Origin of Evil

[gnostic]

Hi Vicegrip.

You can edit your post. On the first line, remove the slash, to make your quote work properly.

 

[may]

The one thing that always confuses me about this topic, though, is this:

If God isn't evil and didn't create evil, but created man that had evil in them, doesn't this mean God created evil?

Evil began with a spirit creature who, though originally faithful to God, developed a desire to be worshiped.
But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death
(James 1:14, 15) His rebellion manifested itself on earth when he influenced the first human couple to join him in his opposition to God.

 

[standing_alone]

But since God created everything, then he had to have created evil. I don't understand how anyone can say, "Well, it's because of something else God created," be it a "spirit creature" or humankind, because if God created it and gave it the capability to do "evil," then God had to have created evil by allowing certain "members" of his creation to choose "evil."

 

[alexander garcia]

Hi,Look up Isa.45:7 if you are looking for what scripture says. As to why as the Almighty told JOB who are you to question ME?

 

[Pah]

Hi,Look up Isa.45:7 if you are looking for what scripture says. As to why as the Almighty told JOB who are you to question ME?

Wasn't it Jacob? and you'd have to then say light stands for good and darkness for evil - which isn't a certain interpreation of that verse.

 

[sojourner]

But since God created everything, then he had to have created evil. I don't understand how anyone can say, "Well, it's because of something else God created," be it a "spirit creature" or humankind, because if God created it and gave it the capability to do "evil," then God had to have created evil by allowing certain "members" of his creation to choose "evil."

Evil is not part of creation. When God had finished creating, God said that it was good. Evil is not good -- it is the absence of good. Evil is not a construct, or a fabrication, or a product of someone or something. It's not like a heat pump that produces heat and then produces cold. Evil is more like the vacuum of space. There can only be cold in the absence of heat. Cold cannot exist where there is heat. Where there is a sun, there is heat. Where there is no sun, there is cold.

Since God gave us the ability to make choices, the choices we make in the absence of God (good), are evil choices.

 

[standing_alone]

Since God gave us the ability to make choices, the choices we make in the absence of God (good), are evil choices.

But since God gave us this ability to make evil choices, he had to create evil - because where else would evil come from if there was no conept of it created?

 

[sojourner]

But since God gave us this ability to make evil choices, he had to create evil - because where else would evil come from if there was no conept of it created?

God didn't create darkness...and yet, it is there. But only in the absence of the created light. God didn't create evil, yet it is here, but only in the absence of the created good.

 

[may]

But since God created everything, then he had to have created evil. I don't understand how anyone can say, "Well, it's because of something else God created," be it a "spirit creature" or humankind, because if God created it and gave it the capability to do "evil," then God had to have created evil by allowing certain "members" of his creation to choose "evil."

so if you turn into a thief is it your parents fault, even though they did not teach you to be a thief? i suppose God could have made us robots but he didnt, are you not glad about that?

 

[standing_alone]

God didn't create darkness...and yet, it is there. But only in the absence of the created light. God didn't create evil, yet it is here, but only in the absence of the created good.

Okay, I can see where you're coming from there. Makes sense from a theological standpoint.

so if you turn into a thief is it your parents fault, even though they did not teach you to be a thief?

This is a faulty analogy. Parents and their children are both human beings and, therefore, "sinners." What we're talking about is God (who is supposedly perfect) and his botched (imperfect) creation that "created evil."

i suppose God could have made us robots but he didnt, are you not glad about that?

I don't believe God exists, but if he did and did create us, I guess it's good we aren't robots. But take a look at his followers, they seem rather robotic to me, programmed with dogma, following his command, going to church to worship him. That's kind of like being a robot.

 

[Vicegrip]

Hi Vicegrip.

You can edit your post. On the first line, remove the slash, to make your quote work properly.

Thanx gnostic.

 

[gnostic]

I think the light and darkness is also a faulty argument. If God didn't create darkness, then who did? It certainly wasn't Satan, especially if God had existed long before Satan.

Sorry, sojourner, but this metaphor doesn't work; since you as a Christian, you would believe that he created everything, that he didn't created darkness or cold just doesn't wash.

 

[dawny0826]

This is more of a question than anything... im curious of the Christian idea for the original of evil. I've been looking through the Catholic Catechism trying to find an answer, but i was unable to come up with any. I realize the original idea was that Lucifer, an angel, went against God's plan for humanity, and was therefore cast down into hell for eternal suffering Thus, the first act of evil.

But how could lucifer have CHOSEN evil, if it hadn't existed yet? By saying "the first act of evil" are we not presupposing that evil exists before this? And, if evil existed before lucifer, then evil must have existed indefinitely, thus implying God cannot be either all-loving (if he created evil) or all-powerful (if he dind't create evil).

Anyway, i'm just curious what the Christian standpoint on the origin of evil is....Any input would be appreciate.

Evil was birthed from the very first act of disobedience and defiance against God.

I believe evil is the very absence of God. When Satan turned away from God...evil was born.

 

[Pah]

I think the light and darkness is also a faulty argument. If God didn't create darkness, then who did? It certainly wasn't Satan, especially if God had existed long before Satan.
...

I think that sojourner thinks that the creation of one just makes the opposite suddenly appear. At least he would have us believe that.

If that is the magic of God's creation, why was it neccessary to create Eve?

 

[gnostic]

I think that sojourner thinks that the creation of one just makes the opposite suddenly appear. At least he would have us believe that.

That would only be an assumption. He can't tell whether God created darkness and cold or not, so there is high chance that sojourner is wrong.

 

[sojourner]

I think the light and darkness is also a faulty argument. If God didn't create darkness, then who did? It certainly wasn't Satan, especially if God had existed long before Satan.

Sorry, sojourner, but this metaphor doesn't work; since you as a Christian, you would believe that he created everything, that he didn't created darkness or cold just doesn't wash.

Nobody created darkness, because, as I said, darkness is not part of the creation, or a constructed thing. Darkness is nothing -- it is absence of light. Evil is absence of good. It is not a thing, in and of itself. God did not create it, because what God created was good, and that good is manifest in the earth, in humanity, in plant and animal life. God created light, not light and dark. God created good, not good and evil.

Look at it this way: We cannot create darkness. We can only create light -- fire, light bulbs, etc. But we cannot create darkness. We can only strive to cut out the light. What is darkness, but the absence of sunlight. Darkness does not overcome light, but light dispels darkness. In order to have darkness, the earth must turn from the sun.

It's the same with evil. When we strive to create evil, we are only shutting out, or turning away from, God.

I think that sojourner thinks that the creation of one just makes the opposite suddenly appear. At least he would have us believe that.

If that is the magic of God's creation, why was it neccessary to create Eve?

Read carefully. That's not what I said at all. Darkness was there before God created light. It was there because light was not there.

Male and female are complimentary -- not one in absentia. God did not create us male or female. God created us male and female.

 

[may]

I don't believe God exists, but if he did and did create us, I guess it's good we aren't robots. But take a look at his followers, they seem rather robotic to me, programmed with dogma, following his command, going to church to worship him. That's kind of like being a robot.

A truly happy life is directly related to paying attention to Jehovah’s commandments.—Isa. 48:17, 18.
This is what Jehovah has said, your Repurchaser, the Holy One of Israel: "I, Jehovah, am your God, the One teaching you to benefit [yourself], the One causing you to tread in the way in which you should walk. O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea............ for me being programed in the ways of Jehovah are the best thing to do, and that would be found in the bible not in the traditions of the church,as far as i am concerned the churches of christendom do not lead people to the bible,they lead people to manmade doctrines

 

[standing_alone]

for me being programed in the ways of Jehovah are the best thing to do, and that would be found in the bible not in the traditions of the church

Maybe for you, but not for me. I've been a happier (and better, more open and accepting person) after losing my faith instead of when I had faith. That's more important to me, myself as a person, than gaining some promised afterlife. But that's just me.

as far as i am concerned the churches of christendom do not lead people to the bible,they lead people to manmade doctrines

I'm inclined to agree with you there, based on my own experience with Christianity.

 

[may]

Maybe for you, but not for me. I've been a happier (and better, more open and accepting person) after losing my faith instead of when I had faith. That's more important to me, myself as a person, than gaining some promised afterlife. But that's just me.



I'm inclined to agree with you there, based on my own experience with Christianity.

the immortality of the human soul is another tradtion of the church ,it is not a bible teaching , even though they try to make it seem that way:tsk:

 

[ashai]

This is more of a question than anything... im curious of the Christian idea for the original of evil. I've been looking through the Catholic Catechism trying to find an answer, but i was unable to come up with any. I realize the original idea was that Lucifer, an angel, went against God's plan for humanity, and was therefore cast down into hell for eternal suffering Thus, the first act of evil.

But how could lucifer have CHOSEN evil, if it hadn't existed yet? By saying "the first act of evil" are we not presupposing that evil exists before this? And, if evil existed before lucifer, then evil must have existed indefinitely, thus implying God cannot be either all-loving (if he created evil) or all-powerful (if he dind't create evil).

Anyway, i'm just curious what the Christian standpoint on the origin of evil is....Any input would be appreciate.

Ushta hotcolaut

Is this thread for Christians only , or are you interested in finding others opinions on the origin of evil, as well?

Ushta Te
Ashai