Observation on Speaking in Tongues (Pentecostalism)

[Nakosis]

Posting here because, for some reason, I can't post in any DIRs.

I spent time with a Pentecostal denomination but didn't convert to it. One thing I walked away with was the impression that, regardless of their scriptural arguments for speaking in tongues (which are adequate), the practice is fake.

Speaking in tongues, as they practice it, is supposed to be speaking in the language of angels. However, there is no grammatical structure. Most of the words are collections of random syllables. The one time I did feel compelled to speak in tongues, I stopped just short of it, as I realized that the words in my head were just random Middle Eastern city names and words I knew. The pastor who was always (like, once a month) running off to Africa on missions happened to have very African-sounding words (but still not actual African). The girl who was studying French had French-sounding words.

The Pentecostal justification for it is that the words do change to suit you individually. Then that's not a language of angels. It's obvious bull****, teased out of people through showy services that are meant to excite and pressure the audience.

Speaking in tongues is an interesting experience. Speaking, kind of sentences, gibberish, hearing this come out of yourself without any conscious thought or control behind it. Because there is no conscious control, I can see where folks would feel this as supernaturally inspired.

It's, IMO, something the mind can do. Letting the subconscious assume control of speaking. You're not in control of it, it must come from somewhere right?

Consciousness has a very limited awareness of what happening with the Central Nervous System. The subconscious mind is faster and much larger really much more aware then our conscious awareness. It has a lot more physical control of the body than the consciousness. It's just we are completely unaware of it, so it seems like the conscious mind is in charge.

We identify ourselves as the physical body. This is who we see ourselves to be. I think the reality though is our conscious self is more like a pimple riding around on the butt of the physical body.

 

[David1967]

Hello Ken. Thank you for addressing my post. I welcome your input.

Yet in Act 16, it speaks of a woman who had the ability to divine (authored by Satan)

Agree.

like the word of knowledge and the word of wisdom (authored by the Holy Spirit

Don't know much about that except what I have seen televangelists do on the 700 club. Looks a bit like fortune telling to me. If you are referring to something different, such as a biblical reference, please share.

I don't think that just because a Tibetan shaman spoke in tongues means that it doesn't exist...

I agree. My questioning is more of whether what is seen in the modern tongues movement of the last 100 years or so resembles what scripture describes, or is it the "clanging brass" that Paul warned against?

The question would more likely be, which ones are God's and which ones are not.

I agree with you 100% here. Scripture does say to "test the spirits."

It would also be wrong to call it the "fringe of Christianity" since 1 in 4 identify themselves as part of the glossa.

I agree partially. In modern times it has become common, but it (the modern version) did start out as a fringe movement within protestant Christianity.
Respectfully.

 

[eldios]

Posting here because, for some reason, I can't post in any DIRs.

I spent time with a Pentecostal denomination but didn't convert to it. One thing I walked away with was the impression that, regardless of their scriptural arguments for speaking in tongues (which are adequate), the practice is fake.

Speaking in tongues, as they practice it, is supposed to be speaking in the language of angels. However, there is no grammatical structure. Most of the words are collections of random syllables. The one time I did feel compelled to speak in tongues, I stopped just short of it, as I realized that the words in my head were just random Middle Eastern city names and words I knew. The pastor who was always (like, once a month) running off to Africa on missions happened to have very African-sounding words (but still not actual African). The girl who was studying French had French-sounding words.

The Pentecostal justification for it is that the words do change to suit you individually. Then that's not a language of angels. It's obvious bull****, teased out of people through showy services that are meant to excite and pressure the audience.

It's a form of hypnotism that causes cult members to "babble". Those of us servants who hear the voice of God speaking directly into our mind know that God uses our vocabulary words we learn from the time we're birthed in the world of Satan. There is a lot of knowledge that needs to be understand about how we're created, what the beast is, what will happen on the day of the Lord and how we'll experience life in the next generation. Babbling doesn't contain any knowledge of Christ at all and it certainly isn't necessary for God to speak to his chosen believers through His trusted servants who if you listen to, can speak the language that you learned since childhood.

God has been using the servant typing this sentence to connect with his chosen believers who can read these words or listen to his servants speak the words formed in his mind from the mind of Christ.

 

[Kenny]

Hello Ken. Thank you for addressing my post. I welcome your input.

Thanks!!

Don't know much about that except what I have seen televangelists do on the 700 club. Looks a bit like fortune telling to me. If you are referring to something different, such as a biblical reference, please share.

As in Acts 16, there is much that imitates what is real so I can understand why it would look like fortune telling.

Biblically speaking, word of knowledge is when one has a revelation of something present or past that was given by the Holy Spirit.

1. Examples would be when Peter knew that Ananias and Sapphire lied on the amount they sold the land for.
2. Jesus when he mentioned that he saw Nathanael under the fig tree not having seen him with his eyes.
3. Or when Peter and Cornelius both received information about their coming encounter. (Cornelius as to who and where and Peter when he was told "behold the men are hear"
4. There are many more, of course.

Word of wisdom is when God gives a person a download of something that will happen in the future (so to speak)

1. The prophet who said that there would be a dearth in Jerusalem (NT)
2. The prophet who took the belt of Paul and said he was going to be imprisoned
3. Jesus telling Peter to go and fish for the paying of taxes.
   There are many more of course.

I agree. My questioning is more of whether what is seen in the modern tongues movement of the last 100 years or so resembles what scripture describes, or is it the "clanging brass" that Paul warned against?

LOL - I can certainly understand why one could call it clanging brass. Perhaps some are (who knows?) It would appear that even Paul had to correct much of it in the Corinthian church.

Certainly scripture is used in OT and NT.

But usually the fruit is a help (but as I said, the Corinthian Church exercised the gift but had some fruit that were rotten). As mentioned in another post of mine, many denominations such as Church of God (many varieties), Assemblies of God, Foursquare Church, and many more were started because of it. (I speak, of course, as one who participates in speaking of tongues).

I agree with you 100% here. Scripture does say to "test the spirits."

You can't go wrong on that one. Certainly speaking in tongues is not a requirement for being a Christ follower or for being used by Him. One is not less than the other if one doesn't and not more than the other if one does.

I agree partially. In modern times it has become common, but it (the modern version) did start out as a fringe movement within protestant Christianity.
Respectfully.

Thank you for speaking respectfully. It encourages dialogue.

But if you think about it, the following all started as a fringe" and now is the norm:

1. Being saved by grace through faith (thanks to Martin Luther)
2. That you are the righteousness of God (people who said that used to be called heretics)
3. That God DOES want to do miracles. There was a time when they said miracles had passed away as well as God gave sickness to teach you something. Both are hardly subscribed to today but were accepted by the "fringe" at the beginning.

 

[David1967]

Thanks!!


As in Acts 16, there is much that imitates what is real so I can understand why it would look like fortune telling.

Biblically speaking, word of knowledge is when one has a revelation of something present or past that was given by the Holy Spirit.

1. Examples would be when Peter knew that Ananias and Sapphire lied on the amount they sold the land for.
2. Jesus when he mentioned that he saw Nathanael under the fig tree not having seen him with his eyes.
3. Or when Peter and Cornelius both received information about their coming encounter. (Cornelius as to who and where and Peter when he was told "behold the men are hear"
4. There are many more, of course.

Word of wisdom is when God gives a person a download of something that will happen in the future (so to speak)

1. The prophet who said that there would be a dearth in Jerusalem (NT)
2. The prophet who took the belt of Paul and said he was going to be imprisoned
3. Jesus telling Peter to go and fish for the paying of taxes.
   There are many more of course.

LOL - I can certainly understand why one could call it clanging brass. Perhaps some are (who knows?) It would appear that even Paul had to correct much of it in the Corinthian church.

Certainly scripture is used in OT and NT.

But usually the fruit is a help (but as I said, the Corinthian Church exercised the gift but had some fruit that were rotten). As mentioned in another post of mine, many denominations such as Church of God (many varieties), Assemblies of God, Foursquare Church, and many more were started because of it. (I speak, of course, as one who participates in speaking of tongues).


You can't go wrong on that one. Certainly speaking in tongues is not a requirement for being a Christ follower or for being used by Him. One is not less than the other if one doesn't and not more than the other if one does.


Thank you for speaking respectfully. It encourages dialogue.

But if you think about it, the following all started as a fringe" and now is the norm:

1. Being saved by grace through faith (thanks to Martin Luther)
2. That you are the righteousness of God (people who said that used to be called heretics)
3. That God DOES want to do miracles. There was a time when they said miracles had passed away as well as God gave sickness to teach you something. Both are hardly subscribed to today but were accepted by the "fringe" at the beginning.

Thank you Ken for sharing your views on this subject. Much appreciated. BTW. My wife is a tongue talking Pentecostal so you can imagine the discussions we have.

 

[Kenny]

Thank you Ken for sharing your views on this subject. Much appreciated. BTW. My wife is a tongue talking Pentecostal so you can imagine the discussions we have.

LOL... God does seem to have a sense of humor!

 

[David1967]

LOL... God does seem to have a sense of humor!

No doubt. And we get along great.

 

[Kenny]

No doubt. And we get along great.

Love never fails!!!