Overcoming Death

[Aupmanyav]

Dream on... What prophecies do you think he fulfilled? List them.

Why would I care to list them? Some 20 million Ahmadiyyas who believe in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as the Mahdi will have the list. For me, what is the worth of such listing? I reject all prophets as false since they provide no evidence of what they say (You may accept them, but my bar is higher. I am an atheist. I do not believe that anyone can tell the future. As for guesses, mine are as good as anyone else's).

 

[Trailblazer]

Why would I care to list them?

Why? Because you made the claim:
Aupmanyav said: Yeah, the return of Jesus prophecy was fulfilled by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in 1888.

Some 20 million Ahmadiyyas who believe in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as the Mahdi will have the list.

No, they won't have any list since there is no list since he fulfilled no prophecies for the return of Christ.
Baha'u'llah fulfilled them so that means that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad did not.

The list of prophecies and how they were fulfilled by Baha'u'llah is explained in the book Thief in the Night by William Sears.

Some of those prophecies and how they were fulfilled by Baha'u'llah are depicted in the following 10 minute video.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Baha'u'llah fulfilled them so that means that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad did not.
The list of prophecies and how they were fulfilled by Baha'u'llah is explained in the book Thief in the Night by William Sears.

Check with the 20 million Ahmadiyyas (thrice the number of Bahais), who believe that. ..
I believe dead persons do not return. In what way you say that Bahaollah is the returning Jesus? Why do you think I will believe in Bahai books if they have not give sufficient proof? Quotes and prophecies from even more ancient books are no proofs for me.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yeah, we worship idols. Don't you have images or statues of Jesus on cross in your home? Don't you wear crosses around your neck? Or a Bible to which you bow? That too is idol worship.
And you are right. We would kill our enemies. No compunction about that.

You say you worship idols? You have statues or images even of Jesus on the cross in your home? I do not. I do not kiss or bow down (or so-called venerate) images of any sort. No, I don't wear a cross or any religious image around my neck.
And you would kill your enemies even if someone else told you to and you don't know them?
Thanks for explaining.

 

[Aupmanyav]

You say you worship idols? You have statues or images even of Jesus on the cross in your home? I do not. I do not kiss or bow down (or so-called venerate) images of any sort. No, I don't wear a cross or any religious image around my neck.
And you would kill your enemies even if someone else told you to and you don't know them?

Well, I am an atheist Hindu . But most are not that, my family for example. They worship idols.
Why would we have idols of Jesus and cross. We have our own Gods/ Goddesses and signs - Om, Swastika, Star of David for Mother Goddess.
As to why we worship idols, there is a whole philosophy behind that.
I will know the enemies who may endanger my society or my country. Whom will I kill (although I am a bit old that kind of business) if I do not know the enemy?

 

[YoursTrue]

Well, I am an atheist Hindu . But most are not that, my family for example. They worship idols.
Why would we have idols of Jesus and cross. We have our own Gods/ Goddesses and signs - Om, Swastika, Star of David for Mother Goddess.
As to why we worship idols, there is a whole philosophy behind that.
I will know the enemies who may endanger my society or my country. Whom will I kill (although I am a bit old that kind of business) if I do not know the enemy?

I'm just going by your probably sarcastic statement. So you, as an atheistic Hindu (whatever that means) do not give offerings, let's say, to gods or goddesses, or depictions of them, right?
As far as "decision-making," you will kill someone if someone in authority tells you to? And you say it's not based on faith. You may not see those considered your enemy personally, but you're worried your family might be hurt. In many cases, there is sometimes no choice for soldiers, they are commanded by the government to fight the considered national enemy, even pregnant women and children by bomb, chemical warfare, etc. Right?

 

[Trailblazer]

Check with the 20 million Ahmadiyyas (thrice the number of Bahais), who believe that. ..

Why would it matter how many people believe that Ahmad was the return of Christ? What people believe has no bearing on what is actually true.

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so." Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia

The converse of this is that if many or most people do not believe it, it cannot be so, and that is fallacious.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

There are reasons why few people find it. Few people find the narrow gate and even fewer people enter through it because it is narrow, so it is difficult to get through...

It is difficult to get through because one has to be willing to give up all their preconceived ideas, have an open mind, and think for themselves. Most people do not embark upon such a journey. They go through the wide gate, the easy one to get through – their own religious tradition or their own preconceived ideas about God or no god. They follow that broad road that is easiest for them to travel.... and that is why the NEW religion is always rejected by most people for a very long time after it has been revealed.

The Truth is never obvious to everyone. In fact, few people find it.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I'm just going by your probably sarcastic statement. So you, as an atheistic Hindu (whatever that means) do not give offerings, let's say, to gods or goddesses, or depictions of them, right?
As far as "decision-making," you will kill someone if someone in authority tells you to? And you say it's not based on faith. You may not see those considered your enemy personally, but you're worried your family might be hurt. In many cases, there is sometimes no choice for soldiers, they are commanded by the government to fight the considered national enemy, even pregnant women and children by bomb, chemical warfare, etc. Right?

That is right.
If I am a soldier and my officer asks me to fight the enemy, sure, I would not hesitate.
Indian army will never try to harm civilians, that is not in our culture. If they do, they are punished.
But yes, in a war, collateral damage is always there.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Why would it matter how many people believe that Ahmad was the return of Christ? What people believe has no bearing on what is actually true.
Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
It is difficult to get through because one has to be willing to give up all their preconceived ideas, have an open mind, and think for themselves.
The Truth is never obvious to everyone. In fact, few people find it.

Unfortunately, people want others to believe without giving any evidence for what they are saying. Small gate or big gate, I cannot believe in what Mathew says because there is no corresponding evidence.
I have only one idea, believe if evidence is available, and I am not gonna give it up.
If only few people see the truth then it is their truth, it won't be my truth..

 

[Trailblazer]

Unfortunately, people want others to believe without giving any evidence for what they are saying. Small gate or big gate, I cannot believe in what Mathew says because there is no corresponding evidence.
I have only one idea, believe if evidence is available, and I am not gonna give it up.
If only few people see the truth then it is their truth, it won't be my truth..

But what is evidence? What is evidence to one person is not evidence to another person.
And that's the problem.

I present evidence and the atheists say "That's not evidence." They say that because what I present is not evidence to them, but it is evidence to me.

I don't want anyone to believe what I believe, belief should be a choice people make according to what people discover for themselves.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I will never take away the 'crutch' from someone who needs it. It is just that I do not need an imaginary God. How I react to other people depends on what they do.
False or true depends on what evidence can you present for that. I do not think you have any for the return of Jesus and his 1,000 year reign on earth. It is just empty talk.
BTW, what happens after these 1,000 years? The world returns to a Godless world? I have asked this question but did not get a reply.

Answer: PARADISE, a beautiful paradisical Earth as Eden originally was.
From paradise (Eden) lost to paradise regained as we can read in the 35th chapter of Isaiah.
After the thousand years mankind will No longer need to have Jesus as a go between to God for us..
Just as Adam had a one-on-one relationship with his God, his Father (Life Giver) so will mankind.
Notice what Jesus hands over to his God after the thousand years at 1 Corinthians 15:24-26.

Evidence today is the world scene. I like what Prince Charles had to say about our world in crisis:
A desperate need to:
RE-imagine
RE-think
RE-invent
RE-design
RE-vive
RE-form
RE-present
RE-balance
RE-create
RE-invest
RE-start -> the whole planet

Today's super-human problems are like knocking down a spider web.
The web always comes back because Satan is the Spider.
So, only a super-human hero can take care of today's super-human problems.
In Scripture we find that Jesus has both the ability to RE-set and RE-new all the above mentioned needs.

When the powers in charge are saying " Peace and Security...." Yes, that will be empty talk leading people down that primrose path, but what a shock it will be when the powers surprisingly turn on the religious world.
Jesus has that 'new broom' so to speak, and will start 'house cleaning' against Christendom (so-called Christians)

 

[YoursTrue]

That is right.
If I am a soldier and my officer asks me to fight the enemy, sure, I would not hesitate.
Indian army will never try to harm civilians, that is not in our culture. If they do, they are punished.
But yes, in a war, collateral damage is always there.

So then you have faith perhaps (?) that you're doing the right thing to possibly kill an unarmed civilian in the line of duty, and by that I mean a woman who could be pregnant? Maybe you don't call it decision by faith if you are ordered to kill or be killed. I know of soldiers coming back from war who were ordered to kill children. They never got over it. But evidently you will listen to a leader. OK. Right now I really have no more questions about that since you say it's not faith I guess but a decision to protect civilians, I guess even if 'your' side doesn't win the war...(oh well.)

 

[YoursTrue]

Well, I am an atheist Hindu . But most are not that, my family for example. They worship idols.
Why would we have idols of Jesus and cross. We have our own Gods/ Goddesses and signs - Om, Swastika, Star of David for Mother Goddess.
As to why we worship idols, there is a whole philosophy behind that.
I will know the enemies who may endanger my society or my country. Whom will I kill (although I am a bit old that kind of business) if I do not know the enemy?

Re-reading your post, Aupmanyav, you say your family worships idols. May I ask how they do that, since those of the Catholic faith insist they don't worship idols. Only I guess bow down to statues or kiss their hand, etc. things like that. So you say your family worships idols. How so? I have a few friends who were Hindu and who studied the Bible with us and who are no longer Hindu, but that's another story.

 

[YoursTrue]

That is right.
If I am a soldier and my officer asks me to fight the enemy, sure, I would not hesitate.
Indian army will never try to harm civilians, that is not in our culture. If they do, they are punished.
But yes, in a war, collateral damage is always there.

Just happen to watch a documentary about of all things now, the Himalayan mountains -- fascinating. Yes, one day I hope to see them, despite the fact that I'm in my older years. Looking forward. Now they're talking about the Himalayan marmots. (Wow is all I can say now.) How wonderful the earth is!

 

[YoursTrue]

To @Aupmanyav now seeing the yaks. Wow again. Marmots hibernate. Now showing school in the highest hill of the Himalayas. The students have to get to school. wow again. I'm sure you're familiar with this.

 

[rational experiences]

Human men. Direct liars.

Take earths substances. Convert them by human choice. Physical manipulation. In small ways.

Build machines by having thought upon design by living and not first living as a machine. No machine anywhere first just humans living.

Living as just a human.

History human says everywhere you look there is that liar brother trying to convince you that you're just a machine.

As anything he invented already involved human families slavery for his purposes only. All gains for himself as the outcome.

Always just about his greed and brothers who all agree with those human only behaviours.

So today humans controlling machines preach a human must be part machine. As I say so. Thinking about a machine as his weapon of power he wields beyond bio self as a human God.

No human even owns any status about his machine. From ground melt.

You let them preach it however.

You don't argue.

Your history family says we know who we are. We know what illegal acts those brothers did against us. And life's natural survival on earth.

We know he always destroys everything he theories upon claiming it's his machine related. When it isn't.

He Knows... He lies knowing he is.

Yet none of you are doing anything about it.

Instead you book read. Claim yes natural as the God terms first destroy us all. What God is to a human all pre existing natural substances.

As God he says is one term itself was formed naturally itself all pre existences not human just cosmic....and humans keep changing it.

So natural what we belong with ends our life. Destroys life gods terms does.

No use asking why God all substances supporting his life first to claim God doesn't as God help victims. Answer... as God didn't ask any human to change its natural bodies.

Asking everyone a question.....do you hence think your brother and his past present history is worthy of your unnatural death?

To overcome unnatural death early age life sacrifice was a humans owned teaching only. Was to stop his evil nuclear science practiced of burning and melt. What God as greatest cooled cold owned.

Ask is a scientist just a human first intelligent. He already owns historic answers....no he isn't.

 

[rational experiences]

Past circumstance.

The day the sky went dark human science pyramid temple technology was stopped.

God the terms stopped science.

In humans natural life a question.....why did dinosaurs die early sacrificed life on earth?

Sky went dark. Water snap froze.

We live in light conditions only.

Ask a human why did the coldest gases be clear and own no light?

Because of space law.

Do you scientist own that state?

No he doesn't.

He alights burns earths mass body to get his gases.

Coldest ends right when he gains a gas.

No light. No technology either your answer.

 

[YoursTrue]

That is right.
If I am a soldier and my officer asks me to fight the enemy, sure, I would not hesitate.
Indian army will never try to harm civilians, that is not in our culture. If they do, they are punished.
But yes, in a war, collateral damage is always there.

I guess you just have to figure which side of the fence you're on? Assuming many of those fighting are religious, not sure.
Indian Army - Wikipedia

 

[rational experiences]

Religious science.
Science.

Storytellers and human theists.

Then there is natural psychic spiritual aware human. Born a baby human. Never ever the first two human parents.

Our exact wisdom.

Are you born immaculately?

Yes.

By what human only scientific terms?

Just theisms. Not facts or data.

Terms referenced. God by law in nature is the greatest coldest concept of biologies life support. Immaculate. Condition our equal mutual heavens term.

Who taught theoried science? Human men only had. Thinking self special.

So you live due to gods terms only as said by a human as a Theist? No.

All natural life including nature and animals live by the same conditions. You dont claim them special do you?

No.

Didn't you preach stable atmosphere baby healthy natural spiritual true human purpose with animals living present gets born too! Yes. A teaching themed only.

If we spoke together talked about man baby woman baby then maybe a man wouldn't think just his baby self special!

As the first theist human storyteller.

Yes. Wrong you just live by survival equal only. Balances are caused.

I dont use theisms. As a medical healer psychic study I said natural light supports a conscious healthy need to be healed life.

Coldest gases immaculate supports the natural light. It's Just a story. Natural light healthy baby.

All babies are born by human sex. Owning no human argument whatsoever.

If you infer science terms then you are as a human theist only. Human mutual equal first. Is not your thesis.

Which most religious idealists ignore.

Instead you think yourself especial as so did the first brothers as God's scientific theists.

Which you ignore as human only advice. Behaviour. Don't self idolate. As a loving spiritual psychic human was innate natural first. Mutual and equal.

No special babies was the teaching.

Reasoned as human babies images appeared in heavens cloud images the same as adult man life bio sacrificed.

You think self special just because you healed back into a more natural living humans origin position personally. Spiritual loving very aware.

Ignored direct human advice written exact....don't false preach...theisms.

Don't self idolate....yet you do. By organisation of it.

So if I said no man human baby was ever special why would you argue?

Question.... by organisation do you claim now you're also special?

Wasnt it the baby human man adult not first natural human father who theories for science then technology?

Yes.

In that rich man's organisation werent you a lord in society by trade. A rich human king. Thinking youre special already? Yes.

Then technology caused all humans the brain changed life biology? Same as first man theist Inherited the behaviours and warned.

Yes.

All advices why pre lived humans ego expressed first about being special human babies....pre expressed and human advised? Before technology changed everyone's brain again.

Yes.

But you all chose to ignore your own human advice?

Yes.

Society proof is men mistreated women unequally by many male teachings. Just humans. Themed why they should cause it just as human men.

Is reality today.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I present evidence and the atheists say "That's not evidence." They say that because what I present is not evidence to them, but it is evidence to me.
I don't want anyone to believe what I believe, belief should be a choice people make according to what people discover for themselves.

Yeah, that is your evidence, you believe that. That is no problem. In the same way allow other people the freedom of believing or not believing what you see as evidence. I have discovered what I wanted to discover.
Why these repeated topics and long posts with quotes from Bahais? This is proselytization. Atheists will continue to shred them.

So you say your family worships idols. How so?

Read it here, no kissing involved: Puja (Hinduism) - Wikipedia. There are Christians who are happy being Hindus now. Nothing new. It is a free world.

I'm sure you're familiar with this.

Yeah, some what. I have trekked solo in Himalayas a few times.