Observation on Speaking in Tongues (Pentecostalism)

[Confucian Mormon Buddhist]

I get a hoot over the tongues bull****.

I remember uttering tongues and getting two different interpretations.

Another time I faked it and got an interpretation anyways.

I suppose it makes people feel good about it, but it's completely playing pretend.

Interesting. Were you raised Pentecostal? What were some of your experiences with tongues?

I've been told it's evidence that you're being touched by the Holy Spirit. If you don't speak in tongues, the Holy Spirit hasn't come upon you, therefore you're not really saved yet.

In a lot of Pentecostal churches that's the doctrine. In mine it was considered important and a very good sign, but the pastor also preached that it was not necessary for salvation and that a person could be a better Christian than a tongue-talker and not speak in tongues themselves.

Supposedly it is God/angels placing "prayer" into your mind/mouth for things that you wouldn't otherwise know need prayer/help. They call it intercessory prayer - or prayer made on your behalf by an "intercessor" - one who intercedes.

I remember sitting in many services where the pastor, or others, would close their eyes, get this solemn look on their faces and then start blubbering: "Shala habbaba shalem hala bebba shutalabehala...", or, in other words, a bunch of utter nonsense. It was so funny and so not funny all at once.

It is nothing more than proof that there can be found an excuse for literally any strange/aberrant behaviors practiced by these religious groups.

Ha, my pastor would sometimes just repeat "ba" a bunch. One time he was even laying hands on somebody and started howling like he threw out his back. The church grew dead quiet! I think that was one time when it got so ridiculous that the illusion was lifted...

There are some people who say that, usually Pentecostals. I think in the wider charismatic movement that is not the case, however it is taken as given that tongues is a spiritual gift available to any believer.

In addition there are some who would not consider gibberish to be genuine tongues. There can be cynicism. People are always changing, and churches are always changing. I think the practice of speaking in tongues is spreading into southern baptist churches and also some Roman Catholic churches. I've seen it in Methodist, Episcopalian and Lutheran churches. It is not spreading into non-trinitarian churches as there's more of a separation between the trinitarians and the non-trinitarians.

Despite its spread I think its not as big a deal as it was in the 80's. So its more widespread but neither as controversial nor as influential now. As its usefulness for creating controversy decreases, so will its value to ministers I think. Then perhaps it will become more plain whether there is a real supernatural form of tongue going around or not. At the moment you'd never know it if there was.

The Pentecostals I was with would often talk about some sort of superstitious revival in the 80s, but I've never found any term for it. Basically, they remember the 1980s and Reagan-era Christianity as having a lot more miracles. I think speaking in tongues goes along with that.

Thanks, but now I'm curious. Can you give me just an idea of the kind of things, topics and subjects being revealed?

Eh, I can't really remember anything big. My pastor distrusted prophets and was wary about letting it into his church. He'd pray in tongues a lot to get direction for his sermons (his were mostly improv... and really long, like two hours). I know one girl there had been prophecied over in tongues, getting a calling to be a full-time missionary. She later went on to do it, but this was before I came along.

Prophets, in this case, means petty, modern-day prophets who are not leaders of the church. Essentially any yahoo who can gather enough credibility to style himself as one, but the Pentecostals don't put them in charge, and they'll drop them quickly if they turn out to be weird.

OK, I can understand that, BUT why do they think the Holy Spirit would give them a non-useful experience?

I think when I was a kid, I was told that speaking in tongues meant you could preach the Gospel in one language but the listener would hear it in their own native language. Now that ability would rock.

That's also speaking in tongues, and that's the type which is definitely in the Bible. On the day of Pentecost (don't remember the chapter), a bunch of dudes in Jerusalem started incontrollably preaching in each other's languages. It was an important miracle for letting Christianity be spread to many nations at once.

OK. thanks. So, do they believe they are getting a message that they can intelligibly understand? If so, what would be an example of this.

Sometimes, sometimes not. One example of an intelligible message would be when a girl was given a prophecy (through tongues) that she would be a full-time missionary.

I don't think so in light that there's a type of repetitation involved. In this case gibberish.

Tongues in my experience seems more like voodoo in the sense of inducing a mental state similar with that associated with trance which is imo a hallmark of pentecostilism.

I suppose you can take it as either. Watching them do it, it sometimes looks a lot like Buddhists meditating, just much louder. But yeah, Pentecostal services are very entrancing.

I was hooked on going to church for a long time because of it. A typical service would begin with people finding their seats and socializing for a while, with the band playing a rhythm in the background. This gave the place a real sense of happiness and welcoming that made it possible for me (a naturally nervous type) to loosen up. After a while, the pastor would come out and do his announcements, preach a miniature sermon related to tithing (usually dressed up as a sermon on honor), and then you'd pay the tithe by lining up to deposit your tithe/offering into a basket at the front (a practice the pastor had learned in Africa).

Once all that was done (and we've probably burned about thirty minutes by this point, you do singing. Really long songs, typical Pentecostal music (you can find it just by searching on YouTube). This bunch was rather good about participating, and they'd go to the front and sing together. Most of them would raise their hands. After maybe thirty-ish minutes of that, and whatever speaking in tongues interspersed in, the pastor would preach for one to two hours on his main subject, sometimes concluding with laying on hands (or another ritual), almost always concluding with multiple prayers. This dude loved to hear himself talk, so he'd constantly be doing that "one more thing" routine.

But by the end of it, it felt really refreshing. The sermons were very good (most of them focused on actual issues in life, with considerable amounts of scripture, anecdotes, and humor worked in), and for me, the long length added this sort of tension-then-release thing where I'd feel especially good after the pain of sitting through the last twenty minutes of Pastor's bull****.

I definitely remember being entranced at times from the music. For the most part it was rather good and gave me a much deeper sense of satisfaction with my faith, but sometimes it'd get weird.

 

[Confucian Mormon Buddhist]

Probably as screaming monkeys enjoy whatever it clings with among the branches while chattering away aimlessly to it's satisfaction and contentment. I remember the emotional high and feelings of connection when I used to utter tongues during my time as a Pentecostal. "0)

Do you find yourself missing it much?

I was generally satisfied with my Mormon faith prior to joining the Pentecostals. After joining that church Mormonism seemed really empty, and after leaving it I didn't really see much of interest in Baptism/Lutheranism. It's like church isn't church without the atmosphere that Pentecostals create.

I don't think speaking in tongues would be objectionable at all as long as the churches didn't try to pass it off as anything but a meditative tool.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Do you find yourself missing it much?

I was generally satisfied with my Mormon faith prior to joining the Pentecostals. After joining that church Mormonism seemed really empty, and after leaving it I didn't really see much of interest in Baptism/Lutheranism. It's like church isn't church without the atmosphere that Pentecostals create.

I don't think speaking in tongues would be objectionable at all as long as the churches didn't try to pass it off as anything but a meditative tool.

No. I don't miss it at all.

This was very early on when I first got introduced to Christianity in HS through a friend who himself was enamoured with tongues and pointed out the revelent passages.

Tongues just seemed interesting and mysterious at first, qualities that greatly peak my interest, but this soon waned soon after once I attempted it initially from my pastor at the time during annointing services, and took into consideration what had resulted in the following years when a more complete picture emerged.

It didn't take very long to realise over the course of time that it turned out no more as being uttered gibberish resulting from all the inaccuracies and lack of consistency that followed, which told me over time this was no more than just babble followed with more babble through said "interpretation" of what all the babble "says".

It proved disappointing for me. It was wonderful emotionally, connecting soul with God through a mysterious language so I thought, but not much else aside from the emotional aspect that uttering tongues supposedly brings to people.

It was just another chip (personally a good thing in retrospect) at the stained glass windows that illuminated the rose colored world I was living in.

I don't consider tongues as meditation.

Things like mayko for instance is a "byproduct" of a mind that isn't fully settled and as such, quickly dismissed and allowed to pass. I.e. phenomena like voices, smells, sensations.

Tongues foundational premises tend to be more substantial in light uttering and interpretation are not something to be disregarded nor dismissed by those who think there's revelance in doing so. Its more akin with an induced mental trance than meditation. Meditation I think dosent work well under those parameters, based on my own experiences involving both.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

OK. thanks. So, do they believe they are getting a message that they can intelligibly understand? If so, what would be an example of this.

The way it was explained to me, no one in the presence of those doing the speaking need actually understand. It was (again, supposedly) a way for angels to help you to pray for something you didn't need to know or the person being prayed for didn't even know themselves. For example, the "prayer" goes out over an individual who is or will be developing cancer. Only God/angels know about this person's anticipated cancer... so they put the prayer into your mind/mouth for you.

Which, of course, begs the question - if God knows what the person needs prayer for, and you, the prayor, don't, then why does He even need to help you pray? He already knows... shouldn't that be enough to "get the ball rolling?" Apparently not.

 

[Kenny]

There are some people who say that, usually Pentecostals. I think in the wider charismatic movement that is not the case, however it is taken as given that tongues is a spiritual gift available to any believer.

In addition there are some who would not consider gibberish to be genuine tongues. There can be cynicism. People are always changing, and churches are always changing. I think the practice of speaking in tongues is spreading into southern baptist churches and also some Roman Catholic churches. I've seen it in Methodist, Episcopalian and Lutheran churches. It is not spreading into non-trinitarian churches as there's more of a separation between the trinitarians and the non-trinitarians.

Despite its spread I think its not as big a deal as it was in the 80's. So its more widespread but neither as controversial nor as influential now. As its usefulness for creating controversy decreases, so will its value to ministers I think. Then perhaps it will become more plain whether there is a real supernatural form of tongue going around or not. At the moment you'd never know it if there was.

Yes, it has spread to the Baptist Churches and the Roman Catholic church et al. Today's manifestation of glossa began in different parts of the world... the one in the USA began at Asuza St in Los Angeles California. From this point the following denominations were birthed:

Wesleyan-holiness
Church of God of Cleveland, Tn
Church of God in Christ
Pentecostal Holiness Church
Four Square
Pentecostal Church of God
Assemblies of God
and a host of unaffiliated churches.

Apparently 1 in 4 participate in these churches and reports say that it remains the fastest section of Christian growth.

 

[Glaurung]

I'd have to hear something a little more structured than gibberish to be convinced. And even then, I would be super weary about attributing the phenomenon to God. I don't think it's wise to attempt to conjure miracles. It's throwing open the doors to spiritual delusion.

 

[crossfire]

I don't think so in light that there's a type of repetitation involved. In this case gibberish.

Tongues in my experience seems more like voodoo in the sense of inducing a mental state similar with that associated with trance which is imo a hallmark of pentecostilism.

Trance is a form of mental absorption. It can be a fine line between trance and meditation--namely mindfulness. Isn't following your breath in meditation a form of repetition?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Trance is a form of mental absorption. It can be a fine line between trance and meditation--namely mindfulness. Isn't following your breath in meditation a form of repetition?

Following breath, as in counting breaths helps with focus in meditation sessions. There/this is a form of control present that conditions the mind for Shikantaza.

Tongues isn't quite like that, givin it's erratic random uttering for which no form of control exists that has any refining quality. At least in Pentecostalism.

At best, tongues a form of mental absorption (or trance) for which this activity "locks" or clings continually with the gibberish. It can affect emotion and is suggestive, but nothing past that.

Maybe it (gibberish) could be used as a precursor to some forms of meditation as a tool of focus, but Pentecostilism dosent go that route based on my experiences with it.

 

[Kenny]

I'd have to hear something a little more structured than gibberish to be convinced. And even then, I would be super weary about attributing the phenomenon to God. I don't think it's wise to attempt to conjure miracles. It's throwing open the doors to spiritual delusion.

To be honest, I remember when I thought it was all made up when, as the pastor asked me to pray for a youth who had a medical problem that doctors could figure out what it was, this thing called tongues began coming out and I could stop.

Then, like a faucet that was turned off, it stopped.

All symptoms left and the doctors gave him a clean bill of health.

At that point, I stopped doubting.

 

[Confucian Mormon Buddhist]

To be honest, I remember when I thought it was all made up when, as the pastor asked me to pray for a youth who had a medical problem that doctors could figure out what it was, this thing called tongues began coming out and I could stop.

Then, like a faucet that was turned off, it stopped.

All symptoms left and the doctors gave him a clean bill of health.

At that point, I stopped doubting.

I've heard many Pentecostals say that they were skeptical for years before they had an experience like yours.

Now, can you speak in tongues at will? And do you see ways in which the world influences your tongues, and what are your thoughts on that?

 

[Kenny]

I've heard many Pentecostals say that they were skeptical for years before they had an experience like yours.

Now, can you speak in tongues at will? And do you see ways in which the world influences your tongues, and what are your thoughts on that?

Actually, there are two general types of tongues.

The first is that which Christians understand as what comes with the baptism the "dunamis", Greek for power, of the Holy Spirit. These can be used at any time and is has varying uses for personal edification or the receiving of answers for particular situations.

The other is that which is inspired or sponsored by the Holy Spirit when He wills and God uses it to speak to the church and requires an interpretation that must be judged by those in attendance.

As far as how the world influences your tongues... to be honest, I never thought about it and not sure if it does and if it does how. (I haven't noticed it)

I will think about that question.

 

[Kenny]

And do you see ways in which the world influences your tongues, and what are your thoughts on that?

Upon some thought... could you ask the question differently? I'm not quite sure I get the question.

 

[Confucian Mormon Buddhist]

Upon some thought... could you ask the question differently? I'm not quite sure I get the question.

How the stuff you're exposed to throughout the day impacts the sound of your tongues.

For example, the one time I felt close to speaking in tongues, I stopped short of actually saying them and thought about the words that were in my head. It was Middle Eastern-sounding gibberish with a few real words like "Asyut" (a city in Egypt) and "mahal" (as in the Taj Mahal) thrown in.

Well, I had binging the Battlefield 1 beta for several days, which meant I was hearing a LOT of Turkish (the game has you playing as either British or Ottoman soldiers).

Similarly, the pastor, who was always going to Africa on mission trips, had African-sounding tongues, and the girl I liked was studying French and had French-sounding tongues.

 

[Kenny]

How the stuff you're exposed to throughout the day impacts the sound of your tongues.

For example, the one time I felt close to speaking in tongues, I stopped short of actually saying them and thought about the words that were in my head. It was Middle Eastern-sounding gibberish with a few real words like "Asyut" (a city in Egypt) and "mahal" (as in the Taj Mahal) thrown in.

Well, I had binging the Battlefield 1 beta for several days, which meant I was hearing a LOT of Turkish (the game has you playing as either British or Ottoman soldiers).

Similarly, the pastor, who was always going to Africa on mission trips, had African-sounding tongues, and the girl I liked was studying French and had French-sounding tongues.

Interesting... will keep a thoughtful lookout for this.

Thoughtfully, I can't say it has happened to me. My wife and I do everything together and yet we have different tongues (as in regular use). The divers kinds of tongues does happen but we our lives are pretty secluded from the extended world (other that Latin American cultures as we both speak Spanish too). But our glossa does not have Spanish sounding words.

 

[Kenny]

Here is an interesting study.

Speaking in Tongues – A Neural Snapshot | Brain Blogger

 

[David1967]

I've been told it's evidence that you're being touched by the Holy Spirit. If you don't speak in tongues, the Holy Spirit hasn't come upon you, therefore you're not really saved yet.

That would be the view of the "oneness Pentecostals" not so much the Trinitarian types of Pentecostals. I don't buy into the modern tongues movement at all. The jabbering of today imo is nonsense and no more than an emotional outburst. IMHO of course.

 

[David1967]

I don't think so in light that there's a type of repetitation involved. In this case gibberish.

Tongues in my experience seems more like voodoo in the sense of inducing a mental state similar with that associated with trance which is imo a hallmark of pentecostilism.

I agree. I have seen footage of women practicing some kind of voodoo thing where they were flopping around speaking in tongues. Saw a Tibetan Shaman speaking in tongues (from a spirit) to bless a traveler. Tongues are not just a fringe of Christianity.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I agree. I have seen footage of women practicing some kind of voodoo thing where they were flopping around speaking in tongues. Saw a Tibetan Shaman speaking in tongues (from a spirit) to bless a traveler. Tongues are not just a fringe of Christianity.

I remember once tears were flowing down my cheeks after speaking in tongues. They said it was the holy spirit but in hindsight later realised it was power of suggestion, for which it's well documented in psychology. That would explain the broad application with mulitiple religions that differ from one another.

 

[David1967]

I remember once tears were flowing down my cheeks after speaking in tongues. They said it was the holy spirit but in hindsight later realised it was power of suggestion, for which it's well documented in psychology. That would explain the broad application with mulitiple religions that differ from one another.

Exactly. And speaking of the power of suggestion, I recommend the documentary 'An honest liar'.

 

[Kenny]

I agree. I have seen footage of women practicing some kind of voodoo thing where they were flopping around speaking in tongues. Saw a Tibetan Shaman speaking in tongues (from a spirit) to bless a traveler. Tongues are not just a fringe of Christianity.

Yet in Act 16, it speaks of a woman who had the ability to divine (authored by Satan) which is much like the word of knowledge and the word of wisdom (authored by the Holy Spirit). I don't think that just because a Tibetan shaman spoke in tongues means that it doesn't exist... rather it would add support of the fact that it is a spiritual manifestation. The question would more likely be, which ones are God's and which ones are not.

It would also be wrong to call it the "fringe of Christianity" since 1 in 4 identify themselves as part of the glossa.