People Who Are Against Gay Marriage Aren't Thinking Things Through.

[kjw47]

Injunctions against homosexuality are Mosaic Law.

1 corinthians 6:9-11

 

[InfidelRiot]

1 corinthians 6:9-11

The original word used in that scripture is effeminate, not homosexual. It is a common misconception that all homosexuals are effeminate. In fact, plenty of heterosexual men are effeminate.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 KJV - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall - Bible Gateway

 

[idea]

1 Tim 1:10.... Jude 1:7 ... 2 Tim 3:3 ....2 Pet 2:10

I prefer the BLB in looking at original languages/words...

1 Cor 6:9
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G733&t=KJV

arsenokoitēs
1) one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual


in any event, it is clearly condemned in the NT.

 

[jasonwill2]

I never said men could teach 100% truth, but the teachers Jesus is with will be very close to it.
The Mosaic law was done away with or fullfilled if you want. Man could not live up to it. So now we are placed under the laws of love.

Why must others dictate what you believe about your relationship with God? No pope or watchtower society should EVER be the middleman... there should be none, only you and your god(s).

 

[javajo]

Yes those who are practicers of sin are deemed very wicked by God and also Jesus who does his God and Fathers will

What I am trying to say is that those who have a different sexual orientation than you are not the same as the folks referred to in the Bible. Let me put it this way, I know someone very dear to me who, when they hit puberty realized they were attracted to the same sex. They thought it was really gross to kiss a boy or see a girl and a boy kiss or even hold hands. It would be wrong of them to do what is not natural for them.

--At Matt 7:21-23--Jesus clearly states that its because they are workers of iniquity( lawlessness) = practicers of sin, is the reason why he never even knew them.

No, he calls them workers of iniquity because they thought they would get into Heaven by all their good works (dead works) instead of trusting in, relying on, believing on/in him.

People are told that Jesus death covered all of their sins and its not what Gods word teaches--Jesus said many times because he meant it-- Go sin no more.

Jesus told the woman taken in adultery that he did not condemn her and to go and sin no more. When we are freely forgiven and justified by Christ, of course we want to forsake sin. As far as Jesus' death covering all our sins, that is what the Bible teaches. Besides, when Jesus told people many, many times, "Thy sins be forgiven thee.", you know all of them had to be forgiven, as it says, if you are guilty of one, you are guilty of all.

Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people, thou hast covered all their sin. Selah. Psalm 85:2

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses. Col. 2:13

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. Titus 2:14

And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. Acts 13:39

 

[kjw47]

What I am trying to say is that those who have a different sexual orientation than you are not the same as the folks referred to in the Bible. Let me put it this way, I know someone very dear to me who, when they hit puberty realized they were attracted to the same sex. They thought it was really gross to kiss a boy or see a girl and a boy kiss or even hold hands. It would be wrong of them to do what is not natural for them.No, he calls them workers of iniquity because they thought they would get into Heaven by all their good works (dead works) instead of trusting in, relying on, believing on/in him.Jesus told the woman taken in adultery that he did not condemn her and to go and sin no more. When we are freely forgiven and justified by Christ, of course we want to forsake sin. As far as Jesus' death covering all our sins, that is what the Bible teaches. Besides, when Jesus told people many, many times, "Thy sins be forgiven thee.", you know all of them had to be forgiven, as it says, if you are guilty of one, you are guilty of all.

Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people, thou hast covered all their sin. Selah. Psalm 85:2

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses. Col. 2:13

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. Titus 2:14

And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. Acts 13:39

Actually 1 cor 6:9-11--- says this plainly-- it starts by saying-- do not be mislead-- neither fornicators( sex out of marriage) idolitors,adulterers,men( women) kept for unnatural purposes nor men who lie with men( homosexuals) nor thieves,greedy,drunkards( drug addicts most likely as well) revilers,extortioners will inherit Gods kingdom( eternal life) and yet that is what some of you were( past tense)( they repented and stopped doing those sins)-- they are unrighteous persons--unrighteous persons to God are wicked.
Paul taught at Hebrews 10:26- that Jesus sacrafice doesnt count for those who practice sin( worker of iniquity)
Yes Jesus taught many times-- Go sin no more--because he meant it.

 

[InfidelRiot]

Actually 1 cor 6:9-11--- says this plainly--

It all depends where one gets the translation and from which interpretation it arose. For instance:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

King James Version (KJV)

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+6:9-11&version=KJV

Not one mention of homosexuality or men lying with men. If Christians cannot agree on how to interpret scripture, what makes them so certain of its accuracy each time they use it to accuse someone else of sin?

 

[Alceste]

It all depends where one gets the translation and from which interpretation it arose. For instance:



Not one mention of homosexuality or men lying with men. If Christians cannot agree on how to interpret scripture, what makes them so certain of its accuracy each time they use it to accuse someone else of sin?

That verse seems to be saying that even females aren't allowed to be effeminate. Clear as mud.

 

[jasonwill2]

My religion teaches that Satan embraces all sexual orientations.

 

[sojourner]

Actually 1 cor 6:9-11--- says this plainly-- it starts by saying-- do not be mislead-- neither fornicators( sex out of marriage) idolitors,adulterers,men( women) kept for unnatural purposes nor men who lie with men( homosexuals) nor thieves,greedy,drunkards( drug addicts most likely as well) revilers,extortioners will inherit Gods kingdom( eternal life) and yet that is what some of you were( past tense)( they repented and stopped doing those sins)-- they are unrighteous persons--unrighteous persons to God are wicked.
Paul taught at Hebrews 10:26- that Jesus sacrafice doesnt count for those who practice sin( worker of iniquity)
Yes Jesus taught many times-- Go sin no more--because he meant it.

Except that the parenthetical statement isn't included, and is nothing more than your opinion of the text.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

That verse seems to be saying that even females aren't allowed to be effeminate. Clear as mud.

Probably because females weren't exactly considered real, thinking, rational human beings?

But you're right. It's as clear as mud.

 

[Alceste]

Probably because females weren't exactly considered real, thinking, rational human beings?

But you're right. It's as clear as mud.

And what's a "fornicator"? Sounds like fun.

 

[javajo]

Actually 1 cor 6:9-11--- says this plainly-- it starts by saying-- do not be mislead-- neither fornicators( sex out of marriage) idolitors,adulterers,men( women) kept for unnatural purposes nor men who lie with men( homosexuals) nor thieves,greedy,drunkards( drug addicts most likely as well) revilers,extortioners will inherit Gods kingdom( eternal life) and yet that is what some of you were( past tense)( they repented and stopped doing those sins)-- they are unrighteous persons--unrighteous persons to God are wicked.
Paul taught at Hebrews 10:26- that Jesus sacrafice doesnt count for those who practice sin( worker of iniquity)
Yes Jesus taught many times-- Go sin no more--because he meant it.

I believe Hebrews 10 means people who reject Christ's finished work and the sin he refers to is unbelief. Anyone who trusts Christ to have paid their sin-debt is saved just as they are. The Holy Spirit then works in the freely saved believer to show them anything in their lives that displeases the Lord. I know many people believe the Bible teaches that being of a different sexual orientation than hetero is a sin. I don't believe it does. As I said, a dear close family member of mine, when they hit puberty, discovered they were gay. She trusted Christ at a very young age and had a great childhood and is a very wonderful, kind and loving person. She has been finishing school since junior high at home on an online school because of the bullying that almost killed her. She is not the sinner here.

 

[kjw47]

I believe Hebrews 10 means people who reject Christ's finished work and the sin he refers to is unbelief. Anyone who trusts Christ to have paid their sin-debt is saved just as they are. The Holy Spirit then works in the freely saved believer to show them anything in their lives that displeases the Lord. I know many people believe the Bible teaches that being of a different sexual orientation than hetero is a sin. I don't believe it does. As I said, a dear close family member of mine, when they hit puberty, discovered they were gay. She trusted Christ at a very young age and had a great childhood and is a very wonderful, kind and loving person. She has been finishing school since junior high at home on an online school because of the bullying that almost killed her. She is not the sinner here.

At Matt 7:21-23-- Jesus clearly says-- get away from me you workers of iniquity( practicers of sin) yet they had such a strong enough love for him they did powerful works in his name, obviously believed on him and would call on his name---- i would say were told they were saved as well. Those are Jesus words at judgement. Its the practice of the gross sins listed in Gods word that will not be forgiven. Repented sin is forgiven--- and as one finds at 1 cor 6:9-11-- it says-- that is what some of you were( past tense). True repentence is the stopping of the doing of a sin, not just asking forgivness.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The above graphic is a bit irrational. It is a straw man argument of circular thinking: "If one is atheist he's rational; if he's religious, he's irrational".

Not really. Just because a person is religious doesn't mean that they're against same-sex marriage.

And I don't see how your statement is circular. It's just an unsupported assertion, AFAICT. Not particularly compelling, but not a logical fallacy, either.

Furthermore, one may automatically note the use of idioms like "culture", "advance", and "grow up". A half a millenium long flaw in "modern" thinking, that is 'we represent civilization and everyone needs to progress to what we believe in order to be civilized'. It's not really that different from imperialist logic.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to use the term "imperialist logic" to describe the position that says "hey - let's not oppress people!"

 

[MysticSang'ha]

The above graphic is a bit irrational. It is a straw man argument of circular thinking: "If one is atheist he's rational; if he's religious, he's irrational".

Furthermore, one may automatically note the use of idioms like "culture", "advance", and "grow up". A half a millenium long flaw in "modern" thinking, that is 'we represent civilization and everyone needs to progress to what we believe in order to be civilized'. It's not really that different from imperialist logic.

Also phrases like ‎"Get with the times! This is 2012!" are essentially an "appeal to novelty".

Welcome to RF! :foryou:

I love it when people throw in monkey wrenches.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The above graphic is a bit irrational. It is a straw man argument of circular thinking: "If one is atheist he's rational; if he's religious, he's irrational".

That position is not at all represented in the flow chart, it even has a spot for people who are against it just because of the ick factor, in which there are atheist who fit into that category.

Furthermore, one may automatically note the use of idioms like "culture", "advance", and "grow up". A half a millenium long flaw in "modern" thinking, that is 'we represent civilization and everyone needs to progress to what we believe in order to be civilized'. It's not really that different from imperialist logic.

Typically that is true, that progress isn't always progress, advances are not always good, and calling yourself civilized doesn't automatically make you any different than those you call barbarians. But given the issue at hand, which is granting civil liberties that the majority enjoys but is denied to a minority group because of religious or flawed reasons, does not fit into such a line of thinking.

 

[Zoe Doidge]

People who are homophobic aren't thinking at all. They're only regurgitating religious propaganda.

Rubbish, I know atheists who are just as homophobic, and religious people who are not.

Just to make things simple for those who still don't understand:

Who cares what people (religious or otherwise) personally believe in regards to homosexuality? It's their lives and for them to choose. The issue is when they try to enforce their beliefs as part of law for everyone to follow.

 

[ChristineES]

The above graphic is a bit irrational. It is a straw man argument of circular thinking: "If one is atheist he's rational; if he's religious, he's irrational".

Furthermore, one may automatically note the use of idioms like "culture", "advance", and "grow up". A half a millenium long flaw in "modern" thinking, that is 'we represent civilization and everyone needs to progress to what we believe in order to be civilized'. It's not really that different from imperialist logic.

Also phrases like ‎"Get with the times! This is 2012!" are essentially an "appeal to novelty".

Welcome to the RF.

This discussion isn't really about religious vs. non-religious-- it is more about legal marriage and religious marriage. All marriages have to be legal but not all marriages have to be religious. Not everybody in a society is of the same religion and not everyone is even religious at all. We don't have to accept everything but we all should at least have tolerance.

 

[fantome profane]

Welcome to the RF.

This discussion isn't really about religious vs. non-religious-- it is more about legal marriage and religious marriage. All marriages have to be legal but not all marriages have to be religious. Not everybody in a society is of the same religion and not everyone is even religious at all. We don't have to accept everything but we all should at least have tolerance.

Exactly right, we all have different religious viewpoints. But we are all supose to be treated equally under the law.