Parallel Universes?

[Dream Angel]

I think the Urantia book does.


What do you mean by parallel universes? The idea that every choice we make creates an alternate reality where we chose something different? The idea that there are other universes outside our own? Something else?

The idea that there are other universes outside our own. I have not heard of the other one before...sounds interesting?

 

[Storm]

The idea that there are other universes outside our own.

Well, then, my theology adheres to it, see post 15. I don't have a book, though.

 

[Dream Angel]

Not looked at it that way before but very true.

However there is also the point that humans are only capable of perceiving and interacting with an extremely limited range of the total spectrum present of comic vibrations, and so there is plenty of scope for valid speculation and research about and for parallel universes, other dimensions, etc.



John 14:2 -- In My Father's house are many mansions., perhaps is alluding to other dimensional locations.
Elsewhere we hear Paul talk of an experience of the third Heaven, presumably the third of seven.

The Islamic religion has the concept of seven Heavens.

Also in the Hindu tradition, there are seven Lokas that are also are said to exist according to some hierarchical arrangement.

But surely heavens are different to universes? I dont know though!

BTW - sorry I am replying late to these, I have been rather busy with work! I am currently doing a 60hour week! and my head isnt quite in gear!

 

[Halcyon]

I thought parallel universes were sort of like parallel timelines, so they'd be universes where Abraham Lincoln wasn't assasinated and stuff like that, whereas the multiverse hypothesis was that there are other universes which aren't linked to ours in any way and exist in their own spacetimes bubbles "out there" in hyperspace...

 

[Dream Angel]

I thought parallel universes were sort of like parallel timelines, so they'd be universes where Abraham Lincoln wasn't assasinated and stuff like that, whereas the multiverse hypothesis was that there are other universes which aren't linked to ours in any way and exist in their own spacetimes bubbles "out there" in hyperspace...

Oh yes of course, that makes sense now....I really need to get my head in gear! lol, anyone want to throw a stone at me, give me a reboot! ???

Both scenarios are of interest though!

 

[Surya Deva]

Although I find the notion that multiple universes are existing in different space-time bubbles to be irrational. As all the multiple universes have to be existing within a super space which contains all of them. I believe this is called a superverse.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

But surely heavens are different to universes? I dont know though!

The concept 'parallel universe' is an oxymoron,..the prefix 'uni' means one. ie. the cosmos is one and is all that exists.

Therefore, when such concepts as multiverses and parallel universes are used, it implies that there is more then one creation. This in turn means that these other creations/verses exist separately without an underlying unifying relationship, (otherwise they would be considered mere sub-divisions of the universe).

IMO, no matter what ever mortal mind speculative conceptions of reality are put forth, they will still be a subset of THE REALTY.

 

[Katzpur]

Sorry Katz, I dont know whether it is because I have had a long day and I am tired...but I am not following you? Could you possibly explain please, thanks. I dont know where I heard this, I cant remember, it was ages ago now...I seem to remember being told or reading about something to do with other Gods who look over their own worlds/universes?? - is that different to this multiverse thing? It may have even been in the critic material I was reading, so complete rubbish!

Well, if you're not following me, I may still be misunderstanding the question. In 1 Corinthians 8:5-6, the Apostle Paul is recorded as having said, "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

The LDS view is that there is only one God (with a capital 'G') but that there are beings referred to in the Bible (in the verse I just quoted as well as in several others) as "gods." There are times when these are clearly false gods. At other times, though, it appears from the context in which the word "gods" is used that they are perhaps divine beings of some sort who also look to our "God" as the greatest among them. The Bible doesn't really explain who they are or what their roles are. It just refers to "God" as "God of gods, and Lord of lords, [and] a great God." If we just arbitrarily assume that all of the "gods" mentioned are false gods, what does that make our God -- the God of false gods? Of course not.

Anyway, we don't know anything about these gods, except that they have no power or jurisdiction in our lives. We don't pray to them, because they can't answer our prayers. We don't worship them, because they have done nothing for us, nor do they have the ability to. As far as we're concerned, they simply appear to exist.

So, moving on to the concept of a "multiverse" as opposed to a "universe," here is a story you might find interesting. Think of the main character, Laura, as representing God.

Laura worked in a store of a large supermarket chain, climbing up the ranks from stocker, to cashier, to assistant supervisor, to supervisor, to assistant manager. After being assistant manager for a couple of years, she was transferred to a new store in a small town in a part of the country where this particular supermarket chain had never been before. The store was to open within a month and Laura was to be the new store manager.

Laura managed the store for 25 years and finally retired when the store was closed due to down-sizing. She was well-known and was liked by her workers and customers in the community. She was known by everyone as the store manager since there was only one supermarket in town. At her retirement party, Joey, a life-long friend of hers, spoke about working with Laura when they were both cashiers. People in the community were surprised since they'd always thought of Laura as the store manager and never as a cashier. Those who only knew Laura from the time she was a store manager ridiculed Joey, saying he was wrong since Laura was a store manager and was never a cashier. Joey also talked about Jeff and Peter who were also store managers, who were mutual friends of Laura and Joey. The people of the community were outranged to hear Joey refer to these two other individuals as store managers when they knew the only store manager there had ever been was Laura.

Here we have two seemingly contradictory views of Laura and her position. The community only understood Laura's relationship with their community, but Joey saw Laura's relationship from a different, and more expansive, point of view. The community only knew that Laura was always the store manager. There weren't any store managers before her and there would be none after her. Furthermore, she was there before the store opened and would continue to be a part of their community after it closed.

What was Laura doing before she became the store manager? No one in the community had ever even thought about this. They knew Laura from a perspective that did not allow for her existence outside of her position as the once-and-forever store manager.

Most of the Abrahamic religions (I don't know about the others) think of our universe as being the only universe that has ever existed or ever will exist. The Latter-day Saint view is not so restrictive. Now, don't take this to mean that this is official Church doctrine, because it isn't. I have never heard the word "multiverse" spoken by anyone in an LDS leadership position. I simply read about it (including the story about Laura that I related) in a book I have that was written by a Latter-day Saint. The concept does explain, though, how we can say that we believe what the Bible says about God (that He is the only God who has ever existed or will exist) and at the same time, believe what Joseph Smith said (that God "who sits enthroned in yonder heaven, is a man like one of you.") The first statement explains God's existence from the perspective of a universe (one creation), while the second statement explains God's existence from the perspective of a multiverse (multiple creations).

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Most of the Abrahamic religions (I don't know about the others) think of our universe as being the only universe that has ever existed or ever will exist. The Latter-day Saint view is not so restrictive.

According to my understanding, the anthropocentric concept of 'our' universe and the postulation of other universes not ours, is inherent in the dualistic mindset of the mortal mind.

The universe is the one emanation of the God absolute, oneness. All that exists exists in this One and nothing exists outside this one. Nothing can be added to to make it greater and nothing can be subtracted from it to make it lessor.

There really is no need to postulate another universe, it is just a matter of conceiving of the UNIVERSE as containing everything that can ever be conceived of by mortal man whether it be real or imagined. If a anthropocentrically minded mortal wants to postulate the existence of a replicate universe of 'our' perceived universe' as is theoretically conceived by some contemporary mortals, fine, but the term 'uni'verse is no longer appropriate for these sub-divisions of THE UNIVERSE.

Perhaps one could coin a new term,...parallel subverses.

In this respect perhaps multiverses is acceptable so long as these are understood to be secondary emanations of the Universe.

Trying to retain some logic here.

 

[zenzero]

Friends,
Personal understanding of the subject is that the total energy in this universe is constant.
From that point no energy is created or destroyed. It only changes form.
If sun is losing energy somewhere it is again getting accumulated.
Today the human population has increased; this increase is due to the energy changing forms through evolution. We find the population of plants and animals on earth decreasing and also through evolution those have evolved to humans, now.
This is without begining or end and in between we just happen!
Love & rgds

 

[Dream Angel]

Well, if you're not following me, I may still be misunderstanding the question. In 1 Corinthians 8:5-6, the Apostle Paul is recorded as having said, "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

The LDS view is that there is only one God (with a capital 'G') but that there are beings referred to in the Bible (in the verse I just quoted as well as in several others) as "gods." There are times when these are clearly false gods. At other times, though, it appears from the context in which the word "gods" is used that they are perhaps divine beings of some sort who also look to our "God" as the greatest among them. The Bible doesn't really explain who they are or what their roles are. It just refers to "God" as "God of gods, and Lord of lords, [and] a great God." If we just arbitrarily assume that all of the "gods" mentioned are false gods, what does that make our God -- the God of false gods? Of course not.

Anyway, we don't know anything about these gods, except that they have no power or jurisdiction in our lives. We don't pray to them, because they can't answer our prayers. We don't worship them, because they have done nothing for us, nor do they have the ability to. As far as we're concerned, they simply appear to exist.

So, moving on to the concept of a "multiverse" as opposed to a "universe," here is a story you might find interesting. Think of the main character, Laura, as representing God.

Laura worked in a store of a large supermarket chain, climbing up the ranks from stocker, to cashier, to assistant supervisor, to supervisor, to assistant manager. After being assistant manager for a couple of years, she was transferred to a new store in a small town in a part of the country where this particular supermarket chain had never been before. The store was to open within a month and Laura was to be the new store manager.

Laura managed the store for 25 years and finally retired when the store was closed due to down-sizing. She was well-known and was liked by her workers and customers in the community. She was known by everyone as the store manager since there was only one supermarket in town. At her retirement party, Joey, a life-long friend of hers, spoke about working with Laura when they were both cashiers. People in the community were surprised since they'd always thought of Laura as the store manager and never as a cashier. Those who only knew Laura from the time she was a store manager ridiculed Joey, saying he was wrong since Laura was a store manager and was never a cashier. Joey also talked about Jeff and Peter who were also store managers, who were mutual friends of Laura and Joey. The people of the community were outranged to hear Joey refer to these two other individuals as store managers when they knew the only store manager there had ever been was Laura.

Here we have two seemingly contradictory views of Laura and her position. The community only understood Laura's relationship with their community, but Joey saw Laura's relationship from a different, and more expansive, point of view. The community only knew that Laura was always the store manager. There weren't any store managers before her and there would be none after her. Furthermore, she was there before the store opened and would continue to be a part of their community after it closed.

What was Laura doing before she became the store manager? No one in the community had ever even thought about this. They knew Laura from a perspective that did not allow for her existence outside of her position as the once-and-forever store manager.

Most of the Abrahamic religions (I don't know about the others) think of our universe as being the only universe that has ever existed or ever will exist. The Latter-day Saint view is not so restrictive. Now, don't take this to mean that this is official Church doctrine, because it isn't. I have never heard the word "multiverse" spoken by anyone in an LDS leadership position. I simply read about it (including the story about Laura that I related) in a book I have that was written by a Latter-day Saint. The concept does explain, though, how we can say that we believe what the Bible says about God (that He is the only God who has ever existed or will exist) and at the same time, believe what Joseph Smith said (that God "who sits enthroned in yonder heaven, is a man like one of you.") The first statement explains God's existence from the perspective of a universe (one creation), while the second statement explains God's existence from the perspective of a multiverse (multiple creations).

Thanks for the story Katz, that really explains the "multiverse" well!

So basically, what you are saying is that if there is other universes aside from our own. Then God made them as he made ours? Whats confusing me is I am sure last time I heard this, it was said that the other gods look over their own creations?? i wish I could remember where I heard it from..I am sure it was here somewhere? so is that wrong?

 

[Katzpur]

So basically, what you are saying is that if there is other universes aside from our own. Then God made them as he made ours? Whats confusing me is I am sure last time I heard this, it was said that the other gods look over their own creations?? i wish I could remember where I heard it from..I am sure it was here somewhere? so is that wrong?

It's hard to say. Considering these two facts about LDS doctrine: (1) We believe in "Eternal Progression" and that we can, by God's grace, become like Him someday, (2) We believe that God has created worlds without number. If both of these statements are true, then it is possible that some of His children in worlds other than ours have, by the doctrine of Eternal Progression, attained that which is still, to us, just a distant goal -- becoming like God. If God has created worlds without end, and if some of His children have become like Him (i.e. gods, with a lower-case 'g' -- since to them, God still reigns supreme), they too may have created worlds. It's really all just speculation, and I really don't even think much about these possibilities. I just threw it out as a possible explanation which, while not itself doctrinal, makes sense to me in light of what actually is doctrinal.

 

[x.anti-everything.x]

maybe look into norse mythology as well. they mention something about multiple realms/lands (fire, ice, dwarven, elven) maybe theres a clue there for insight to multiple universes?