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Featured Parents on their way to prison for not providing medical care for child.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by David1967, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    NOT for medical practice! It was for **eating** or visiting the temple only.

    Of course-- the bible is rather devoid of any and all references to actual ... medicine, so that's likely where you went wrong.

    Nope. Not "peer reviewed" .... perhaps "jesus approved lies" is the term you were looking for?

    Nope again--- unless by "many" you mean "a very select few who are not recognized generally by the rest of the medical community"...

    LMAO!

    Why do so many in that cult (JW) die from easily preventable causes?
     
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  2. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Because we don’t. Now you’re making me laugh!

    Prove me wrong....post evidence, not assertions.

    I’ll post my evidence later. Prepare to get inundated.
     
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  3. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Goat herders huh? Was Moses a goat herder? He was raised as the son of Pharaoh's daughter in Egypt which included the best available education. He penned the Law that Israel was to abide by, and did he just accidentally include quarantine measures in the case of communicable diseases....the burying of human waste....washing of hands and contaminated garments.....having no contact with dead bodies.....and dietary restrictions that saved the Israelites from many of the food borne diseases that plagued the nations around them?

    They were not to consume blood under penalty of death. If one can be fed intravenously, then taking blood into the body via the same means is technically "eating" it. The principle still applies and the law was written before blood transfusions were even thought about.

    We are not telling people that they cannot have all the blood they wish.....we are simply explaining our position scripturally. We are telling you why WE will not have blood.....the dangers are well known by the medical profession.

    It seems that the only people who are clueless here are those arguing with absolutely no knowledge of the subject matter.

    Its sad that your own arguments are so poorly researched.

    Did you watch the video I posted.....or is the Australian Government secretly advocating the position taken by Jehovah's Witnesses in exposing the dangers of blood transfusions? Please watch it.

    https://www.blood.gov.au/media

    Its not nice to accuse people of telling lies when your own claims are not substantiated. Please educate yourself.
     
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  4. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    You are absolutely right. Prayer should be used in addition to life saving medical treatment. Shouldn't a person who believes in God, also believe that God can use doctors in the healing process? I would choose a good doctor any day over one of these faith healer clowns. (don't even get me started on that). Personally I think that the pastor who would forbid a church member to seek medical help should be held accountable by the law as well. And if said "pastor" or religious leader threatened me with disfellowship, or ex-communication? Well, I would have one thing to say ; Bye Bye a$%%^e.
     
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  5. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Blood is precious and vitally important for treatment, so it ought not to be wasted. That's the reality behind your spin.
     
  6. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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  7. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    No-- because you do. It hardly seems a few months don't pass, before I'm reading about some poor schmuck who dies because of some stupid religious "magical evil" medical prohibition.

    As for "post evidence"? Naaah.... you'll just deny it, and post more Lies For Jesus fake sites, as has happened so far.
     
  8. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Nope. Here, I have to stop you -- and no, I won't be reading the rest of your post, since you begin with a flat lie.

    Moses (if he even existed at all-- highly doubtful) did not write anything, nada, nothing, not a word.

    Sorry about that, Chief. If you begin with a flat lie, I won't bother reading the rest of the preaching.
     
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  9. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    The "reality" behind my "spin" is the reality. If the medical experts are telling us that there is no other common procedure in medicine with the propensity to cause harm or death (morbidity and mortality) as much as blood transfusion does, then that to any intelligent person, (not indoctrinated by outdated medical practice,) is not rocket science.

    Would you opt for a treatment that posed such risks if there were safer alternatives? The facts are that more people have serious complications that lead to death after transfusions, than those who choose not to receive them. This is well documented.

    You want facts? There they are. We all have the same choices and understanding the risks doesn't mean that we would choose any differently for our children. Safer alternatives are available and all we would ask is that they be implemented first. It isn't just a blind religious belief....it is backed up by modern medicine.

    We are not against medical practice. We don't do faith healing.... and I agree with @David 1967 that prayer would be an important adjunct to good, up to date medical care.
     
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  10. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Now that there is just plain funny 'Max'......I just love the way you state that with such confidence!......"Moses (if he even existed at all-- highly doubtful) did not write anything, nada, nothing, not a word."
    Who told you that? And how do you know that what they have told you is true? (Was it conveyed in the cone of silence perhaps?) o_O

    You see, that's what is funny. You don't see that you are guilty of what you accuse others of doing. :rolleyes: You believe something with no real evidence because that is what you want to believe. That is your choice, and we have ours.....OK?
     
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  11. RedhorseWoman

    RedhorseWoman Active Member

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    No, taking blood through a transfusion is not "technically eating it." As you said, "It's sad that your own arguments are so poorly researched."

    A person who is malnourished is not given a blood transfusion to nourish them. If a hospital did that, the person would die. Blood taken intravenously is not food...it is a carrier of nutrients but it cannot nourish the body on its own. You need to do some research rather than simply parroting the invalid "talking points" that JWs constantly use. This argument has been debunked multiple times, but you still stick to it.

    http://ajwrb.org/is-a-blood-transfusion-a-meal
     
  12. RedhorseWoman

    RedhorseWoman Active Member

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    You speak of "safer alternatives." I do agree that I, personally, would opt for a safer alternative, but there is a caveat. If a person has suffered a traumatic injury, or, like my father, was bleeding out due to the inability of his blood to clot, then there is no "safer alternative." The only thing that can save a person's life in that situation is a blood transfusion.

    JWs opt for death in those situations and not for a "safer alternative" simply because there is none. JWs literally worship the symbol of life and are willing to sacrifice their own lives and the lives of their children in this abominable "worship" of a symbol rather than understanding that the whole prohibition was a way for humans to show respect for the life they were taking in order to sustain their own lives.
     
  13. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I asked the question about pornography for a reason, and the scripture was also for a reason.
    Scriptures do not specify laws on everything under the sun.
    Hence, there is a need for individuals to be spiritually mature in order to be able to distinguish right from wrong.

    They live by principles, so where no direct law on a particular subject, the mature persons are able to use their powers of reason to make decisions, based on their Bible trained conscience.
    In other words, because the person makes it a practice to be guided by principles, they don't need a law for every action they take. They are able to perceive what's right or wrong because they understand the principles involved.

    One still on the milk - a spiritual babe would not be able to do so. This is why some run into problems where the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses are concerned. They don't understand anything - that's anything - about Jehovah's arrangement. They find themselves on a level of an unbeliever - not because they can't mature, but because they become bench-warmers, for one reason or other.
    1 Corinthians 3:2, 3
    2 I fed you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet strong enough. In fact, neither are you strong enough now, 3 for you are still fleshly.

    Thanks to the faithful and discrete slave - Governing Body, there is much food at the right time, to help persons to grow to spiritual maturity, in the truth.

    This is where the problem lies. Most people, including some who associate with Jehovah's Witnesses, do not respect God's authority. They think they are so special - think too much of themselves, to humble themselves under Jehovah's arrangements. On one hand, it's sad when persons rebel, but on the other... I am glad.
    I am glad when they are rooted out, and exposed for what they are.

    It reminds me of when Jehovah opened the earth, and swallowed
    Korah, Dathan and Abirum for rebelling against the one Jehovah appointed to instruct the people in his ways. I could imagine how Caleb and Joshua felt when Jehovah removed the rebels - preventing them from entering the promised land. Sad that they acted foolishly, but glad they got what they deserved.

    You see, while God's faithful servants benefit from his channel of spiritual food - Matthew 24:45 - what channel are you feeding from?
    Can you really say you can identify God's channel for distributing spiritual food? He alway had one.

    Sadly, it appears you did not pay attention to it, otherwise you would understand what was said about blood, and - not just fractions, because blood fractions is not a must, and for many Jehovah's Witnesses it is not on their list of alternative medicine.
    So it appears once again you have been misinformed.
    Bloodless medicine is vastly varied.

    I gave you the opportunity to get the facts for yourself. It's entirety up to you.

    Nope. Not me.
    I find this quite silly actually. Why would I want to know what each Jehovah's Witness does?
    Do I worship them? Am I living in a pipe dream, as some people seem to be, thinking that all of Jehovah's Witnesses do what is right, or are genuine, or should be perfect? Mind boggling!
    Look at yourself for example... do you think you are the first and only person raised among Jehovah's Witnesses, to object to, and oppose their teachings? Get a grip - there are thousands like yourself.
    You are just another human, like all of us.
    There are millions of Witnesses who are faithful. Why should I want to know about what the other percent does? This seems like a joke... but one not to laugh at.

    By the way, there was some information given by the faithful and discrete slave - Governing Body, at our last Circuit assembly, pointing out certain cautions to prevent us from talking with apostates, or those who rebel and associate themselves with apostates.
    So, since I recognize the channel Jehovah uses to direct his earthly organization - note, organization - and I respect Jehovah's authority, @RedhorseWoman Sayonara.
     
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  14. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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  15. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    No, bub-- it is YOU who made an Absolute Claim: "Moses wrote parts of the bible, yadda-yadda-yadda"

    So it is YOU who must PROVE such a ludicrous statement, not I.

    WHO TOLD YOU MOSES WROTE THE BIBLE? They were either lying or mistaken.

    NO EVIDENCE IN SUPPORT.
     
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  16. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Claims without evidence.
     
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  17. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Hey, nPeace. hope you are well.
    The Bible says about Korah and his supporters, 'they went alive down into Sheol'!
    We know those going to Sheol, will have a Resurrection! Isn't that something? Outright rebels, and Jehovah will resurrect them. Now that is Our Loving God, Jehovah!

    Take care
     
    #137 Hockeycowboy, Jul 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
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  18. RedhorseWoman

    RedhorseWoman Active Member

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    Ah, yes, I know all about the "principles" that the GB use to dupe JWs into accepting anything they tell the rank and file. You pride yourself on being "spiritually mature" when you can accept and teach as truth something that is absurd and that has absolutely nothing to do with Biblical principles. Any JW who critically looks at the ever-changing "truth" emanating from the Watchtower is consider to be "spiritually weak" or an "independent thinker" (which, as all JWs know, is something to be avoided like the plague) and they are often also considered to be "bad association" and those who speak against the "Slave" and are disobedient to Jehovah.

    It's control nPeace, but you can't see it, and you will, I'm sure vehemently deny it.



    Yes, anyone who actually THINKS about things and doesn't blindly just smile and swallow whatever the GB dishes out (which is only opinions of men) is not "mature in the Truth." Poppycock! Those who are considered to be "spiritually mature" are those who are being led around by a ring in their nose and who get all excited at every instance of "new light" even if that "new light" is a total contradiction to the "truth" they believed a day before.


    How do you explain the "food at the right time" that you received a day, a week, a month before that is now thrown on the trash heap? Was it really "food at the right time" if it is now not enhanced but discarded? Was that now "rotten food" that you must discard "food at the right time" or just men's opinions that the GB has had to change because it was proven to be absolutely false?

    Actually, those who question and even oppose the self-appointed Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses respect God's authority much more so than the JWs who blindly follow men and who meekly accept every human opinion as "truth" and "food from God."

    The problem with this example is that Jehovah did NOT appoint the Watchtower leaders. They appointed themselves.

    Can you honestly say that you benefit from what the JW leaders are doing? They have you out there pushing their literature and contributing your time and resources to benefit themselves. They, with their ever-changing doctrines are most certainly NOT "God's channel."

    Oh, I most certainly DID pay attention and initially, before the GB started nit-picking the doctrine to death, thought that I did understand what was said about blood. I also "understood" what was said about organ transplants being cannibalistic until I found out (after I had become inactive) that that "truth from God" was trashed. How many JWs refused, for instance, a cornea transplant and went blind because of believing the lie that the GB was teaching at the time? How about those who died from kidney failure because they believed?

    And how many JWs believed the clap trap that the GB was promoting about people who accepted a blood transfusion utilizing the donated blood of a criminal who then became criminals themselves because the criminal's personality was transfused into them?

    http://ajwrb.org/watchtower-blood-propaganda

    No, not misinformed. You, however, obviously did not comprehend what I posted, did you? I agreed that bloodless medicine can definitely be the preferred option IF the person is having elective surgery. However, bloodless medicine is NOT an option in traumatic cases where the person is bleeding out. The ONLY viable option is a blood transfusion. JWs, however, prefer to sacrifice themselves and their children to the symbol of life in these cases rather than showing respect for the life they have been given.


    Okay...sorry. Wasn't sure who had demanded that proof and I was too lazy to go back and find out.

    Thankfully, no I know I'm not the only person telling the truth about the "Truth." I'm sure that the WTS hates the idea that there are, by now, probably millions of former JWs out here with a good portion of them being outspoken against this truly dangerous religion.

    Doesn't that give you pause? WHY don't they want you talking with apostates? If we're all such "liars" and "disgruntled former members" what is it about us that they fear so much? Why do they feel compelled to try to control everything you do? Why have they initiated lawsuits against former members to force them to shut down websites exposing the organization? They fear us because they know that their lies will be exposed...one after the other...and many thinking JWs read, research and then leave when THEY discover the truth about the "Truth" that your leaders prefer to keep hidden.
     
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  19. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Something that Christians should consider:

    [​IMG]
     
  20. RedhorseWoman

    RedhorseWoman Active Member

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    Okay...my bad...I did a really quick check but, obviously, it wasn't as thorough as it should have been.

    Here's more, though, for your enjoyment(?)

    http://www.silentlambs.org/murderjwfathers.htm
     
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