Pat Robertson: Stroke is God's wrath

[Quoth The Raven]

Satan and all of his followers in the spirit, and on earth. They are all the cuase of everything that is bad or evil and destructive on earth. Look at the story of Job, God points out this fact, by allowing Satan to destroy Job's life. God's hand was stayed while Job had almost full power over his life. Satan even caused freak storms that destroyed Job's property.

Really, is it that bad to give up a chunk of land that will help bring peace? Are not all people God's people? I believe that to be so, so why would he care if one group had some land instead of another group? To me, I think that this God would have to be very petty to want his Chosen to go day after day having to wonder if their going to get blown up, when it's possible that it would stop it with them having just a bit less land.

Is it that bad that you or I give away parts of America to the extreme Islamic terrorists or anyone else for peace? You have not looked at Bible history. The Jews have always had an enemy. The Philistines were constantly messing with the Jewish people. David and Goliath is a story that all will remember. Philistine-Palestine. You get the idea. I am sure that they are descendents of this great power, in the history of the Bible. The Palestinians are not in it for peace, they are in it to conquer the land of Jerusalem, by buying or forcing the Jews off their own land. I would be furious too, if this was happening to America or my personal land. I can imagine how God feels. He we allows it to happen to a certain degree. God allows evil to happen for a certain amount of time, then comes judgement. Judgement will fall, eventually, on all those that fight and oppose the state of Isreal and the Jews and all those that call themselves Christian or accept Christ as their Savior. What is happening now with Isreal will result in a final battle called Armageddon, in the valley of Megiddo, in Isreal.

This is a FALSE PEACE and will only lead in to the destruction of those that support it. We must not support it either. God says those that bless Isreal will be blessed and those that curse and fight against Isreal will be cursed, and then destroyed, eventually.

No doubt you would also be rather vexed if some people you didn't know came in and created a sovereign state for someone you really didn't like, slap bang in the middle of your orange grove.
You might even be moved to try and have them evicted.

 

[Eynah]

Is it that bad that you or I give away parts of America to the extreme Islamic terrorists or anyone else for peace? You have not looked at Bible history. The Jews have always had an enemy. The Philistines were constantly messing with the Jewish people. David and Goliath is a story that all will remember. Philistine-Palestine. You get the idea. I am sure that they are descendents of this great power, in the history of the Bible. The Palestinians are not in it for peace, they are in it to conquer the land of Jerusalem, by buying or forcing the Jews off their own land. I would be furious too, if this was happening to America or my personal land. I can imagine how God feels. He we allows it to happen to a certain degree. God allows evil to happen for a certain amount of time, then comes judgement. Judgement will fall, eventually, on all those that fight and oppose the state of Isreal and the Jews and all those that call themselves Christian or accept Christ as their Savior. What is happening now with Isreal will result in a final battle called Armageddon, in the valley of Megiddo, in Isreal.

This is a FALSE PEACE and will only lead in to the destruction of those that support it. We must not support it either. God says those that bless Isreal will be blessed and those that curse and fight against Isreal will be cursed, and then destroyed, eventually.

I didn't realise that all Palestinians were "Extreme Islamic Terrorists", that they weren't in it for peace. I'm fairly certain that if you spoke to some Palestinians you would realise that not all are terrorists, and in fact consider peace a very important thing. Both sides have resorted to terrorism at times, yes, but that doesn't make all of them terrorists.

How do you know what God feels? I really think that unless You're able to be Him, or He has talked to you and said that this is how He feels, then you shouldn't be saying. I myself wouldn't say that I know. I don't think that Pat Robertson knows either.

However, I'm going to stop this now as this wasn't meant to become a debate. Thank you for your opinions in this, I think that I'm a better person for hearing them. It was an interesting one as well.

 

[FFH]

"Wrath of SATAN" would be a more accurate statement than saying the "Wrath of God". A few less chesse burgers would have helped Sharon avoid a stroke too. YOu know what I mean? We destroy our own bodies, not God. Shoron himself said jokingly, "I just need to go on a diet" just prior to his stroke, because he had had some health problems, and a small heart attack, i think, I can't remember why he said that. It was in the news yesterday. We destroy ourselves, along with the help of Satan who whisper in our ears to do things that will destroy our health and our spiritual lives. Don't blame everything on God, it is not his fault, it is our fault. God want to bless us but He needs our cooporation. We are to stubborn and would rather sin and have our full will in our lives.

 

[FFH]

You all put words in my mouth, I never said that all or any Palestinians were terrorists. There are extremists in every society and in every religion. All I am saying is that the Palestinians are not interested in peace, THEY ARE INTERESTED IN TAKING OVER ALL OF ISREAL'S LAND FROM THE JEWS. This is a subtle terrorist action. GIVE ME YOUR LAND AND I WILL PROMISE NOT TO TERRORIZE YOU OR KILL YOU. Wow that sounds like a good peace treaty to me, not. GIVE ME YOUR LAND IN EXCHANGE FOR A FALSE PEACE. THE PALESTINIANS WILL DESTROY THEM ANYWAYS AFTER TAKING AWAY ALL OF THEIR LAND. THEY ARE ONLY TRICKING PEOPLE IN BELIEVING THEY HAVE GOOD INTENTIONS.. THIS IS NOT TRUE. I am sure there are good Palestinians as there are good Jews. The leaders of the Palestinians are evil and have evil intentions, not good ones. They could care less about the well being of the Jews. My point is no one should be THREATENED with WAR (the opposite of peace) OR TERRORIST ACTIONS, if they don't give up THEIR land. This is not a peaceful nation. The Palestinians only want the land of the Jews and are subtly threatening them with the possibility of a world war and world terrorism, if they don't give up their land. The Palestinian leaders are modern day terrorists. They use the threat of possible death to get their way. This is terrorism. Extreme terrorists just kill and don't accept bargains.

 

[FFH]

The Jews will eventually have to flee to a place, in the wilderness, called Petra, in the southern part of Isreal. The landscape in that area is very similar to southern Utah. Petra is an ancient place which was inhabited, but is now uninhabited. Many caves and holes in the rocks carved out for people to live in. Do a google on Petra and you can find out more about this place and how it will be used by the Jews in order to flee their enemies and avoid being destroyed. This is a prophecy in the Bible. The Jews will flee to Petra to escape destruction from all of their enemies.

 

[FFH]

No doubt you would also be rather vexed if some people you didn't know came in and created a sovereign state for someone you really didn't like, slap bang in the middle of your orange grove.
You might even be moved to try and have them evicted.

It was the Jews land in the first place. They were taking back what was rightfully theirs in the first place. The Philistines/Palestinians have been harassing and intimidating the Jews for centuries. This is nothing new. History repeats itself over and over. Bible history is no different. It repeats itself, and the same old scenarios are played out again and again. Saddam Hussein said that he was the modern day equivilant to Nebuchadnezzar (ancient ruler of Babylon), and wanted to rebuild Babylon, which is modern day Iraq. Saddam Hussein began rebuilding on the very same ancient walls of Babylon, that had been destroyed or deteriorated, and had restored a lot of the old structures. He never got a chance to finish them, poor Saddam/Satan.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

So you're not fond of the Palestinians then?
And if a First Nations tribe wanted your orange grove on the grounds they used to own it, would you just roll over then?

 

[Bastet]

Goodness me, can we say "nutjob"?

 

[FFH]

So you're not fond of the Palestinians then?
And if a First Nations tribe wanted your orange grove on the grounds they used to own it, would you just roll over then?

If one of my ancestors had stolen the land from it's rightful owners, centuries before, then I would feel an obligation to give it back, to one of the owner's descendents, if he asked. If there was a record of ownership. That was God's land set aside for the Jews and there is a record of that in the Bible, which you may not think is valid. The land clearly was stolen from them and they were driven and scattered into all parts of the world. They took back what was stolen from them centuries before. They have a legal right to it, no matter how much time passes. The Jews should not have to move or be threatened with their lives if they don't leave. This is terrorism. Threatening a life if you don't comply with an order. This is a false peace and will lead to destruction of the Jews and a complete takeover of the land of Isreal if the Jews do not fight back. The Bible says they will end up fleeing into the wilderness to Petra, in southern Isreal.

Shoould the Jews just allow the Palestinians to jusr roll over THEM? The Palestinians don't want to live together in peace with the Jews, they want to steam roll over every last one of them and drive everyone of them off of their land or destroy them if they won't comply. If the Jews do no leave their land then they will be driven off their land or be destroyed. Wow sounds like great neighbors to me. Palestinian rulers care nothing about anyone but themselves. They are fighting against God when they mess with the Jews. Don't mess with the Jews unless you want God agianst you. I guess the Palestinians don't care about that. After all most of them are Muslim and worship a totally different God than that of the Bible.

 

[Eynah]

If one of my ancestors had stolen the land from it's rightful owners, centuries before, then I would feel an obligation to give it back, to one of the owner's descendents, if he asked. If there was a record of ownership. That was God's land set aside for the Jews and there is a record of that in the Bible, which you may not think is valid. The land clearly was stolen from them and they were driven and scattered into all parts of the world. They took back what was stolen from them centuries before. They have a legal right to it, no matter how much time passes. The Jews should not have to move or be threatened with their lives if they don't leave. This is terrorism. Threatening a life if you don't comply with an order. This is a false peace and will lead to destruction of the Jews and a complete takeover of the land of Isreal if the Jews do not fight back.

Shoould the Jews just allow the Palestinians to jusr roll over THEM? The Palestinians don't want to live together in peace with the Jews, they want to steam roll over every last one of them and drive everyone of them off of their land or destroy them if they won't comply. If the Jews do no leave their land then they will be driven off their land or be destroyed. Wow sounds like great neighbors to me. Palestinian rulers care nothing about anyone but themselves. They are fighting against God when they mess with the Jews. Don't mess with the Jews unless you want God agianst you. I guess the Palestinians don't care about that. After all most of them are Muslim and worship a totally different God than that of the Bible.

So, if say the Native Americans came to the Gov. of Utah, and said that they wanted their land back, would you give it to them? If you were in the position to do it. I mean, history has stated that it was their land.

Also, the Jewish people are as much at fault for the violence as the Palestinians are. They themselves have done bombings of area in the Palestine 'land' of Israel.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

And I think you may find there's a record of the First Nations living where they lived, too. The only difference is that you see biblical reference as a record of ownership in the case of Israel,and you'd probably like to see something a little more tangible if it came to your own property.
The bible doesn't actually confer legal rights, last time I checked. Sometimes it's even got stuff in it that's been made up.
And here was I thinking that Islam was an Abrahamic religion. Quick, someone tell the Admin's so they can move the Islamic Discussion Forum to it's rightful place! Wherever that may be.
As to the original topic, Pat Robertson is unfortunately a tool of epic proportions. Any right thinking god would shrivel with embarassment every time he presumed to speak for him, considering the drivel that he comes up with and touts as the word of God.

 

[FFH]

This is not about disliking a nation it's about rights to a land. Who has the right to the land. Put all likes and dislikes aside. The Jews feel they have a right to live there but are being forced out by Palestinian leaders, who care nothing about anyone but their personal agendas. I blame the leaders of the Palestinians for what is going on, the people themselves really play a very small part. How can you blame the Palestinian people for the actions of it's leaders, whom I am sure some support and some do not.

 

[Eynah]

This is not about disliking a nation it's about rights to a land. Who has the right to the land. Put all likes and dislikes aside. The Jews feel they have a right to live there but are being forced out by Palestinian leaders, who care nothing about anyone but their personal agendas. I blame the leaders of the Palestinians for what is going on, the people themselves really play a very small part. How can you blame the Palestinian people for the actions of it's leaders, whom I am sure some support and some do not.

The Palestinians feel they have a right to live there also. The Jews ended up leaving, and the Palestinians then became the owners to the land. If anything, that says to me that the Palestinians have more of a right, bible or not.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

I'll take a punt here and bet that Sharon's actions were not motivated by an overwhelming sympathy toward Palestine. He may even have had 'an agenda' all his own. Of course, as God has struck him down - as revealed to us by the great and completely level headed 'Mouthpiece of God' - he was obviously just bending over the desk with a smile on his face.

 

[FFH]

So, if say the Native Americans came to the Gov. of Utah, and said that they wanted their land back, would you give it to them? If you were in the position to do it. I mean, history has stated that it was their land.

Also, the Jewish people are as much at fault for the violence as the Palestinians are. They themselves have done bombings of area in the Palestine 'land' of Israel.

I knew that someone would bring up the Native American scenario. You have to answer that for yourself. Personally I don't own any land and I probably never will in this life. I am worse off than most Indians in this country. At least the government has given some money in compensation for land taken from Native Americans and the government still compensates them to this day. That is more than I can say for the Palestinians. We don't threaten Native Americans and terrorize them. Give me your land for peace or move out or be destroyed. We live on the same land and do not terrorize each other. We can both be civil and not threaten each other. We both worship the same God, or at least most of us do.

I am sure there are evil people on each side of this Jew/Palestinian issue. It's not about this it's about rights to a land. The rights to at least live peacably together on land that was given to you by your ancestors. The Palestinians do not want to live peacably with the Jews, they want them to leave or be destroyed alltogether.

 

[Bishka]

If one of my ancestors had stolen the land from it's rightful owners, centuries before, then I would feel an obligation to give it back, to one of the owner's descendents, if he asked. If there was a record of ownership. That was God's land set aside for the Jews and there is a record of that in the Bible, which you may not think is valid. The land clearly was stolen from them and they were driven and scattered into all parts of the world. They took back what was stolen from them centuries before. They have a legal right to it, no matter how much time passes. The Jews should not have to move or be threatened with their lives if they don't leave. This is terrorism. Threatening a life if you don't comply with an order. This is a false peace and will lead to destruction of the Jews and a complete takeover of the land of Isreal if the Jews do not fight back. The Bible says they will end up fleeing into the wilderness to Petra, in southern Isreal.

Shoould the Jews just allow the Palestinians to jusr roll over THEM? The Palestinians don't want to live together in peace with the Jews, they want to steam roll over every last one of them and drive everyone of them off of their land or destroy them if they won't comply. If the Jews do no leave their land then they will be driven off their land or be destroyed. Wow sounds like great neighbors to me. Palestinian rulers care nothing about anyone but themselves. They are fighting against God when they mess with the Jews. Don't mess with the Jews unless you want God agianst you. I guess the Palestinians don't care about that. After all most of them are Muslim and worship a totally different God than that of the Bible.

Yes, there is a record in the Bible, but most Palestentians are Muslim and take the Qur'an to be the higher law. Just thought I'd point that out.

 

[FFH]

I'll take a punt here and bet that Sharon's actions were not motivated by an overwhelming sympathy toward Palestine. He may even have had 'an agenda' all his own. Of course, as God has struck him down - as revealed to us by the great and completely level headed 'Mouthpiece of God' - he was obviously just bending over the desk with a smile on his face.

Yes Sharon had an agenda that did not reflect the majority of the Jews on this issue. How he got away with this is beyond me. Corrupt leaders I would say, on both sides. The people, on both sides, suffer at the hands of corrupt leaders, on this issue. Good people on both sides, I want to make this clear. It is not all black and white. We only see the actions of corrupt leaders and a few citizens.

 

[Bishka]

I knew that someone would bring up the Native American scenario. You have to answer that for yourself. Personally I don't own any land and I probably never will in this life. I am worse off than most Indians in this country. At least the government has given some money in compensation for land taken from Native Americans and the government still compensates them to this day. That is more than I can say for the Palestinians. We don't threaten Native Americans and terrorize them. Give me your land for peace or move out or be destroyed. We live on the same land and do not terrorize each other. We can both be civil and not threaten each other. We both worship the same God, or at least most of us do.

I am sure there are evil people on each side of this Jew/Palestinian issue. It's not about this it's about rights to a land. The rights to at least live peacably together on land that was given to you by your ancestors. The Palestinians do not want to live peacably with the Jews, they want them to leave or be destroyed alltogether.

We don't threaten Native Americans or terroize them? You got to be kidding me. Have you studied history? We forced Native Americans off their lands, killed many of them, and then forced the remaining ones to live on reservations.

Don't tell me we didn't terroize the Natives, because by golly we did.

 

[Eynah]

I knew that someone would bring up the Native American scenario. You have to answer that for yourself. Personally I don't own any land and I probably never will in this life. I am worse off than most Indians in this country. At least the government has given some money in compensation for land taken from Native Americans and the government still compensates them to this day. That is more than I can say for the Palestinians. We don't threaten Native Americans and terrorize them. Give me your land for peace or move out or be destroyed. We live on the same land and do not terrorize each other. We can both be civil and not threaten each other. We both worship the same God, or at least most of us do.

I am sure there are evil people on each side of this Jew/Palestinian issue. It's not about this it's about rights to a land. The rights to at least live peacably together land that was given to you by your ancestors. The Palestinians do not want to live peacably with the Jews, they want them to leave or be destroyed alltogether.

But that's not what you're saying. What you think should happen is that Israel should have the land, and guess what, they do. They've taken it, after leaving it, from the Palestinians. You say that the Palestinians don't want to live peacefully with the Jews, but I do not see how this is true. Show to me how this is true. Why do you say that the Palestinians do not want to live peacably? And I will say that I don't count terrorist bombings as proof of this, as they've happened on both sides.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

The agenda - as it appears - is to avoid having Palestinian martyrs continue blowing themselves up in shopping centres and taking little 6 year olds drinking a milkshake with them. If you have to compromise to do that, why wouldn't you? I'm sure most Jews would much rather feel able to spend a day at the mall than hang onto Gaza and the West Bank at the potential cost of their lives, or more importantly the lives of their children.
Whether Sharon was completely misguided - as you seem to feel he was - remains to be seen. Until nothing changes, you must assume the compromise is genuine. As far as it being down to the leaders all being corrupt, it seemed more often than not to be the disgruntled man on the street who was blowing himself up and shooting at the neighbours. On both sides.

But this has gone severely off topic and entered almost into a debate, so maybe - unless we're going to start another thread on it - we should get back to the dulcet and peaceloving tones of Pat Robertson.