Overcoming Death

[Mark Charles Compton]

Just in reiteration though, in order to be happy we have to know we're happy. That means we are alive. The dead, the Bible says, regardless of any metaphors or pointing in illustration to someone suffering after death, know nothing. Because -- one reason is they are d-e-a-d. And death, regardless of how anyone thinks about it, is the opposite of life. Not only am I convinced this is true, but even before I studied those verses in the Bible relating to the subject, I innately knew this is true. No one had to convince me there was no 'suffering' or eternal torment, torture in a place many religionists would call hell. I knew God would never ever do something like that, even though I was not knowing Him or relating to Him at that time in my life. The prospect or subject of fiery hell torturing anyone was and is beyond my ken.
I knew and still know there is life. And there is death. Death is not life. Just like when an animal dies, if that animal has given birth, she isn't looking at her young ones or 'relatives' from heaven. Not even animal heaven. just a little joke there although some really do believe and/or have church services that their pets are alive somewhere after death. To sum up, death is not life.

Agreed that when one dies there is no 'after party', however if you allow me I would argue in semantics that dying is life/living. All things alive at any given moment are all experiencing the process of dying, some may choose to call this 'living'. Death is the culmination of a thing coming to its finale, no longer living and no longer dying, simply dead.

I for one am unconvinced we have a sufficient definition let alone understanding of the completeness of such a grand concept as 'life and death', but it's fun to philosophize and hypothesize.

 

[YoursTrue]

Agreed that when one dies there is no 'after party', however if you allow me I would argue in semantics that dying is life/living. All things alive at any given moment are all experiencing the process of dying, some may choose to call this 'living'. Death is the culmination of a thing coming to its finale, no longer living and no longer dying, simply dead.

I for one am unconvinced we have a sufficient definition let alone understanding of the completeness of such a grand concept as 'life and death', but it's fun to philosophize and hypothesize.

The only thing I can agree on now using semantics and maybe not so is when Jesus spoke of those who were dead but still alive. And I understand that, having once been without the understanding of Jesus and God. Technically dead but not alive as I am now.
So looking at a scripture, here is what Jesus said, referring to dead but alive persons: (Luke 9:60)
"But he said to him: “Let the dead bury their dead, but you go and declare abroad the Kingdom of God."
So we know that dead people really can't move so as to bury their dead.
OK, have a good one, keep praying if you do and ask God for insight.

 

[Trailblazer]

Just in reiteration though, in order to be happy we have to know we're happy. That means we are alive. The dead, the Bible says, regardless of any metaphors or pointing in illustration to someone suffering after death, know nothing. Because -- one reason is they are d-e-a-d. And death, regardless of how anyone thinks about it, is the opposite of life.

To sum up, death is not life.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
King James Version

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

I believe this verse is referring to the bodies of the dead. Of course the physical body, once dead and buried, is no longer conscious, so it knows nothing.

This verse is only half true. "neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." It is true that the physical body of the dead will not have a reward, because once dead and buried, the physical body is dead and gone. However, I do not believe that the physical body is who we are, it is only a vehicle that houses the soul while we are living in the physical body. After we die and ascend to the spiritual world (heaven) the soul takes on a new form, a spiritual body. This is explained in 1 Corinthians 15:40-54.

It is absolutely false that the memory of the dead are forgotten! We all know that the memory of our loved ones is not forgotten as it lives on in our mind.

Unless the New Testament is false, it is not true that there will be no reward.

The Old Testament was written before the New Testament, so there have been updates.

Jesus came into the world and now it is a whole new ball game. Jesus told us we will have eternal life if we believe in Him, and that means we can never really die. The soul is immortal so it can never die. Only the body dies since it is mortal, and no physical body ever comes back to life once it has died.

John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 4:13-14 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

 

[YoursTrue]

Ecclesiastes 9:5
King James Version

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

I believe this verse is referring to the bodies of the dead. Of course the physical body, once dead and buried, is no longer conscious, so it knows nothing.

This verse is only half true. "neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." It is true that the physical body of the dead will not have a reward, because once dead and buried, the physical body is dead and gone. However, I do not believe that the physical body is who we are, it is only a vehicle that houses the soul while we are living in the physical body. After we die and ascend to the spiritual world (heaven) the soul takes on a new form, a spiritual body. This is explained in 1 Corinthians 15:40-54.

It is absolutely false that the memory of the dead are forgotten! We all know that the memory of our loved ones is not forgotten as it lives on in our mind.

Unless the New Testament is false, it is not true that there will be no reward.

The Old Testament was written before the New Testament, so there have been updates.

Jesus came into the world and now it is a whole new ball game. Jesus told us we will have eternal life if we believe in Him, and that means we can never really die. The soul is immortal so it can never die. Only the body dies since it is mortal, and no physical body ever comes back to life once it has died.

John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 4:13-14 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

There is certainly a reward for faithful ones. That is an important point. And Jesus said "Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." So for those to receive eternal life, what does this say it would entail?
And Jesus spoke about a resurrection.

 

[YoursTrue]

Agreed that when one dies there is no 'after party', however if you allow me I would argue in semantics that dying is life/living. All things alive at any given moment are all experiencing the process of dying, some may choose to call this 'living'. Death is the culmination of a thing coming to its finale, no longer living and no longer dying, simply dead.

I for one am unconvinced we have a sufficient definition let alone understanding of the completeness of such a grand concept as 'life and death', but it's fun to philosophize and hypothesize.

The Bible speaks of a resurrection of the dead. Although it does sound incredible, I believe it after having read the Bible, prayed about it, and thought about it. It makes sense to me.

 

[Trailblazer]

There is certainly a reward for faithful ones. That is an important point. And Jesus said "Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." So for those to receive eternal life, what does this say it would entail?
And Jesus spoke about a resurrection.

What do you think Jesus meant when He spoke of a resurrection?

 

[Trailblazer]

The Bible speaks of a resurrection of the dead. Although it does sound incredible, I believe it after having read the Bible, prayed about it, and thought about it. It makes sense to me.

Do you think the Bible speaks of a resurrection of dead bodies from their graves? That is not what I believe is meant by resurrection of the dead. Below is what I believe the Bible means by resurrection.

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Should humanity overcome death?

Death has dominated the human psyche, religion, philosophy, and culture since before the dawn of recorded history.

But should Humanity overcome death?

Or is it best to accept things as they are, and learn to live with the fact that death comes for all?

Personally, I no longer worry about death since I renounced my Christian faith and embraced my connection with the spiritual world. As a matter of fact, my personal experiences as a medium over the years have completely refuted my prior Christian beliefs about heaven and hell, as well as many Bible verses about the dead and what happens to us when we die. And now, rather than being afraid of death, I believe we should accept it as a natural part of life and recognize that the spirit world isn't limited to either heaven or hell as a final destination for our spirits, and reincarnation could be possible for us. Additionally, I think we should avoid being duped by the scare tactics that are often used in an attempt to persuade unbelievers like us to convert to a specific Abrahamic religion in an effort to save our souls and protect us from the angry wrath of a sadistic, jealous, and vindictive God who threatens to send us to hell if we don't grovel at his feet and beg for his forgiveness for our alleged transgressions against him. Of course, this is what I believe as an ex-Christian, a Wiccan, and a Spiritualist. I also accept the fact that not everyone believes in the spiritual world exactly as I believe.

 

[YoursTrue]

What do you think Jesus meant when He spoke of a resurrection?

Coming back to life. From the dead.

 

[YoursTrue]

Do you think the Bible speaks of a resurrection of dead bodies from their graves? That is not what I believe is meant by resurrection of the dead. Below is what I believe the Bible means by resurrection.

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

Bodies deteriorate upon death. So in order for a person to become 'alive,' or come back from the dead, that person must be in God's memory. Since Jesus said God his father knows every hair on our head, God can bring back a person to life.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Bodies deteriorate upon death. So in order for a person to become 'alive,' or come back from the dead, that person must be in God's memory. Since Jesus said God his father knows every hair on our head, God can bring back a person to life.

I have a friend who would seem to believe the world we visit in our sleep is the real one, and this waking one that I consider real is the actual dream. Perhaps it's akin to the idea that we're all in Brahma's dreamscape, awaiting to awaken from our slumber.

 

[YoursTrue]

I have a friend who would seem to believe the world we visit in our sleep is the real one, and this waking one that I consider real is the actual dream. Perhaps it's akin to the idea that we're all in Brahma's dreamscape, awaiting to awaken from our slumber.

OK, look. I have a relative who thinks he's of a certain tribe of the Jews, but has no proof of anything other than what his parents told him. And they have no proof other than what they were told. And my relative thinks he gets special messages from God. Here's what I think: some people are mixed up or deluded. There are angels and there are demons. These demons (and angels) cannot be seen by human eyes now. There are also brain malfunctions.

 

[YoursTrue]

I have a friend who would seem to believe the world we visit in our sleep is the real one, and this waking one that I consider real is the actual dream. Perhaps it's akin to the idea that we're all in Brahma's dreamscape, awaiting to awaken from our slumber.

thinking about what your friend might think/believe -- I shudder to contemplate it. I'm truly happy-er to realize what the Bible says about life without trouble, life without end, everlasting happiness, not nirvana, frankly. I kind of like living on the earth as a human and know and believe that whatever problems I or others have now will be done away with, but I look forward to life. "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." (Genesis) Now I believe that. I have no reason not to believe it.

 

[Trailblazer]

Coming back to life. From the dead.

The physical body coming back to life after it was dead and decomposed?
How is that possible and why would you want a physical body for all of eternity?

 

[Trailblazer]

Bodies deteriorate upon death. So in order for a person to become 'alive,' or come back from the dead, that person must be in God's memory. Since Jesus said God his father knows every hair on our head, God can bring back a person to life.

Even if God could do that why would God do that?

 

[Trailblazer]

I have a friend who would seem to believe the world we visit in our sleep is the real one, and this waking one that I consider real is the actual dream.

I agree, because I believe that we can visit the spiritual world while we are sleeping, and I believe that the spiritual world is the real world, and this world is just a shadow stretching out.

 

[rational experiences]

Science Knows biology as not mass that is held by pressures...is caused changed dies.

Biology cannot maintain presence inside mass pressure changes. As only mass owned it.

We live we die. Yet by terms knowledge should all be the same expressed equal mutual first DNA human life.

Should live the exact same time span also as human life.

We know we can die unnaturally before our time. A teaching.

So science causes can murder biologies life. Also a teaching.

It's causes and can force us to die before we were meant to.

A known healers human medical biological warning.

Don't change mass. God terms.

So don't make life die unnaturally our teaching of human spirituality.

A teaching to the reactive Theist scientist.

As all thesis caused by human men in science was unnatural human death.

Your answer a human in science didn't own a theory why biology existed lived then died.

To look back simply meant you used an application giving us death. Unnaturally.

As no scientist can thesis natural biology death in a biology thesis of the living.

No man is God warning about scientists. It's a real warning don't let him fool con coerce you.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Science Knows biology as not mass that is held by pressures...is caused changed dies.

Biology cannot maintain presence inside mass pressure changes. As only mass owned it.

We live we die. Yet by terms knowledge should all be the same expressed equal mutual first DNA human life.

Should live the exact same time span also as human life.

We know we can die unnaturally before our time. A teaching.

So science causes can murder biologies life. Also a teaching.

It's causes and can force us to die before we were meant to.

A known healers human medical biological warning.

Don't change mass. God terms.

So don't make life die unnaturally our teaching of human spirituality.

A teaching to the reactive Theist scientist.

As all thesis caused by human men in science was unnatural human death.

Your answer a human in science didn't own a theory why biology existed lived then died.

To look back simply meant you used an application giving us death. Unnaturally.

As no scientist can thesis natural biology death in a biology thesis of the living.

No man is God warning about scientists. It's a real warning don't let him fool con coerce you.

Do you suppose we or other men of prehistory arrived at the same level of development and dependence on technology and science? Only (apparently) for it to be destroyed by nature's indifference, or the more attractive possibility that it was the source of its own destruction and nigh mankind with it?

Just a thought experiment or fanciful supposition to fill in the mysterious holes in history.

 

[YoursTrue]

The physical body coming back to life after it was dead and decomposed?
How is that possible and why would you want a physical body for all of eternity?

OK, let's take the one that Jesus resurrected after he was in the tomb 3 days -- Lazarus. Remember that? He was in the tomb for 4 days and his sister Martha told Jesus that by now he must smell! Speaking of decomposing bodies -- John chapter 11, "Jesus said: “Take the stone away.” Martha, the sister of the deceased, said to him: “Lord, by now he must smell, for it has been four days.” 40 Jesus said to her: “Did I not tell you that if you would believe you would see the glory of God?” 41 So they took the stone away. Then Jesus raised his eyes heavenward+ and said: “Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42 True, I knew that you always hear me; but I spoke on account of the crowd standing around, so that they may believe that you sent me.” 43 When he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice: “Lazarus, come out!” 44 The man who had been dead came out with his feet and hands bound with wrappings, and his face was wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them: “Free him and let him go.”
But for the dead ones whose bodies are no more at all -- they, too, can be resurrected.
There's more but I'll stop there for a moment -- later. Thanks for thoughtful conversation.

 

[YoursTrue]

Do you suppose we or other men of prehistory arrived at the same level of development and dependence on technology and science? Only (apparently) for it to be destroyed by nature's indifference, or the more attractive possibility that it was the source of its own destruction and nigh mankind with it?

Just a thought experiment or fanciful supposition to fill in the mysterious holes in history.

I think that God knew that mankind, left without godly direction stemming from Adam and Eve's fall, would come to this position of degradation and near destruction on the earth. That is one reason why Jesus offered the 'model' prayer, or the "Our Father" prayer -- Let your kingdom come. Revelation says that God will eventually ruin those ruining the earth.
Revelation 11:the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.”