One God or many gods

[URAVIP2ME]

.........................................................................................................................................................................................................
Nor is Lord Satan is the Prodical Son - not veering away from the will of God .. Jesus on the other hand .. "Please take this cup from my hand" .. expressing a desire to go against Gods will .. then later .. after having relented to God's will .. cursing his Father .. maybe not cursing but close .. definite insubordination ... "My God .. My God .. why have you forsaken me" --- expressing that his God has let him down .. Jesus expecting that God would come to the rescue at the last moment and provide a substitute like in the case of Isaac..

The 'cup' was that Jesus did Not want to die labeled as a blasphemer against his God.
People think God put a shield around Jesus, and by Jesus saying 'why have you forsaken me' is showing us that Jesus chose of his own will to die for us without any outside help.

No, Jesus did Not expect his God to prevent his dying. For that matter Jesus could have walked away at any time of his own free will.

Abraham and Isaac were showing their confidence in a physical resurrection.
ALL the resurrections Jesus performed were physical resurrections.
Jesus was giving us a preview, a coming attraction, of what resurrecting Jesus will do on a grand scale during his one-thousand year governmental reign over Earth when 'enemy death ' will be No more on Earth
- 1st Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.................................................................................................................................................................................
But that was the life the ancients had - they were uneducated people with limited knowledge of the world around them
They envisioned an afterlife that was similar to what they had down on earth - not very imaginative of them
What is amazing and astounding to me is to see TODAY'S people - much more educated, knowledgeable and living in totally different societies blindly following these primitive views of God!

How could uneducated people write the harmonious 66 Bible books chock full of cross-reference verses and passages.
This is why Jesus often prefaced his statements with the words, " It is written....." ( already written down in the OT)

The word 'afterlife' means being more alive after death then before death.
The Bible does Not teach 'afterlife' but teaches: resurrection.
A heavenly resurrection for some, the ones who have a first or earlier resurrection - Revelation 20:6; 5:9-10
For the majority of mankind a physical resurrection being restored/resurrected back to live life on Earth. - Acts 24:15
A resurrection on Resurrection Day meaning: Jesus' coming Millennium-Long Day governing over Earth for a thousand years. - John 6:40,44
Humble meek people to inherit the Earth. Earth as promised at Matthew 5:5 from Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Genesis 22​

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The Sacrifice of Isaac
22:1 Some time after these things God tested 1 Abraham. He said to him, “Abraham!” “Here I am!” Abraham 2 replied. 22:2 God 3 said, “Take your son – your only son, whom you love, Isaac 4 – and go to the land of Moriah! 5 Offer him up there as a burnt offering 6 on one of the mountains which I will indicate to 7 you.”
22:3 Early in the morning Abraham got up and saddled his donkey. 8 He took two of his young servants with him, along with his son Isaac. When he had cut the wood for the burnt offering, he started out 9 for the place God had spoken to him about.
22:4 On the third day Abraham caught sight of 10 the place in the distance. 22:5 So he 11 said to his servants, “You two stay 12 here with the donkey while 13 the boy and I go up there. We will worship 14 and then return to you.” 15
22:6 Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and put it on his son Isaac. Then he took the fire and the knife in his hand, 16 and the two of them walked on together. 22:7 Isaac said to his father Abraham, 17 “My father?” “What is it, 18 my son?” he replied. “Here is the fire and the wood,” Isaac said, 19 “but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?” 22:8 “God will provide 20 for himself the lamb for the burnt offering, my son,” Abraham replied. The two of them continued on together.
22:9 When they came to the place God had told him about, Abraham built the altar there 21 and arranged the wood on it. Next he tied up 22
There is clearly child sacrifice.

Why did you stop posting because as we can read God did Not permit Abraham and Isaac to continue. Gen. 22:12
On the other hands, the rebellious people did feed their burning sacrificed children to gods like Molech.
- see Jeremiah 32:35; Ezekiel 23:37; 2nd Chronicles 28:3

 

[Sargonski]

The 'cup' was that Jesus did Not want to die labeled as a blasphemer against his God.
People think God put a shield around Jesus, and by Jesus saying 'why have you forsaken me' is showing us that Jesus chose of his own will to die for us without any outside help.

No, Jesus did Not expect his God to prevent his dying. For that matter Jesus could have walked away at any time of his own free will.

Abraham and Isaac were showing their confidence in a physical resurrection.
ALL the resurrections Jesus performed were physical resurrections.
Jesus was giving us a preview, a coming attraction, of what resurrecting Jesus will do on a grand scale during his one-thousand year governmental reign over Earth when 'enemy death ' will be No more on Earth
- 1st Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8

Why are you deflecting from the fact that Ha Satan is not a rebellious Son of God - and that like the tester of souls .. Jesus is also a tester of souls. then waxed into a blasphemous tirade .. putting words into the mouth of Jesus and of his God. Jesus did not blaspheme his God .. and going against the will of his God would not be blasphemy in any case .. so this is some kind of fallacious nonsense speak ..

Jesus forsaking his God is not choosing his own will to die without - outside help. This is an absurdity and makes no sense. Look ... you are way over-complicating things combined with making stuff up that isn't there .. this likely a result of trying to fit some man made dogma into the Bible passage .. trying to make the passage fit into some man made dogma that doesn't even apply here.

In any case the main thing to get out of the forsaken cup scene is that the Trinity is a load ... clearly Jesus is not God-The Father .. having a completely separate will --- so even if Jesus is a God ... it is not the same God as The Father .. something you have acknowledged already though .. in acknowledging that our good friend Sataniel is the Chief God on earth at the moment .. YHWH having been punted from that thrown by Marduk

No idea why you are introducting the Physical Resurrection as a topic -- random quotes from Isaiah which have absolutely no relationship this rabbit hole should one wander down it ? which I shall do to humor you .. to say there is no Physical Resurrection of Jesus in the original Story .. sorry my friend .. carefull not to confuse interpolation of the deceiver for Holy Scripture ..

 

[River Sea]

There is clearly child sacrifice.

The Sacrifice of Isaac

If Isaac survived, how did he love his father Abraham afterwards? Or does faith allow this and cause Isaac to continue to love his father, Abraham? If faith allows this, what is 'faith love' compared to 'doubting'? Do some religions think that it's Ishmael who was about to be sacrificed, because Ishmael was the firstborn son of Abraham, and it's the firstborn son who's to be sacrificed, yet an animal was sacrificed instead? About the one God who spoke to Abraham, how did Abraham hear the one God who told him to sacrifice? Did Abraham at all question the voice of this one God? What is the importance of the firstborn that the second born doesn't have that the second born escapes fear of being sacrificed? Is it a curse to be a firstborn, and how is that important? Is fearing to be sacrificed helping them to what?

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Why did you stop posting because as we can read God did Not permit Abraham and Isaac to continue. Gen. 22:12
On the other hands, the rebellious people did feed their burning sacrificed children to gods like Molech.
- see Jeremiah 32:35; Ezekiel 23:37; 2nd Chronicles 28:3

The point is not whether god permitted or not. The point is that it shows prevalence of the practice.
Secondly, why did the jews not exterminate other child sacrificers?
We cannot put up spurious arguments for the simple political unjustified attack on Canaan.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The point is not whether god permitted or not. The point is that it shows prevalence of the practice.
Secondly, why did the jews not exterminate other child sacrificers?
We cannot put up spurious arguments for the simple political unjustified attack on Canaan.

I don't think there has been any Jewish sacrifice of a child for many thousands of years. Judaism teaches that this practice is an abomination. I'm not sure where you are coming from on this.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I don't think there has been any Jewish sacrifice of a child for many thousands of years. Judaism teaches that this practice is an abomination. I'm not sure where you are coming from on this.

Yes, the Jews were Not to sacrifice children as we can comprehend at Jeremiah 32:35 B; Ezekiel 23:37; 2nd Chronicles 28:3
Besides Isaac was Not minor child at the time at Genesis 22:5 B -12.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The point is not whether god permitted or not. The point is that it shows prevalence of the practice.
Secondly, why did the jews not exterminate other child sacrificers?
We cannot put up spurious arguments for the simple political unjustified attack on Canaan.

The Canaanites were given time to repent. Stop what they were doing.
To stop child burning is Not un-justified.
The nation of Israel was only one nation and not to conquer all or any other nations.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If Isaac survived, how did he love his father Abraham afterwards? Or does faith allow this and cause Isaac to continue to love his father, Abraham? If faith allows this, what is 'faith love' compared to 'doubting'? Do some religions think that it's Ishmael who was about to be sacrificed, because Ishmael was the firstborn son of Abraham, and it's the firstborn son who's to be sacrificed, yet an animal was sacrificed instead? About the one God who spoke to Abraham, how did Abraham hear the one God who told him to sacrifice? Did Abraham at all question the voice of this one God? What is the importance of the firstborn that the second born doesn't have that the second born escapes fear of being sacrificed? Is it a curse to be a firstborn, and how is that important? Is fearing to be sacrificed helping them to what?

The fire was never lit that is how Isaac survived besides Abraham and Isaac were showing their confidence in a physical resurrection because by means of Isaac all nations would be blessed - Genesis 22:18; Galatians 3:8
In other words, Isaac would have to be alive in order to marry and have children.

Yes, Abraham did question God's voice according to Genesis 18:20 - 32

God's promise was Not to Hagar, but promised to Sarah according to Genesis 17:15-16; Genesis 21:12 B

 

[muhammad_isa]

God's promise was Not to Hagar, but promised to Sarah according to Genesis 17:15-16; Genesis 21:12 B

G-d's promise is to the Righteous .. He makes no promise to the wicked.

..so, any Christian who espouses a philosophy of a "chosen people" should know better.
Jesus did not teach that in the Gospel.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why are you deflecting from the fact that Ha Satan is not a rebellious Son of God - and that like the tester of souls .. Jesus is also a tester of souls. then waxed into a blasphemous tirade .. putting words into the mouth of Jesus and of his God. Jesus did not blaspheme his God .. and going against the will of his God would not be blasphemy in any case .. so this is some kind of fallacious nonsense speak ..

Jesus forsaking his God is not choosing his own will to die without - outside help. This is an absurdity and makes no sense. Look ... you are way over-complicating things combined with making stuff up that isn't there .. this likely a result of trying to fit some man made dogma into the Bible passage .. trying to make the passage fit into some man made dogma that doesn't even apply here.

In any case the main thing to get out of the forsaken cup scene is that the Trinity is a load ... clearly Jesus is not God-The Father .. having a completely separate will --- so even if Jesus is a God ... it is not the same God as The Father .. something you have acknowledged already though .. in acknowledging that our good friend Sataniel is the Chief God on earth at the moment .. YHWH having been punted from that thrown by Marduk

No idea why you are introducting the Physical Resurrection as a topic -- random quotes from Isaiah which have absolutely no relationship this rabbit hole should one wander down it ? which I shall do to humor you .. to say there is no Physical Resurrection of Jesus in the original Story .. sorry my friend .. carefull not to confuse interpolation of the deceiver for Holy Scripture ..

Yes, there was No physical resurrection for Jesus because God had sent pre-human heavenly Jesus to Earth for us.
A physical body does Not appear in closed rooms as the resurrected Jesus did - John 20:19; John 20:26
Even at the cemetery the resurrected Jesus was Not recognized because Jesus was using a materialized body to appear then and later to his followers before he ascended disappearing to Heaven - Acts 1:9
Why didn't his followers recognize the resurrected Jesus if he was in his physical body - Luke 24:13-33

Yes, Jesus clearly is Not God. God resurrected dead Jesus - Acts 3:15
God can Not die - Titus 1:2 - and Jesus did die.
God's spirit (Psalm 104:35) is His powerful spirit that He uses and Not a person.
Like our spirit "it" (Ecclesiastes 12:7 B), God's spirit is also a genderless neutral "it" - Numbers 11:17,25, Not a person.

Yes, 'at the moment' Satan is the 'god' of this world of badness - 2nd Corinthians 4:4
A reason why is found at Revelation 12:9, and why to be on guard watchful according to 1st Peter 5:8

 

[URAVIP2ME]

G-d's promise is to the Righteous .. He makes no promise to the wicked.
..so, any Christian who espouses a philosophy of a "chosen people" should know better.
Jesus did not teach that in the Gospel.

Besides God's promise to the righteous so also to the un-righteous ( see Acts 24:15 ) KJV 'just and unjust'.
There will be a resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous. ( just and unjust )
The righteous can choose to remain righteous, and the unrighteous can choose to become righteous/ just.
No future for the wicked (Jeremiah 51:39,57) because the wicked are 'destroyed forever' - Psalms 92:7; 104:35; 145:20
As King of God's Kingdom Jesus 'chooses' who are the humble sheep or haughty goats - Matthew 25:31-34,37

 

[muhammad_isa]

Besides God's promise to the righteous so also to the un-righteous ( see Acts 24:15 ) KJV 'just and unjust'..

You said "G-d's promise was to Hagar",
..implying that the seed of Isaac are chosen over Ismael .. or even worse, that Ismael's
seed is cursed.

That is not what Jesus taught .. it is a philosophy of men.
Each nation will be judged according to its deeds and intentions .. and not their race/tribe.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You said "G-d's promise was to Hagar",
..implying that the seed of Isaac are chosen over Ismael .. or even worse, that Ismael's
seed is cursed.
That is not what Jesus taught .. it is a philosophy of men.
Each nation will be judged according to its deeds and intentions .. and not their race/tribe.

Wrong, ( see post #190) God's promise was Not to Hagar but to Sarah - Genesis 17:15-16; Genesis 21:21
Not meaning Ismael's seed was cursed but that Messiah's line would come through Sarah.
Please notice the word 'nation' at Genesis 21:17-18 the promise to Ishmael. - 1st Chronicles 1:29-31

Yes, each nation to hear about the good news of God's kingdom as Jesus said at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8
Jesus as Judge (aka King of God's Kingdom) according to deeds ( literal/material and spiritual - Matt. 25:40 )

 

[muhammad_isa]

Wrong, ( see post #190) God's promise was Not to Hagar but to Sarah - Genesis 17:15-16; Genesis 21:21

Just repeating the same words is not meaningful..

Not meaning Ismael's seed was cursed but that Messiah's line would come through Sarah..

That is not the context of your previous reply to "Do some religions think that it's Ishmael who was about to be sacrificed.."

Clearly, there is an issue here .. and that is your answer i.e. G-d chose one over the other

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Yes, the Jews were Not to sacrifice children as we can comprehend at Jeremiah 32:35 B; Ezekiel 23:37; 2nd Chronicles 28:3
Besides Isaac was Not minor child at the time at Genesis 22:5 B -12.

All this is an apology. The fact is that child sacrifice is attested in the Jewish tradition. That cannot be the reason for attacking Canaan. There was so much wrong in those days from present perspective... Slavery, womens rights, religious freedom, and so on. Why pick the canaanites? Only crass politics of conquest.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

You said "G-d's promise was to Hagar",
..implying that the seed of Isaac are chosen over Ismael .. or even worse, that Ismael's
seed is cursed.

That is not what Jesus taught .. it is a philosophy of men.
Each nation will be judged according to its deeds and intentions .. and not their race/tribe.

Islam has made a great advance by making all humans equal before God.

 

[Sargonski]

Yes, there was No physical resurrection for Jesus because God had sent pre-human heavenly Jesus to Earth for us.
A physical body does Not appear in closed rooms as the resurrected Jesus did - John 20:19; John 20:26
Even at the cemetery the resurrected Jesus was Not recognized because Jesus was using a materialized body to appear then and later to his followers before he ascended disappearing to Heaven - Acts 1:9
Why didn't his followers recognize the resurrected Jesus if he was in his physical body - Luke 24:13-33

Yes, Jesus clearly is Not God. God resurrected dead Jesus - Acts 3:15
God can Not die - Titus 1:2 - and Jesus did die.
God's spirit (Psalm 104:35) is His powerful spirit that He uses and Not a person.
Like our spirit "it" (Ecclesiastes 12:7 B), God's spirit is also a genderless neutral "it" - Numbers 11:17,25, Not a person.

Yes, 'at the moment' Satan is the 'god' of this world of badness - 2nd Corinthians 4:4
A reason why is found at Revelation 12:9, and why to be on guard watchful according to 1st Peter 5:8

Interesting .. too much reliance on Perspective IMO .. but not to nit pick --I am on board with the idea that Jesus .. after receiving the divine spark .. after adoption by God .. completes his mission .. and upon resurrection - has his God Status increased .. though not to the level of the Supreme one . of course.

The Chief God over the earth -- if it is Ha Satan as we are led to believe during the Testing of Jesus.. is not the same Devil in Revelations .. this is a confused interpretation IMO --

So .. Jesus is a priest of the order Melchi-Zedek -- Zedek twin God of Justice and Righteousness Seated at the right hand of The Father .. as makes complete sense .. at the "Council of EL" -- "Assembly of EL" --- discussed in Psalm 82. Zedek is the Patron God of Jerusalem .. when Abraham comes to town .. and he and the "Priest of the Most High God" break bread and drink wine .. give reverence to the Canaanite High God EL .. and .. same high God over in Ur .. and well .. everywhere else in the hear east .. even think there is a similar in the Egyptian Pantheon but thats the only one not sure of.

Everyone . throughout the entire history of Abe through the End of the Israelites ~720 BC .. believes EL is the High God in Heaven ..

YHWH is a son of EL .. just like our friend Ha Satan .. and 68 other son's of EL .. battle it out for the crown of Chief God of the Earth. .. this is the whole story from Moses to the end of the Israelites. ---- and YHWH does very well .. wins many battles .. to the Iraelites .. achieves the title Chief god over the earth .. for a period of time...

Jesus does not follow the priesthood of Aaron .. or the Levites .. no Priesthood of YHWH for Jesus .. nor does he follow the commands of YHWH nor the God named Jealous .. a different set of commands .. a nasty demiurge somewhere in the mix ..

Deut 32:8 .. LXX version the version adopted by the New English Translation Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 32 - New English Translation

When the Most High[l] gave the nations their inheritance,
when he divided up humankind,[m] he set the boundaries of the peoples,
according to the number of the heavenly assembly.[n]
9 For YHWH's allotment is his people, Jacob is his special possession.

So .. the Most High in this scene is EL -- EL Elyon -- God Most High .. as told you he diides up the nations among the sons of God .. of which YHWH is one .. his people Israel .... and as we discover .. YHWH is a naughty son indeed.

So you have the "Tester of Souls" .. wrong .. this God is not an adversary to EL .. he is however an adversary of YHWH .. as he would have to be .. battling for the Seat as Cheif God on Earth ..

That Devil in the Dream of some fellow we do not know .. wrongly attributed the Demiurge in his dream .. or rather .. Christians have wrongly attributed the demiurge in his dream to our poor Tester of Souls. .. did nothing but follow the Supreme one's orders to the letter.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

That is not the context of your previous reply to "Do some religions think that it's Ishmael who was about to be sacrificed.."
Clearly, there is an issue here .. and that is your answer i.e. G-d chose one over the other

Yes, God chose Isaac as the one over the other according to God's promise to Sarah at Genesis 21:12 named Isaac.
The 'seed' was Isaac according to Genesis 17:15-16, 19 ; Genesis 22:16 Abraham's only seed with Sarah.
No, it was Not Ishmael who was about to sacrificed - Genesis 22:5 - the lad was Genesis 22:7-12 Isaac.