Once saved - always saved?

[questfortruth]

"I know where I came from and where I am going" (Jesus Christ).
It is very comforting to know at least one appointed future event.
The Protestants think, that they will be in Heaven, not hell.
But it is not knowledge, because they are debating about the concept "once saved -- always saved"; hence, they have none of the appointed events. But Jesus was having them. That is why He was so confident and powerful.

 

[Sheldon]

I like Stilton cheese.

 

[Lain]

"I know where I came from and where I am going" (Jesus Christ).
It is very comforting to know at least one appointed future event.
The Protestants think, that they will be in Heaven, not hell.
But it is not knowledge, because they are debating about the concept "once saved -- always saved"; hence, they have none of the appointed events. But Jesus was having them. That is why He was so confident and powerful.

Being justified or having initial justification does not guarantee final perseverance to me, so I would disagree with the formula. Perhaps "once Elect always Elect" is better, for those who are the Elect can not fail to be saved. This considers God's perspective.

In my opinion at least. Lots more studying needs to be done on my part.

 

[ChristineM]

I like Stilton cheese.

I can't get Stilton here but Roquefort is comparable.

 

[F1fan]

I think selling permanent salvation is a bad product. It might appeal to the masses, as if you can eat all the cookies you want and never gain weight. This approach allows a believer to be immoral and justify it is any way they see fit because their *** is already covered.

Again, good people are good theists. Bad people are bad theists. But religion doesn't make bad people good. The bad will exploit any loophole in the rules, or even push them beyond the limits.

If evangelicals had to earn their grace at every moment perhaps they would try harder to be better people, like not voting for trump, or many current unethical republicans.

 

[Warborg]

I had a dream once that I saw everyone through God's eyes but to avoid a long confusing dream, my out take was He can see us as easy as reading TOM. T is our birth, O is our life, M is our death. He sees it all at once. Or an easier example is reading the last page of a murder mystery book. You know the outcome/end no matter what happens in the middle.

I believe that once saved always saved but those who were not saved in the end were never saved to begin with...it just may have appeared that way.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"I know where I came from and where I am going" (Jesus Christ).

What is so special about that? I too know precisely where I came from and where I will go.

 

[questfortruth]

What is so special about that? I too know precisely where I came from and where I will go.

Jesus was sure, He will be in Heaven, not hell. Are you 100% sure? The Judas the Traitor was 100% sure of Heaven.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Heaven and hell are just human imagination. I am 100% sure that if I am cremated*, then the water in my body and the carbon-DI-oxide created by the burning of muscles will disperse in the environment, trees will breathe it. The bones will turn into Calcium Carbonate (lime) and will mix with the soil wherever the the ashes are disposed.

* I have donated my body for medical research. But there is a catch there. If anyone from my family disagrees with my last wish, the current Indian law makes it necessary that the dead body be handed over to relatives.

 

[YoursTrue]

"I know where I came from and where I am going" (Jesus Christ).
It is very comforting to know at least one appointed future event.
The Protestants think, that they will be in Heaven, not hell.
But it is not knowledge, because they are debating about the concept "once saved -- always saved"; hence, they have none of the appointed events. But Jesus was having them. That is why He was so confident and powerful.

Jesus knew who he was and where he came from because he was given the knowledge from God. His disciples had to follow him. Not themselves.

 

[YoursTrue]

Heaven and hell are just human imagination. I am 100% sure that if I am cremated*, then the water in my body and the carbon-DI-oxide created by the burning of muscles will disperse in the environment, trees will breathe it. The bones will turn into Calcium Carbonate (lime) and will mix with the soil wherever the the ashes are disposed.

* I have donated my body for medical research. But there is a catch there. If anyone from my family disagrees with my last wish, the current Indian law makes it necessary that the dead body be handed over to relatives.

Agreed that the body disintegrates after death. And yes, when cremated it turns to ashes. Interestingly, when I worked for a cemetery for a while they had to move a coffin from one place to another. The caretaker told me to watch out because the breeze could carry the smell of the decomposed body behind. And it was not a pleasant odor.

 

[YoursTrue]

Heaven and hell are just human imagination. I am 100% sure that if I am cremated*, then the water in my body and the carbon-DI-oxide created by the burning of muscles will disperse in the environment, trees will breathe it. The bones will turn into Calcium Carbonate (lime) and will mix with the soil wherever the the ashes are disposed.

* I have donated my body for medical research. But there is a catch there. If anyone from my family disagrees with my last wish, the current Indian law makes it necessary that the dead body be handed over to relatives.

P.S. I don't want to be a tree. I kind of like being a human being. Of course I have no choice in the matter and God made it so that I didn't have a choice. That's my belief, I'm sure other people have different beliefs. But I find no real comfort in thinking I'll be molecules in a tree or the ground.

 

[Aupmanyav]

P.S. I don't want to be a tree. I kind of like being a human being. Of course I have no choice in the matter and God made it so that I didn't have a choice. .. But I find no real comfort in thinking I'll be molecules in a tree or the ground.

"Thus, the body consists of about 2×10 raised to power 25 molecules, and more than 99 % of them are water!"
How many molecules are in the human body? | Socratic

You may like being a human, but you would never be that again. The chance meeting of the molecules will never happen again. You don't have a choice even now. Better adjust with the idea rather than resent it. You cannot control where the molecules of your body will go; to a tree, to a lion or to a cockroach. They could go even to the body of Miss universe of that time.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The caretaker told me to watch out because the breeze could carry the smell of the decomposed body behind.

That is the reason Hindus prefer quick cremation after death, if possible the same day. We do not need embalming or a casket.

 

[Shadow11]

Well considering the body is constantly refreshing its water its irrelevant it changes over a life time. Are you the water ? If you cut off an arm did you cut off a piece of your soul? No. Cells are constantly dying and being replaced - you shed the material and replace it with new material but your not different.

 

[pearl]

I think for those who consider themselves 'saved' it is conditioned on their faithfully following Jesus' teaching as found in Scripture. In that respect they will answer, 'yes, I am saved.' But there are others who arrogantly profess 'I am saved' and if judged by their politics there is the appearance of hypocrisy.

 

[Shadow11]

Some believe that the simple alter pray is all that is required regardless of how they live their lifes - its a cover all for eternity.

 

[Sheldon]

I believe that once saved always saved but those who were not saved in the end were never saved to begin with...it just may have appeared that way.

Well it's good to know my atheism hasn't made any difference.

 

[metis]

The "once saved always saved" concept is simply denied by the NT itself, such as with the Parable of the Seed & Sower and the Parable of the Mustard Seed and also Paul's statement to try and convince fallen away brethren to return to the fold.

All indications are that we retain or free will until our death or why would the Apostles be "preaching to the choir"?

 

[1213]

Once saved - always saved?

I think it is not a Biblical belief, or it is not accurate enough. Sin can be forgiven and when sin is forgiven, it remains forgiven and so person is saved from the judgment that would come because of sin. But, if person does new sin, the old forgiveness is not useful anymore. In that case person would need new forgiveness. And I believe it is possible to have sins many times forgiven, but it does not mean it is then ok to sin, licence to sin, as many Christians seem to think.