Palestianian atheist arrested

[Penumbra]

However, obscenity towards the sacred figures in Islam might constitute a problem.

Why is that?

 

[Sahar]

Why is that?

A question that I am not even able to answer because I believe the reason is obvious enough!!

 

[Penumbra]

A question that I am not even able to answer because I believe the reason is obvious enough!!

I don't see how it's obvious.

You can insult me all you want. You can burn my flags, make fun of my ideas, mock my leaders, and burn books that I hold dear.

And guess what? I'm not going to hurt you.

 

[Midnight Pete]

I don't see how it's obvious.

It seems like your empathy is very poor, but actually you're just playing a little game with us.

 

[Penumbra]

It seems like your empathy is very poor, but actually you're just playing a little game with us.

In what way?

 

[Midnight Pete]

In what way?

Right there, what you did just now! Passive-aggressively playing dumb.

 

[Penumbra]

Right there, what you did just now! Passive-aggressively playing dumb.

Sahar said that obscenity towards sacred figures in Islam might constitute a problem. To me, that seems as though she supports what occurred in the article to an extent.

But the statement is vague. She did not specifically condone prison or violence, although I got that implication. So I attempted to have her elaborate, which she did not and instead said it's obvious.

Don't you think the notion that people who insult what you hold dear should be restrained or killed is worthy of further analysis?

 

[Meow Mix]

Well, it depends on the content. Being atheist, calling for atheism or arguing against Islam shouldn't be a problem, I believe. However, obscenity towards the sacred figures in Islam might constitute a problem.

What counts as "obscenity?"

My Christian parents would laugh at obscene jokes about Jesus all the time -- they figured that if the guy existed he'd probably at least have a sense of humor.

I think it would be a shame if you could jail or use the force of law against someone who -- say -- drew a cartoon about Mohammed or cracked a joke.

I don't think anyone has the right to "not be offended."

 

[.lava]

Well, it depends on the content. Being atheist, calling for atheism or arguing against Islam shouldn't be a problem, I believe. However, obscenity towards the sacred figures in Islam might constitute a problem.

i think the same. i don't think it earns death penalthy but it is not their right to poison media which even children could reach out and read their hatred. thanks to God we don't make jokes about or insult what we hold as divine and certainly it is not at all becoming better people if we did. for that matter Western has nothing to teach us. IMO they've lost respect for divine because of this lie of 'freedom'. they don't like Muslims want to protect divine, so be it. i could not care less. it is all fine; to believe what you feel like to believe, share my food, be my friend...etc but you can't slander my Prophet and insult my path and culture in my home

.

 

[Meow Mix]

i think the same. i don't think it earns death penalthy but it is not their right to poison media which even children could reach out and read their hatred. thanks to God we don't make jokes about or insult what we hold as divine and certainly it is not at all becoming better people if we did. for that matter Western has nothing to teach us. IMO they've lost respect for divine because of this lie of 'freedom'. they don't like Muslims want to protect divine, so be it. i could not care less. it is all fine; to believe what you feel like to believe, share my food, be my friend...etc but you can't slander my Prophet and insult my path and culture in my home

.

You have a right to kick someone out of your house if they crack a joke but no one should have the right to jail, hurt or kill them over it.

It's barbaric to say that anyone merely expressing an opinion should have legal repurcussions over it in my opinion.

 

[Penumbra]

i think the same. i don't think it earns death penalthy but it is not their right to poison media which even children could reach out and read their hatred. thanks to God we don't make jokes about or insult what we hold as divine and certainly it is not at all becoming better people if we did. for that matter Western has nothing to teach us. IMO they've lost respect for divine because of this lie of 'freedom'. they don't like Muslims want to protect divine, so be it. i could not care less. it is all fine; to believe what you feel like to believe, share my food, be my friend...etc but you can't slander my Prophet and insult my path and culture in my home

.

I feel that freedom of speech is important to have a healthy society.

If you can't criticize things, progress can be stunted. And besides, it's not like these places are balanced in any way. If this guy was mocking Hinduism or something, these people wouldn't erupt with desires to imprison or burn him.

Barring free speech on something like a religion, or politics, or leaders ends up with a very slippery position.

 

[croak]

I don't know why Muslims insist on killing off, covering over, or excommunicating their intellectuals.

Are you saying that this individual is an intellectual? Just curious.

 

[.lava]

I feel that freedom of speech is important to have a healthy society.

a healthy society relies on love and respect. what matters is intention of people. there are some people i know and visit sometimes. some of them are gay people, some has nothing to with Islam and they oppose religion. they know what path i follow and i know what path they follow. i show them respect and they show me respect. if this version of freedom of speech was applied to our relationship, we could not love each other. and in case a friend of mine insulted what i hold as divide, well, basically he could not do it dozens of times because i'd stop seeing him and i would not let that happen. even though i find it hard to believe what media say about Muslims, let's assume an atheist insulted Prophets, Allah, Islam..etc. that only proves he has no respect or love for anyone around him. i would not insult what someone care for, not because i care for the same but i care for the individual.

If you can't criticize things, progress can be stunted. And besides, it's not like these places are balanced in any way. If this guy was mocking Hinduism or something, these people wouldn't erupt with desires to imprison or burn him.

criticize what exactly? insulting a Prophet is a critic?
yes, you might be right about it. but that's not really welcomed in Islam to mock for whatever reason. because mockery is 'shadow' of arrogance.

Barring free speech on something like a religion, or politics, or leaders ends up with a very slippery position.

if you don't see any difference between saying that you don't accept Islam and insulting what Islam is or contains & practices then i don't know how to make you see. IMO it is very clear

.

 

[Penumbra]

a healthy society relies on love and respect. what matters is intention of people. there are some people i know and visit sometimes. some of them are gay people, some has nothing to with Islam and they oppose religion. they know what path i follow and i know what path they follow. i show them respect and they show me respect. if this version of freedom of speech was applied to our relationship, we could not love each other. and in case a friend of mine insulted what i hold as divide, well, basically he could not do it dozens of times because i'd stop seeing him and i would not let that happen. even though i find it hard to believe what media say about Muslims, let's assume an atheist insulted Prophets, Allah, Islam..etc. that only proves he has no respect or love for anyone around him. i would not insult what someone care for, not because i care for the same but i care for the individual.

Someone that's mean to me and mocks me is not going to be my friend. But I'm not going to try to get them imprisoned either. They can insult any of my positions that they want to, because truth does not flee from scrutiny. Error does.

I think pointing out the fundamental problems with something, such as Islam, is important. If Muslims don't believe there are problems, then they should be able to defend against such views without hostility. Criticizing the status quo, even harshly, is often necessary for change and improvement.

criticize what exactly? insulting a Prophet is a critic?
yes, you might be right about it. but that's not really welcomed in Islam to mock for whatever reason. because mockery is 'shadow' of arrogance.

I'd suggest that being attached enough to something to want to imprison whoever insults it has the problem with arrogance.

Either that, or insecurity. Happy, content, and humble people don't seek vengeance over words.

if you don't see any difference between saying that you don't accept Islam and insulting what Islam is or contains & practices then i don't know how to make you see. IMO it is very clear

.

Oh, I see a difference. But neither should be criminally punishable.

 

[.lava]

Someone that's mean to me and mocks me is not going to be my friend. But I'm not going to try to get them imprisoned either. They can insult any of my positions that they want to, because truth does not flee from scrutiny. Error does.

so what happens on a greater scale? what if someone was mean to entire society? sometimes people insult me and i don't care. because it is personal, not cultural and it does not disturb millions. just me so i let go.

I think pointing out the fundamental problems with something, such as Islam, is important. If Muslims don't believe there are problems, then they should be able to defend against such views without hostility. Criticizing the status quo, even harshly, is often necessary for change and improvement.

there is nothing wrong with Islam. there are wrongs in applications. hostility? what do you know about this news? what critic are you referring to exactly? what did this guy say about Islam?

I'd suggest that being attached enough to something to want to imprison whoever insults it has the problem with arrogance.

Either that, or insecurity. Happy, content, and humble people don't seek vengeance over words.

Oh, I see a difference. But neither should be criminally punishable.

generally speaking, they might be trying to protect society from slanderer that could cause worse situations. you might see it as arrogance, insecurity..etc. well shortly you can believe anything you want. in a society people have rights to teach their kids to show respect. noone has right to ruin it by setting an example of hatred. you disagree, fine

.

 

[Penumbra]

so what happens on a greater scale? what if someone was mean to entire society? sometimes people insult me and i don't care. because it is personal, not cultural and it does not disturb millions. just me so i let go.

People are mean to entire societies all the time. You can say anything you want about my country (and lots of people do! It's all the rage these days...). And a lot of what they say has truth in it. Constantly highlighting things that are not good, whether it's through calm observation, humor, or fiery rhetoric is what promotes change and digs up problems.

there is nothing wrong with Islam.

I beg to differ. But even if that's the case, then Islam shouldn't have anything to fear from criticism, should it?

People that assert that there is nothing wrong with their religion or culture and then killing or imprisoning people that say otherwise are just reinforcing the criticisms against themselves.

there are wrongs in applications. hostility? what do you know about this news? what critic are you referring to exactly? what did this guy say about Islam?

From the article, the guy said the god of Islam has primitive attributes, insulted Mohammad, and called Islam a "blind faith that grows and takes over people's minds where there is irrationality and ignorance." He also apparently claimed he was god and promoted the usage of cannabis.

So they responded by showing their blindness and barbarism by imprisoning him (potentially for life), and some calling for him to be burned publicly.

The accuracy of the article is less interesting to me than the responses of Muslims here about it.

generally speaking, they might be trying to protect society from slanderer that could cause worse situations. you might see it as arrogance, insecurity..etc. well shortly you can believe anything you want. in a society people have rights to teach their kids to show respect. noone has right to ruin it by setting an example of hatred. you disagree, fine

.

I agree that you don't show hatred. That's why you don't imprison people for free speech.

 

[Midnight Pete]

What counts as "obscenity?"

My Christian parents would laugh at obscene jokes about Jesus all the time -- they figured that if the guy existed he'd probably at least have a sense of humor.

I think it would be a shame if you could jail or use the force of law against someone who -- say -- drew a cartoon about Mohammed or cracked a joke.

I don't think anyone has the right to "not be offended."

What is Iluvatarism? I'd really like to know.

 

[Midnight Pete]

I agree that you don't show hatred. That's why you don't imprison people for free speech.

The Palestinian atheist was pretty stupid to do what he did. I don't care if what he said was right or wrong. He just should have known better.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

I wonder how far this bus would get in Palestine?


I wonder who would be game to get on it there?


Thank XXX we have such freedom of speech here in Australian

 

[Penumbra]

The Palestinian atheist was pretty stupid to do what he did. I don't care if what he said was right or wrong. He just should have known better.

Regardless, that still doesn't address the moral issue of the topic.

Besides, assuming this is a legitimate story rather than a satire or something, it seems they went out of their way to get him. It's not like he went out into the streets and hurled insults at Islam. Instead, he did it on an apparently anonymous blog in an internet cafe.