon.
1. Again, if something is true, you wouldn't have to resort to scorn and ridicule to keep people believing it, would you.
2. This is going to sound weird coming from an atheist. For myself, I concluded that I do not believe that God exists. However, you may find at the end that you are still a Christian, but that you are a different kind of Christian than those around you. That would be O.K. You may have a different understanding of Christ and faith in Christ than they do. And who is to say that their's is right and yours is wrong? No one is in charge of your soul but you.
Good luck.
1. Again, if something is true, you wouldn't have to resort to scorn and ridicule to keep people believing it, would you.
2. This is going to sound weird coming from an atheist. For myself, I concluded that I do not believe that God exists. However, you may find at the end that you are still a Christian, but that you are a different kind of Christian than those around you. That would be O.K. You may have a different understanding of Christ and faith in Christ than they do. And who is to say that their's is right and yours is wrong? No one is in charge of your soul but you.
Good luck.
methylatedghosts
Can't brain. Has dumb.
For the first time ever I believe, I am in a kind of agreement with S-U on one sentence.
But maybe not for the same reasons.
The problem might be that you are actually LOOKING for god. You are searching for god. When you say "I am looking for God", it is a statement of lack. You are essentially stating that you can't find God. Just be open to the possiblity that you never really needed to look for God. You just need to see withIN.
Not sure if I worded that correctly =\
Anyway, that might have brought a little light to my signature too.
But maybe not for the same reasons.
The problem might be that you are actually LOOKING for god. You are searching for god. When you say "I am looking for God", it is a statement of lack. You are essentially stating that you can't find God. Just be open to the possiblity that you never really needed to look for God. You just need to see withIN.
Not sure if I worded that correctly =\
Anyway, that might have brought a little light to my signature too.