Observation on Speaking in Tongues (Pentecostalism)

[Confucian Mormon Buddhist]

Posting here because, for some reason, I can't post in any DIRs.

I spent time with a Pentecostal denomination but didn't convert to it. One thing I walked away with was the impression that, regardless of their scriptural arguments for speaking in tongues (which are adequate), the practice is fake.

Speaking in tongues, as they practice it, is supposed to be speaking in the language of angels. However, there is no grammatical structure. Most of the words are collections of random syllables. The one time I did feel compelled to speak in tongues, I stopped just short of it, as I realized that the words in my head were just random Middle Eastern city names and words I knew. The pastor who was always (like, once a month) running off to Africa on missions happened to have very African-sounding words (but still not actual African). The girl who was studying French had French-sounding words.

The Pentecostal justification for it is that the words do change to suit you individually. Then that's not a language of angels. It's obvious bull****, teased out of people through showy services that are meant to excite and pressure the audience.

 

[George-ananda]

What do they believe is the 'good' that comes from speaking in tongues anyway? What is the point?

 

[Confucian Mormon Buddhist]

What do they believe is the 'good' that comes from speaking in tongues anyway? What is the point?

I think a combination of bonding with God and possibly receiving revelation from him?

The church I was in would do it regularly and on the orders of the pastor. In fact, I never saw anybody spontaneously speak in tongues, except for one guy who was evicted (the way he was doing it was very disruptive; almost frightening). These were Pentecostals who carried themselves like Lutherans. But yeah, they seemed to use it like a form of meditation, relaxing themselves and opening up to the Holy Spirit.

Which is completely fine, but their rhetoric tries to make it into something greater than it is.

 

[George-ananda]

I think a combination of bonding with God and possibly receiving revelation from him?

What is a revelation no one understands? What is being revealed then?

 

[Confucian Mormon Buddhist]

What is a revelation no one understands? What is being revealed then?

The words are gibberish but they translate them to understand the meaning. Some Pentecostal churches are more dogmatic and insist that you have to be an "interpreter" to translate.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I get a hoot over the tongues bull****.

I remember uttering tongues and getting two different interpretations.

Another time I faked it and got an interpretation anyways.

I suppose it makes people feel good about it, but it's completely playing pretend.

 

[Shiranui117]

What do they believe is the 'good' that comes from speaking in tongues anyway? What is the point?

I've been told it's evidence that you're being touched by the Holy Spirit. If you don't speak in tongues, the Holy Spirit hasn't come upon you, therefore you're not really saved yet.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

What do they believe is the 'good' that comes from speaking in tongues anyway? What is the point?

Supposedly it is God/angels placing "prayer" into your mind/mouth for things that you wouldn't otherwise know need prayer/help. They call it intercessory prayer - or prayer made on your behalf by an "intercessor" - one who intercedes.

I remember sitting in many services where the pastor, or others, would close their eyes, get this solemn look on their faces and then start blubbering: "Shala habbaba shalem hala bebba shutalabehala...", or, in other words, a bunch of utter nonsense. It was so funny and so not funny all at once.

It is nothing more than proof that there can be found an excuse for literally any strange/aberrant behaviors practiced by these religious groups.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I've been told it's evidence that you're being touched by the Holy Spirit. If you don't speak in tongues, the Holy Spirit hasn't come upon you, therefore you're not really saved yet.

There are some people who say that, usually Pentecostals. I think in the wider charismatic movement that is not the case, however it is taken as given that tongues is a spiritual gift available to any believer.

In addition there are some who would not consider gibberish to be genuine tongues. There can be cynicism. People are always changing, and churches are always changing. I think the practice of speaking in tongues is spreading into southern baptist churches and also some Roman Catholic churches. I've seen it in Methodist, Episcopalian and Lutheran churches. It is not spreading into non-trinitarian churches as there's more of a separation between the trinitarians and the non-trinitarians.

Despite its spread I think its not as big a deal as it was in the 80's. So its more widespread but neither as controversial nor as influential now. As its usefulness for creating controversy decreases, so will its value to ministers I think. Then perhaps it will become more plain whether there is a real supernatural form of tongue going around or not. At the moment you'd never know it if there was.

 

[George-ananda]

The words are gibberish but they translate them to understand the meaning. Some Pentecostal churches are more dogmatic and insist that you have to be an "interpreter" to translate.

Thanks, but now I'm curious. Can you give me just an idea of the kind of things, topics and subjects being revealed?

 

[George-ananda]

I've been told it's evidence that you're being touched by the Holy Spirit. If you don't speak in tongues, the Holy Spirit hasn't come upon you, therefore you're not really saved yet.

OK, I can understand that, BUT why do they think the Holy Spirit would give them a non-useful experience?

I think when I was a kid, I was told that speaking in tongues meant you could preach the Gospel in one language but the listener would hear it in their own native language. Now that ability would rock.

 

[George-ananda]

Supposedly it is God/angels placing "prayer" into your mind/mouth for things that you wouldn't otherwise know need prayer/help. They call it intercessory prayer - or prayer made on your behalf by an "intercessor" - one who intercedes.

OK. thanks. So, do they believe they are getting a message that they can intelligibly understand? If so, what would be an example of this.

 

[Callisto]

I get a hoot over the tongues bull****.

I remember uttering tongues and getting two different interpretations.

Another time I faked it and got an interpretation anyways.

I suppose it makes people feel good about it, but it's completely playing pretend.

 

[crossfire]

Zen would call this Makyo. 1 Corinthians 12 describes Makyo, while the following chapter, 1 Corinthians 13 describes something a bit closer to Kensho.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Haha haha. ...

Luv it. *grin*

 

[Twilight Hue]

Zen would call this Makyo. 1 Corinthians 12 describes Makyo, while the following chapter, 1 Corinthians 13 describes something a bit closer to Kensho.

I don't quite see how mayko applies unless you think there's a meditative component involved that would give rise to the phenomena.

 

[crossfire]

I don't quite see how mayko applies unless you think there's a meditative component involved that would give rise to the phenomena.

Say 108 "Our Fathers" and 72 "Hail Marys." (Or whatever the Pentecostal version of this is.)

Edit to add: contemplating/meditating on the Trinity is the Christian koan, no?

 

[crossfire]

I don't quite see how mayko applies unless you think there's a meditative component involved that would give rise to the phenomena.

Ok, how does "screaming monkey" sound to you? Better description? What would cultivating screaming monkey be then?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Say 108 "Our Fathers" and 72 "Hail Marys." (Or whatever the Pentecostal version of this is.)

Edit to add: contemplating/meditating on the Trinity is the Christian koan, no?

I don't think so in light that there's a type of repetitation involved. In this case gibberish.

Tongues in my experience seems more like voodoo in the sense of inducing a mental state similar with that associated with trance which is imo a hallmark of pentecostilism.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Ok, how does "screaming monkey" sound to you? Better description? What would cultivating screaming monkey be then?

Probably as screaming monkeys enjoy whatever it clings with among the branches while chattering away aimlessly to it's satisfaction and contentment. I remember the emotional high and feelings of connection when I used to utter tongues during my time as a Pentecostal. "0)