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Featured Peace & Security or Sudden Destruction?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by nPeace, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    As I have said, Paul is the man of lawlessness, who has presumably released you from the Law (Romans 7:6), and who commits lawlessness (Matthew 13:41) & (Romans 7:25) and will be "gathered out", and thrown into the furnace of fire (Matthew 13:42). And there are many harlot "daughters of Babylon" (Revelation 17:5), and Judah and Israel are a minority. The Roman church and her daughters comprise the majority remaining stake holders. You will find the "house of Israel" "scattered among the nations/Gentiles" (Ezekiel 36:17 &19). They need to "come out of her"/escape (Revelation 18:4) & (Zechariah 2:7). Those that will survive the "awesome day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32) are those "on Mount Zion, and in Jerusalem". That was not the case in 70 A.D. As for the spirit of the Paul's law, that would most likely be his false prophet demon spirit, as spoken in Revelation 16:13.
     
  2. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Why would one be concerned about a supposed prophecy from a supposed writing of a false prophet? As for light and darkness of 1 Thessalonians 5:3, Yeshua came as a light and was rejected for the darkness of the Pharisee of Pharisees incorporated into his false gospel of grace/cross. The followers of Paul are expecting to escape the coming overwhelming scourge, but that will apparently not happen (Isaiah 28:15-18).

    It is the "shepherds" who eat the fat of the sheep and do not feed, tend or heal the sheep, who are in for a big surprise (Ezekiel 34:1-24).
     
  3. Oeste

    Oeste Well-Known Member

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    Are you serious 2ndPillar? Do you really think you do not sin, or that you actually keep the law?

    There is no "presumption" about our release. Jesus was the first and last to keep the law. His work on the cross made atonement for the sins of mankind.

    There’s no need to gather wheat from tare if you and the Watchtower have already completed the work. Perhaps the only thing holding off our planet's final judgement is for the two of you to get together, take a good long look at each other and decide... Is there one more tare? :eek:

    Like the Watchtower, the "Messianic Christian"/"Hebrew Roots"/"Sacred Name" movement...of which you appear to be a card carrying member...are all relatively recent phenomenons.
     
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  4. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Well, apparently you do not keep the Law, which would kind of make you lawless. And what happens to the lawless, the sinners (1 John 3:4), well they are of the "devil" (1 John 3:8), and according to Matthew 13:41-42, will be gathered out and cast into the furnace of fire. Now who is going to save you, well of course the false prophets of Matthew 7:15, whose tree produces rotten fruit, or specifically in the case of "many" of Paul's followers, no good fruit, and therefore will be "cut down and thrown into the fire" (Matthew 3:10). As for who does not sin, well, that would be the "one who is born of God", "because His seed abides in him" (1 John 3:9). As for what is going to happen in the future, well the "stick" of Ephraim (house of Israel), who is "scattered among the nations/Gentiles" (Ezekiel 36:17 & 19), will be reunited with the "stick" of Judah (Ezekiel 37), and they will be given a new heart and a new spirit (Ezekiel 36:24-28) and live on the "land I gave to your forefathers" (Ezekiel 36:28 & Ezekiel 37:25), and have "My servant David … king over them... and they will keep My statutes, and observe them." As for the nations/Gentiles, well, the ones who "are left" will come to Jerusalem to worship the King (Zechariah 14:16) on the "Feast of Booths". Should they, like yourself, not care to keep that ordinance, they will go without rain (Zechariah 14:17). As for Israel, the combined stick of Judah and Ephraim, "My sanctuary is in their midst forever" (Ezekiel 37:23). The coming valley of judgment is for the nations/Gentiles (Joel 3:2).
     
  5. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Well, Watchtower, Messianic Christians, etc., like yourself, are followers of the false prophet Paul. They are apparently on the same "broad" "way" that leads to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13). As for your long standing roots, they were planted by the Roman Emperor Constantine, the "beast with two horns like a lamb" (Revelation 13:11, who is the "another beast/king", who will "wear down the saints" for "time, times, and half a time" (Daniel 7:23-25), until the "court will sit for judgment", and the kingdom will be given to the "saints of the highest one" (Daniel 7:26:27). That time, the "end time", "the end of the age", when Daniel will have his "allotted portion", is upon us. (Daniel 12:6-13). Apparently, you will not have the appropriate out wear (Revelation 19:8), and will not be given a place at the table. But then again, you have probably been well fed your whole life, and do not need someone else's dinner.
     
  6. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    And yet you will die (Jeremiah 31:30), despite what the serpent and his right hand man Paul might have been hawking (Genesis 3:4). The consequence of sin is death. There is no escaping death, despite what Paul and the serpent may have promised.
     
  7. Oeste

    Oeste Well-Known Member

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    And you do?

    And you not?

    What is it with all these holier than thou religions? A new one seems to pop up every other day, all stranger than the one preceding it, all claiming to be the original or "true" religion.

    Of course! This is why we need a Savior.

    There’s only one Savior and neither Matthew or Paul are it.

    Yes, Jesus would be the one, and since you’ve already told us that those who sin are "of the devil" it leaves those who think they "keep the law" between a rock and a hard place.

    2 Chronicles 6:36

    “When they sin against you—for there is no one who does not sin —and you become angry with them...

    Job 4:17

    ‘Can a mortal be more righteous than God? Can even a strong man be more pure than his Maker?​

    Proverbs 20:9

    Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin”?

    Romans 3:12

    All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one​


    "Messianic Christians" put themselves under the Law. As such they see a need to attack New Testament scripture by undermining Paul.

    Well thanks for the heads up but I'm not worried about it. Jesus got up for a reason. :)
     
  8. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Well, you are apparently on the road laid out by Paul (Matthew 7:13), the road to "destruction", but to get into the "kingdom of heaven" at hand (Matthew 4:17), one must be more righteous than the Pharisees, including the Pharisee of Pharisees, Paul. (Matthew 5:20). Not that I am saying you understand what the "kingdom of heaven, at hand" means, but it is opposite of your false prophet Paul's gospel of grace/cross. You have saints, the wheat, and you have sinners/wicked, the tares. The word of the kingdom, is the "good seed" (Matthew 13:19), and you have the "tare seed", which is the word of lawlessness, the gospel of grace/cross. As for making claims, you seem to be the one making claims, I am only using the testimony of Yeshua to point out the flaws in your positions. God laughs at the sinners, for he knows their day is coming.(Psalms 37:13) Revel in your sins now, because there maybe no joy later. (Revelation 14:10).

    https://biblehub.com/psalms/37-13.htm
    but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming.
     
  9. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Titus Flavius Vespasianus is called the man of lawlessness because he permanently put an end to the practice of the Law by destroying the Jewish Temple in A.D. 70 thereby making it impossible to fully follow the customs of the Law of Moses.
     
  10. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    According to Yeshua, the sinners need to repent, and according to Matthew 3, be baptized, by either the spirit of God, or by fire, and confess their sins, and produce good fruit. It looks like there will be many baptized by the furnace of fire (Matthew 13:42). As for being "saved", Yeshua said one must "endure to the end" (Matthew 24:13). And who are those who "escape"/"survive (Joel 2:31-32) the "awesome day of the LORD", well, it is those "on Mount Zion, and in Jerusalem". And who are those on Mount Zion, the "holy mountain" of God, well, it is those who "hold fast My covenant" (Isaiah 56:6-7).
     
  11. slackercruster

    slackercruster New Member

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  12. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Titus had negligible affect on the your already lawless "Christians". God already told the Jews he wanted justice and mercy above sacrifice (Hosea 6:6). The "Christians" did not look at Titus as the "coming man of lawlessness". Titus was simply the 10th horn of the beast, the son of the 9th horn of the beast. Titus was not a prophet, or a false prophet, he was part of the beast who was to bring judgment onto Judah (Hosea 5).

    https://biblehub.com/hosea/6-6.htm
    For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings. ... and not sacrifice, And a knowledge of God above burnt-offerings
     
  13. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    The Jews did.. The Christians left for Pella and missed the tribulation.

    There were many antichrists.

    But Vespasian and Titus Did Not Die And Rome Did Not Fall in A.D. 70? - Revelation Revolution
     
  14. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Titus had negligible affect on the your already lawless "Christians". God already told the Jews he wanted justice and mercy above sacrifice (Hosea 6:6). The "Christians" did not look at Titus as the "coming man of lawlessness". Titus was simply the 10th horn of the beast, the son of the 9th horn of the beast. Titus was not a prophet, or a false prophet, he was part of the beast who was to bring judgment onto Judah (Hosea 5).

    https://biblehub.com/hosea/6-6.htm
    For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings. ... and not sacrifice, And a knowledge of God above burnt-offerings

    I think all "Christians" are "Messianic Christians" and few put themselves "under the Law". As for Messianic Jews, most of them apparently accept the New Testament, and apparently are more confused than your average straight "Christian". I hope you are not calling me a "Christian" or a "Messianic Christian". I am just trying to point out what I perceive as your double mindedness.

    https://www.jewishvoice.org/learn/messianic-jews
    Messianic Jews
    embrace the entire Hebrew Bible and the entire New Testament as fully Spirit-inspired Holy Writ. Do Messianic Jews subscribe to keeping the laws of the Old Testament? In keeping with their Jewish cultural backgrounds, many Messianic Jews continue to celebrate the biblical feasts and festivals and other parts of the Mosaic Covenant as they apply without a Temple standing in Jerusalem
     
  15. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Why do you believe that being more righteous than the Pharisees means keeping the law better than they did? Maybe it means righteous as in these. Matthew 5:3-12
     
  16. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    I think Yeshua spells out "more righteous" using Matthew 5:21-48, which in conclusion, is that "you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect" (Matthew 5:48). Your humility proceeds you if you think you are "gentle", "merciful", "pure in heart", "peace maker", and "persecuted for the sake of righteousness", etc.
     
  17. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Paul was run out of Jerusalem. His "Christian" followers would be mostly Ephesians, the Corinthians, the Galatians, etc.. It was not until Constantine, the "other beast" of Revelation 13:11 that the "Christians" over ran Jerusalem seeking relics and building churches. As for the valley of judgment (Joel 3:2), that is projected at the nations/Gentiles for the way they treated Israel, "My inheritance", not at Judah. As for the tribulation, the falling away, the wars, the persecution, etc., we are in the "tribulation". It is the "great tribulation which is coming up (Matthew 24:21).

    Joel 3:2 I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will put them on trial for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel, because they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.
     
  18. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    It was a great tribulation.. Why would you minimize their suffering? Have you read Josephus? Titus hired him to write the history so he was sort of sugar coating it, but it was terrible.

    Its true that Christians had no interest in Jerusalem until Constantine's mother took an interest in finding the holy sites.

    The Valley of Jehoshaphat is the same as the “valley of decision.”... probably Kidron.

    Some literalists and evangelicals believe that during the millennium Christ rules as king from Jerusalem... instead of a spiritual kingdom.
     
  19. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    I think Yeshua "got up" to provide a "way", and a "light", but "darkness" was the path chosen by the "many" (John 1:5) & (Matthew 7:13). Yeshua spoke in parables so that only those with ears to hear could understand. (Matthew 13:13). The "wicked"/sinners, would never "understand" (Daniel 12:10).

    John 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
     
  20. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    What does it mean, "Your humility proceeds you if you think".

    Being gentle, merciful, pure in heart" is what God and others "think" about it. I can say for sure that I am persecuted. To me, it means treated as a nonentity. Like, dead. But, I live in America. God bless it! So, physically, I have not been persecuted. Sometimes, I wonder if they might find me I would be silenced. Oh, and everyone on this planet treats me as though I do not exist. Maybe, I don't. ;)
     
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