(Opinion) Another conservative faces public shunning. Liberals grow bolder with their intolerance.

[icehorse]

You can be anything but conservative and be accepted. Conservatives are the one group that it's ok to hate.

An open question for the folks participating in this thread:

What specifically are "conservative ideas" or opinions these days?

I think of myself as a classic liberal, the way Bill Maher describes it. I feel that there are extremists on the left and on the right. But I also think there are moderate conservatives.

So does anyone have any specific ideas about conservatism? To be clear, I don't think we need to waste time calling out white supremacists, the alt-right and such - that's obvious stuff.

To get the ball rolling, I would say one idea I disagree with is the whole trickle-down economics that started with Reagan and exists in various guises today. The idea of giving tax breaks to the rich is just a bad idea.

Others?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Moreover, eventually the cancelers will be canceled themselves.

Which is starting to happen. .

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

In their opinion perhaps. You realize conservatives think the same about liberals?

I am painfully aware that Conservatives think the same about Liberals. I reference you back to the "Conservatives making our lives hell" statement. Difference here being the things that Conservatives whine about are either a) demonstrably fabricated; b) entirely misrepresentative of what is actually being said or going on; c) a complete non-issue to anyone else at large; d) all of the above. And then they write legislature based on their hurt wittle feewings that in turn make working, socializing, and basic living an absolute hell for anyone who is not a Straight, White, Christian Male.

I do understand the owner's plight.
The problem is that people should not care about what others think.

Easier said then done when what others think influences thousands and is implemented into effective law. Easier said when one is not the target or victim of those thoughts and outspoken statements. Conversely, perhaps Gianno Caldwell should not get so bent out of shape about what the restaurant owner thinks and eat somewhere more welcoming of his presence.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

To get the ball rolling, I would say one idea I disagree with is the whole trickle-down economics that started with Reagan and exists in various guises today. The idea of giving tax breaks to the rich is just a bad idea. Others?

That's about it. Everything else is purely contrarianism; aside from protecting Corporate and Generational Wealth, Conservativism is purely composed of objecting to and impeding progressive and liberal ideologies and measures. Which is tragically ironic as nothing about progressivism or liberalism directly opposes what Conservatives claim to uphold - freedom of choice, expression, and self-actualization even for staunch Christians. It simply inhibits one's ability to negatively impact the lives of one's neighbors.

Ultimately this contrarianism is careening towards fascism. Opposition to intellectualism, the arts, education, and free expression. Disdain for human rights. Rallying behind "the other" ("Woke" the new "Juden"). And of course upholding children as pawns for instating a Surveillance State.

 

[The Hammer]

Reminds me of the Paradox of Tolerance.

 

[Stevicus]

Yes, awareness of the situation is wise and a part of basic decency. If this guy was being loudly offensive like the restaurant's statement said, I can see a good case to kick him out.

On the other hand, kicking someone out solely based on politics even if they're not loud is a different story. I feel unsafe and avoid even quiet conversation about certain topics in public because the reception of my views where I live could compromise my physical safety.

I'm not sure what he actually said or how loud he might have said it. This is where video footage might have come in handy, but I can understand where some people might get a bit loud in restaurants, especially if it's crowded and a lot of people are talking. Sometimes voices carry and one can unintentionally eavesdrop on someone else's conversation.

I've noticed it to be more of a regional thing, at least in America. I see that this occurred in Miami, so maybe it was in a more liberal area. If he had been up in northern Florida or somewhere around Mar-A-Lago, they might have given him a free Grand Slam breakfast. That's where liberals might be harassed and kicked out of places.

Actually, when it comes to canceling, harassing, and kicking people out of places, conservatives actually do have a far worse track record in that regard, at least historically in the American experience. (Actually, even much worse than that.) So, when put against that historical perspective, it might seem to some to be some petty, feeble complaint from a conservative about being kicked out of a liberal place because of his politics. Not that I'm saying that's what happened (since it's not really clear), but I can see where some people might find it hard to be sympathetic under the circumstances.

If that's what it is, then I probably wouldn't have a great problem with it. My only real issue is when a statement or idea which might be mildly politically incorrect is lumped in with the worst of the worst. It creates a false perception in society which leads to confusion and an inability to properly differentiate between what is truly dangerous versus what may be relatively more innocuous. That seems to be a growing complaint these days, that a disturbingly growing number of people aren't able to distinguish what is true and what is false.

 

[Twilight Hue]

That's about it. Everything else is purely contrarianism; aside from protecting Corporate and Generational Wealth, Conservativism is purely composed of objecting to and impeding progressive and liberal ideologies and measures. Which is tragically ironic as nothing about progressivism or liberalism directly opposes what Conservatives claim to uphold - freedom of choice, expression, and self-actualization even for staunch Christians. It simply inhibits one's ability to negatively impact the lives of one's neighbors.

Ultimately this contrarianism is careening towards fascism. Opposition to intellectualism, the arts, education, and free expression. Disdain for human rights. Rallying behind "the other" ("Woke" the new "Juden"). And of course upholding children as pawns for instating a Surveillance State.

Like socialism, Communism, and Marxism is so much better.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Should political speech be grounds for legally
trespassing someone, based upon perception
of a threat without an actual threat?
You might be surprised what beliefs could be
considered such a threat by various people.
You might be threatened by gay rights opposition.
I could claim a threat by opposition to capitalism.
What a can of worms, eh.

I've trespassed & evicted people for actual
threats, but never for expressing beliefs.
(Loudness hasn't ever been a problem.)

Well, I did say I "might" think differently. I'm a liberal, and I believe in the right to freedom of expression. I do not believe in the right to be disruptive, however, especially when it might disrupt my other customers -- and that is a reason to consider not serving.

As it happens, my partner and I have been in restaurant situations where people have called us g'dam **** etc. We have not complained, nor asked them to be removed. Although I will tell you -- it is hurtful, even though we're both strong enough to deal with it.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Like socialism, Communism, and Marxism is so much better.

Ah, and so enters the what-about-ism.

I'm assuming your a Conservative, Hue? A platform built on nothing but opposing anything and everything done by the other side of the table (which, by the way, our Democrats are Republicans to the developed world) is not a viable platform. "Yeah but what about..." isn't a stance, it's deflection. Conservativism is thus weak, pathetic, and a constant shallow cop-out pantomiming providence to the lowest denominator and reaping victory from their unwavering stupidity.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Ah, and so enters the what-about-ism.

I'm assuming your a Conservative, Hue? A platform built on nothing but opposing anything and everything done by the other side of the table (which, by the way, our Democrats are Republicans to the developed world) is not a viable platform. "Yeah but what about..." isn't a stance, it's deflection. Conservativism is thus weak, pathetic, and a constant shallow cop-out pantomiming providence to the lowest denominator and reaping victory from their unwavering stupidity.

Yea right.

Like the two most oppressive states , NY and California are run by left wing Marxist Socialist wannabes .

I'll stay with Conservativism thank you very much.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I do not believe in the right to be disruptive, however, especially when it might disrupt my other customers -- and that is a reason to consider not serving.

Well, social disruption in general is an entire topic on its own. "Blasphemy" is one of the most socially disruptive behaviors possible, but I suspect you and I agree that it should not be banned.

I think the dynamics and rules simply change based on the venue (e.g., a restaurant versus a seminar or public speech). Inside a restaurant, social disruption is a no-no, in my opinion.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Yea right. Like the two most oppressive states , NY and California are run by left wing Marxist Socialist wannabes.

I want you to define exactly what makes New York and California the "most oppressive states".

 

[fantome profane]

Am I alone in thinking we are only getting half the story? I am skeptical. I find it hard to believe that he was discussing trickle down economics, or balance budgets, or tax policies. I suspect this is about something else.

And I admit I could be biased. But if society is becoming less tolerant of racism, or sexism, or anti-lgbtq bigotry this is a good thing.

 

[The Hammer]

Like socialism, Communism, and Marxism is so much better.

Yes

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

But that's not socially acceptable hatred. Hating conservatives is.

That should tell you something. Who else is it socially acceptable to hate? Pedophiles, drunk drivers, and terrorists come to mind.

In their opinion perhaps.

Who else's opinion should they hold? And those who see the Republicans as the enemy of the Constitution, the rule of law, egalitarianism, church-state separation, the middle class, and of their Social Security and Medicare are correct about them, and their designs for America and their lives.

The hypocrisy is pathetic.

What hypocrisy? Intolerance of the intolerant by those advocating for tolerance? If that's what you meant, then you don't understand what is being offered. I just saw Popper's paradox posted above, which expresses the reasonableness of that position.

 

[icehorse]

Yea right.

Like the two most oppressive states , NY and California are run by left wing Marxist Socialist wannabes .

I'll stay with Conservativism thank you very much.

What specific ideas are you supporting. For right now, I'm not asking what ideas you oppose, I'm genuinely curious to know what ideas or policies you support?

 

[Wildswanderer]

That should tell you something. Who else is it socially acceptable to hate? Pedophiles, drunk drivers, and terrorists come to mind.

Who else's opinion should they hold? And those who see the Republicans as the enemy of the Constitution, the rule of law, egalitarianism, church-state separation, the middle class, and of their Social Security and Medicare are correct about them, and their designs for America and their lives.

Hogwash.
The socialists are of the enemy of the Constitution.
It tells me that prejudice never goes away, it just changes faces.

 

[Wildswanderer]

same about Liberals. I reference you back to the "Conservatives making our lives hell" statement. Difference here being the things that Conservatives whine about are either a) demonstrably fabricated; b) entirely misrepresentative of what is actually being said or going on; c) a complete non-issue to anyone else at large; d) all of the above. And then they write legislature based on their hurt wittle feewings that in turn make working, socializing, and basic living an absolute hell for anyone who is not a Straight, White, Christian Male.

What a crock.
Meanwhile, we have a government that wants to take away real rights, and the left is good with that.
Conservatives have not made the liberals lives hell, but thanks for the laugh.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Meanwhile, we have a government that wants to take away real rights, and the left is good with that.

Name some.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There also seems to be a "boy who cried wolf" quality about this, where every little thing, every conceivable utterance which might be questionable, is attacked and derided as if it was the worst thing in the world. The problem with such a tactic is that, while it may work for a little while to keep people in line, sooner or later, the "worst thing in the world" will start to look "not quite so bad" in many people's eyes.

Don't forget the hypocrisy. They think doing this perfectly OK and their right to do when it's their own, private religious views that find another offensive, particularly queers.