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One reason why Jesus has not yet returned.

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
i have asked this before. and as things are no better today why does Jesus not come now?
One reason why he hasn't come before now is because there is an underlying piece of the landscape very few people seem to be aware of. I'll kind of lay it out in brief here for your consideration.

Under King David's sons, the kingdom became divided into two separate kingdoms. In the course of time both of them became considered by the Lord to be adulterous wives. He named them Aholah and Aholibah. He put them away and had them stoned to death. It wouldn't be until it was time for them to resurrect from the dead that the Lord would return to them. We can glean factors from holy writ to project when this could be and know it wouldn't be prior.
Ezekiel 23
4 And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah.
...
36 The LORD said moreover unto me; Son of man, wilt thou judge Aholah and Aholibah? yea, declare unto them their abominations;
37 That they have committed adultery, and blood is in their hands, and with their idols have they committed adultery, and have also caused their sons, whom they bare unto me, to pass for them through the fire, to devour them.
...
46 For thus saith the Lord GOD; I will bring up a company upon them, and will give them to be removed and spoiled.
47 And the company shall stone them with stones, and dispatch them with their swords; they shall slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire.

Elsewhere Ezekiel says a bit more detail about the consequences of their actions.
Ezekiel 4
1 Thou also, son of man, take thee a tile, and lay it before thee, and pourtray upon it the city, even Jerusalem [Aholibah]:
2 And lay siege against it, and build a fort against it, and cast a mount against it; set the camp also against it, and set battering rams against it round about.
3 Moreover take thou unto thee an iron pan, and set it for a wall of iron between thee and the city: and set thy face against it, and it shall be besieged, and thou shalt lay siege against it. This shall be a sign to the house of Israel [Aholah].
4 Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity.
5 For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel [Aholah].
6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah [Aholibah] forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.
7 Therefore thou shalt set thy face toward the siege of Jerusalem, and thine arm shall be uncovered, and thou shalt prophesy against it.
8 And, behold, I will lay bands upon thee, and thou shalt not turn thee from one side to another, till thou hast ended the days of thy siege.
9 Take thou also unto thee wheat, and barley, and beans, and lentiles, and millet, and fitches, and put them in one vessel, and make thee bread thereof, according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon thy side, three hundred and ninety days shalt thou eat thereof.
10 And thy meat which thou shalt eat shall be by weight, twenty shekels a day: from time to time shalt thou eat it.
11 Thou shalt drink also water by measure, the sixth part of an hin: from time to time shalt thou drink.
12 And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight.
13 And the LORD said, Even thus shall the children of Israel [Aholah] eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them.
Here we see the Lord giving a definite measure of time that these adulterous wives will endure (comparitively) very sorrowful conditions in their state of being scattered. Thus, He won't come to redeem them until their period of "judgment" or punishment is expired.

Extracting the timeframe from verses 5 & 6 we see the northern kingdom and the southern kingdom received differing periods of time. And, from verse 6 we learn each day Ezekiel suffered under the conditions the Lord commanded him to perform in the sight of the people translated into a year that the people would suffer.
Northern kingdom = 390 days -> 390 years
Southern kingdom = 40 days -> 40 years
Now, since God had tried to get the people to reform and mend their ways and they did not do so, there is another provision in law that says any judgment the Lord passes that does not bring the people to reform shall be multiplied by 7.
Leviticus 26
21 And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.
22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate.
23 And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me;
24 Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.
25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
So, what we have going on here is a 7x multiplier such that:
Northern kingdom = 390 years x 7 = 2,730 years
Southern kingdom = 40 years x 7 = 280 years

Thus, the people of the southern kingdom would be eligible to be redeemed from their period of judgment or punishment much earlier than the people of the northern kingdom would be.

Ezekiel 4:13 indicated the northern kingdom would be scattered (like a decomposing body) all among the Gentiles for that period of time. They would totally forget their identity and everything. They would become what Jesus called "the lost sheep of Israel".

We should bear in mind, at the time Ezekiel delivered this prophecy, both of the kingdoms had been stoned to death. This is information "after the fact" so that they would know the full ramifications of the punishment being brought upon them. Judah also became as if it were a scattered and decomposing body among the Babylonians and Persions and beyond.

So, history shows us that the people of the southern kingdom were in fact gathered back together, amid considerable persecution, and finally able to overcome to some extent their condition of death and live as a somewhat functional societal body again. This also means they were eligible, on their own account, to have the Lord come to them again and reestablish a new covenant with them since they obviously broke the former covenant and were put to death.

However, there is one part where Ezekiel gives them some pretty bad news. In chapter 23 where he is talking about the two sisters, he says to Aholibah, who is Judah, that she shall also share in her sister's cup.
Ezekiel 23
31 Thou [Aholibah] hast walked in the way of thy sister; therefore will I give her cup into thine hand.
So, what the Lord is saying is the time would come that her fate would become tied to the fate of her sister. She would eventually be lumped into her sisters circumstances. Thus, the period of 2,730 years becomes meaningful for those of the southern kingdom too. Eventually, they are all in it together. Aholibah would be scattered and decomposing among all the nations of the Gentiles along with her sister Aholah. And so on.

However, before her fate was tied into her sister's fate, she was eligible to receive her King and be redeemed. Thus, as is protocol, He came. But, the landscape was pitted against their success. Even though their Messiah did come to them, it was impossible for success to be obtained at that time. Thus, their Messiah was 'stumped' in His bid to establish the Kingdom at that time.

As soon as this was accomplished then the Lord gave Aholah's cup into Aholibah's hand to share in it and Rome came in and smashed them as a living societal body again and made them into a decomposing body scattered among the Gentiles, just as her sister Aholah had been for centuries already.

Thus, they all were in a state of death in terms of being a living autonomous societal body living freely in accordance to God's laws and statutes. And, they would not be gathered (resurrected) and given "life" again until the period of their judgment had become expired. At least not without some very unfortunate consequences, as we shall see.

(To be continued...)
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
(...Continued)

Verse 25 in Leviticus 26 also mentions something very important. AFTER they have been gathered again (resurrected) and are established in their cities, etc. there was yet more to follow. Their punishment isn't over just yet. They would suffer much pestillence (persecution) and ultimately be delivered into the hand of their enemy.

So, if you want to consider Adam and Eve as being resurrected Jehovah and Israel, you can now understand the basis in law for why Adam and Eve "fell". Eve had on her track record some very serious sins and had ascribed to herself some very serious woes in her resurrection that would naturally flow and there was nothing she could do about it. Her past choices determined her future circumstances.

So, we should expect to see an initial period of gathering of Israel and Judah surrounded by much persecution and difficulty. We should also expect to see them given into the hand of their enemy. The implications of this I'll leave you to make on your own. But, assure yourself, it isn't going to be pretty. Aholah and Aholibah have some VERY dark times ahead as this is yet coming to be.

But, the good news is that the punishment won't last forever. In due time their enemy's claim to have right to be their adversary and to take them for a spoil and make a mockery of them and make them their unwitting minions of evil, etc. shall come to an end. Then, at that point their opportunity for redemption and salvation from out of the grasp of their enemy's hand shall come. God shall come to them in the flesh and cleanse them and purify them and breathe life back into them and establish them again as His covenant Bride free of the persecutions of the world, etc.

This period of redemption and renewal is the time of separation between light and dark and actually corresponds with Day 1 of a brand new creation while the previous creation passes away having been left for dead and in the grips of the enemy it was fully given over to. The reason there is so much darkness prior to Day 1 is because the enemy will have completely overcome all of that which is good.

So, what are the dates we can extrapolate from all this?

Here are the beginning points:
The decree for Assyria to destroy Samaria occurred in 745 BCE.
Assyria laid siege to Samaria and sacked it from 723 to 721 BCE.
Here are the anniversary dates we can extrapolate by adding 2,730 years:
The decree of the "fulness of the Gentiles" (meaning its over for them) is 1986.
The concrete sign that the siege has breached and that it's over for them occurs 2008 to 2010.
So, prior to this time, any effort to redeem Aholah or Aholibah can be assured that it would not stand and result in their blessing. Of course things are taking shape for that eventual outcome, but success prior to that time would be impossible.

So, we are entering a very unique time. Aholah and Aholibah are delivered fully into the hand of their enemy, but they shall eventually be redeemed when the Messiah for which they are all looking for comes.

As I understand it, this Messiah shall be the manifestation of the return of Jesus as well as the manifestation of the return of fallen Adam that Jesus redeems. This redemption comes about as a resule of their entering into union. Thus, Adam was an advent of Messiah subsequent to Jesus that came too soon (so to speak) to fall with His Bride so that He could descend with Her and be the means of redeeming Her.

As the name Adam implies, He was the Father who was ordained unto death's double portion and became the Holy Ghost.
  • Aleph = Head = Father
  • Daleth = Death
  • Mem = Ordained (with implication of a Double-Portion/Ephraim)
Then, the Holy Ghost or Adam shall be redeemed by the Son and a new advent shall arrive when all things are finally completely eligible for the Kingdom to obtain the victory. This shall be the advent of the Father, the Almighty God, the First and the Last, the Alpha and Omega, etc.

In this way we understand the truth of what Isaiah was talking about in chapter 44 verse 6:
"Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel (Adam), and his (Adam's) redeemer the LORD of hosts (Jesus); I (those two in union) am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."
The Messiah the Jews, Christians, Muslims, Mormons, etc. are looking for is the FATHER and He could not have come prior to the year 2010 in the capacity of obtaining victory for the whole house of Israel and the world of Islam. It had to wait for an entire new Creation to come about in order for their salvation and redemption to come. How glorious this shall be. And, I try to remind myself, it may yet be a long time coming, but at least we can solidly step on this foundation.
 
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BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
>One rason why Jesus hasn't returned

Jesus the man will NEVER return: He was a one-time phenomenon!

But the CHRIST SPIRIT has indeed returned, and indeed did so about a century and a half ago, with the new name both the Jewish and Christian scriptures promised!

And the Baha'i Faith, which is already world wide, is the direct result of this event!

Peace, :)

Bruce
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
One reason why he hasn't come before now is because there is an underlying piece of the landscape very few people seem to be aware of. I'll kind of lay it out in brief here for your consideration.
I would think it would be much more practical than scriptural revisionism. such as the fact that he was nailed to a cross. hard. or the fact that it has been 2000 years and the dust of his bones has mixed with the earth in the Judean desert centuries ago.
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
>One rason why Jesus hasn't returned

Jesus the man will NEVER return: He was a one-time phenomenon!

But the CHRIST SPIRIT has indeed returned, and indeed did so about a century and a half ago, with the new name both the Jewish and Christian scriptures promised!

And the Baha'i Faith, which is already world wide, is the direct result of this event!

Peace, :)

Bruce
I plan to make a thorough investigation of the Baha'i Faith.
It seems to me to be the resurrection of Islam but that's just a hunch.

Do you have anything to say about the material I presented here?
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
I would think it would be much more practical than scriptural revisionism. such as the fact that he was nailed to a cross. hard. or the fact that it has been 2000 years and the dust of his bones has mixed with the earth in the Judean desert centuries ago.
Perhaps I should make it clear, I do not believe in a literal bodily return of Jesus. I believe the eternal spirit or soul of Jesus will manifest through a future advent of Messiah. This advent shall be, as Jesus was, in all outward appearances, an ordinary man.

Were you able to follow the landscape I see in the Jewish Law and the Prophets?
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
Why would expect a second coming if you missed or didn't acknowledge the first?
Pardon me if I wasn't clear. All Abrahamic faiths are Messiah based. Thus, they look for the advent of their Messiah, whether it's the first or second really wasn't the main focus. As you can see, I hold that there are actually three distinct advents of Messiah and each advent is a distinct personage that shall appear on the outside to be an ordinary man.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Do you have anything to say about the material I presented here?

Well, I basically said what seemed relevant already. Except for the prophecies, we don't get into too many details of things like the Jewish scriptures because we have 200 volumes of our own, Baha'i scripture on which to base our lives!

I plan to make a thorough investigation of the Baha'i Faith.
It seems to me to be the resurrection of Islam but that's just a hunch.


That would be true only in the broadest sense where EVERY religion is the renewal of those that have come before!

The Baha'i Faith has new teachings that differ from those of Islam as well as its own laws and practices, which again, aren't all that similar! I'm sure you'll discover this as you study it further.

For starters, you can get accurate information by visiting these sites:

The Bahá

Bahai Faith | Baha'i Faith | United States Official Website

And any questions are msot welcome! :)

Best regards,

Bruce
 

Gauss

Member
Did not Jesus say that Elijah would first arrive to turn people good again before judgment and then Jesus would present himself(second coming) after judgment?

In fact Jesus said Elijah is the greatest man to ever come out of a mother´s womb.

That means the reincarnated Jesus will come back to learn Elijah´s teachings, Elijah is the real Son-of-Man(Al-Mahdi in islam, Slidr in Asatro, Kalki Avatar in Hinduism and the Holy King of the Wheel in Buddhism) and Jesus is Yahweh´s son.

In my humble opinion Li Hongzhi is Elijah and his teachings are Falun Dafa(Mind-Body cultivation) based on Truthfulness-Compassion-Forbearance. And they have been spread across the globe since 1992. Very few people listen or understand the importance of these teachings.

They are unique teachings and everyone will know who reads the scriptures from Li Hongzhi.

Everything in Falun Dafa matches the prophecies across all orthodox religions(the three duties in islam, the law wheel in the bible, Khalifa(Kha+Li+Fa), the name "Li", his origin from China, the persecution by the great red dragon in the bible, 1999 july matches Nostradamus prediction, the fig tree flowerring across the world today etc etc).

Just my two cents, no truth offered whatsoever.
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
Did not Jesus say that Elijah would first arrive to turn people good again before judgment and then Jesus would present himself(second coming) after judgment?
Yes, this is correct. If you look at Elijah as a mantle of authority in the ancient Hebrew tradition you see him in the capacity of what I call Lord's Anointed. The Lord's Anointed Prophet is superior in authority to the King and the Priest. You can also look at Jetho in this capacity to Moses.

Moses was a King-Priest type or foreshadow of the future Messiah.
Jethro was a type or foreshadow of the future Elijah.

Jesus was in the King-Priest Moses role.
John the Baptist was in the Jethro or Elijah role.

The Messiah of the Latter-days shall also become a King-Priest.
The Elijah of the Latter-days shall be a Lord's Anointed Prophet.

There is one interesting part of history to look at. When Adam was created he was given all three mantles of authority. He was Prophet, Priest and King. There was no Elijah figure for him to go to and thus he required the ministration of angels.

In fact Jesus said Elijah is the greatest man to ever come out of a mother´s womb.
That is because John the Baptist was his superior in terms of accountability. Just as the kings and priests were subject to Elijah before, Jesus also recognized as a king and a priest his authority was subject to John the Baptist's. This is why it was John the Baptist who performed the ordinances for Jesus.

That means the reincarnated Jesus will come back to learn Elijah´s teachings, Elijah is the real Son-of-Man
I don't believe in reincarnation as viewed by the world. But, I do believe the Messiah of the Latter-days will need to find the Jethro-Elijah group and receive his reawakening to the truth, receive his priesthood authority, etc. and to continue counseling with him as he carrys out his duties. I see this pair (acting in union) as manifesting the Eloheim or Father who stands at the head of a new cycle of creation.

(Al-Mahdi in islam, Slidr in Asatro, Kalki Avatar in Hinduism and the Holy King of the Wheel in Buddhism) and Jesus is Yahweh´s son.
I agree there are patterns for this in other religions. But, in the case of the Kalki Avatar, we are a long ways off from the end of Kali Yuga so we are in a smaller cycle that is patterned after the bigger one.

In my humble opinion Li Hongzhi is Elijah and his teachings are Falun Dafa(Mind-Body cultivation) based on Truthfulness-Compassion-Forbearance. And they have been spread across the globe since 1992. Very few people listen or understand the importance of these teachings.
I have never heard of this before.
Do they have information on the internet?

They are unique teachings and everyone will know who reads the scriptures from Li Hongzhi.

Everything in Falun Dafa matches the prophecies across all orthodox religions(the three duties in islam, the law wheel in the bible, Khalifa(Kha+Li+Fa), the name "Li", his origin from China, the persecution by the great red dragon in the bible, 1999 july matches Nostradamus prediction, the fig tree flowerring across the world today etc etc).

Just my two cents, no truth offered whatsoever.
Perhaps you could go into more detail in a separate thread on this. It sounds interesting to investigate.
 

Gauss

Member
Yes, this is correct. If you look at Elijah as a mantle of authority in the ancient Hebrew tradition you see him in the capacity of what I call Lord's Anointed. The Lord's Anointed Prophet is superior in authority to the King and the Priest. You can also look at Jetho in this capacity to Moses.

Moses was a King-Priest type or foreshadow of the future Messiah.
Jethro was a type or foreshadow of the future Elijah.

Jesus was in the King-Priest Moses role.
John the Baptist was in the Jethro or Elijah role.

The Messiah of the Latter-days shall also become a King-Priest.
The Elijah of the Latter-days shall be a Lord's Anointed Prophet.

There is one interesting part of history to look at. When Adam was created he was given all three mantles of authority. He was Prophet, Priest and King. There was no Elijah figure for him to go to and thus he required the ministration of angels.

That is because John the Baptist was his superior in terms of accountability. Just as the kings and priests were subject to Elijah before, Jesus also recognized as a king and a priest his authority was subject to John the Baptist's. This is why it was John the Baptist who performed the ordinances for Jesus.

I don't believe in reincarnation as viewed by the world. But, I do believe the Messiah of the Latter-days will need to find the Jethro-Elijah group and receive his reawakening to the truth, receive his priesthood authority, etc. and to continue counseling with him as he carrys out his duties. I see this pair (acting in union) as manifesting the Eloheim or Father who stands at the head of a new cycle of creation.

I agree there are patterns for this in other religions. But, in the case of the Kalki Avatar, we are a long ways off from the end of Kali Yuga so we are in a smaller cycle that is patterned after the bigger one.

I have never heard of this before.
Do they have information on the internet?

Perhaps you could go into more detail in a separate thread on this. It sounds interesting to investigate.

Thanks for your interesting and civilized reply.

Ok, I will go into details(so many of them) in a separate thread.

For now I will direct you to these scriptures about Falun Dafa:

Zhuan Falun(the main book of Falun Dafa - free to download here):

Download Falun Dafa Falun Gong books and articles: books

Exercises to purify your body etc:

Falun Dafa - Exercise Instruction Video

Local practice sites across the world(it is all free to practice Falun Dafa):

Find a local Falun Gong or Falun Dafa contact person in your area

If you read the book, try the exercises and if you have a predestined connection to Falun Dafa chances are you will never turn around again. Many people experience supernormal events when they come in contact with Falun Dafa.

PS: About the Kalki Avatar an interesting note is that he is supposed to come from the city Shambhala. The first mentioning of Shambhala is in the book "Zhang Zhung". Master Li Hongzhi was born in the city of "Changchun"....

PS 2: Some earlier thread discussing parts of these issues: http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...slam-christian-end-times-prophecy-points.html

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-debates/101419-second-coming-lord-lords-here-now.html

PS 3: There are some incredible legends from Sweden coinciding with the famous Swedish city of Falun(listed as a world heritage) and the introduction of Falun Dafa in this world, I will get into details later.
 

Comicaze247

See the previous line
It's because he was just the average man who took a stand. Not some superhuman deity. The point of him being dead is to carry on his legacy of peace (his original message, not how some have warped it).
 

chinu

chinu
Reason why Jesus has not yet returned.

Because we want "Him" to return in the same manners, same clothes, same conditions as years back "He" appeared in the womb of mother marry,

But there are no mothers like mother marry left in christanity to give birth to such a child as jesus , So its better to find "Him" somewhere else.:)

_/\_
Chinu
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
Because we want "Him" to return in the same manners, same clothes, same conditions as years back "He" appeared in the womb of mother marry,

But there are no mothers like mother marry left in christanity to give birth to such a child as jesus , So its better to find "Him" somewhere else.:)

_/\_
Chinu
God is only born once per creation cycle as the Son. The remaining portions of His lifespan are segmented by the two other advents. Remember, there are 3 personages in the Trinity. Jesus was the Son, but there remains the advents of the Holy Ghost and the Father. Is all they have to do is be a blood descendent of Jesus and the work of the Messiah moves forward.

Why else do you suppose there was so much "to do" to protect the "Holy Grail"?
It is the vital link between the 3 advents of the personages of the Trinity.

Please see my post on that subject here:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2341511-post9.html
 

Gauss

Member
God is only born once per creation cycle as the Son. The remaining portions of His lifespan are segmented by the two other advents. Remember, there are 3 personages in the Trinity. Jesus was the Son, but there remains the advents of the Holy Ghost and the Father. Is all they have to do is be a blood descendent of Jesus and the work of the Messiah moves forward.

Why else do you suppose there was so much "to do" to protect the "Holy Grail"?
It is the vital link between the 3 advents of the personages of the Trinity.

Please see my post on that subject here:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2341511-post9.html

You might be interested in this info on Swedenborg and the trinity:

Emanuel Swedenborg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Swedenborg


At a higher level Taoism has an interesting, rather concrete model of the three Hun and seven Po in every human body:

Taoist Models of Hun and Po, Part Two
 
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