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Nothing Short Of Perfection
- Thread starter BilliardsBall
- Start date
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
I'm the OP. The Bible record is explicit that Jesus committed no sin.
Jesus is God, morally perfect, able to substitute on the cross for us.
Riders
Well-Known Member
Jesus got angry turned over the money changer tables and disrupted a religious service by riding in on a donkey.He also got drunk several times. What about money, he knew that Judas was stealing money and he kept him with him. Theres questionable verses in new testament about how money was handled?
By saying ' angry ' that can come across as if one is trying to say that ' Jesus' lost it ', whereas Jesus' anger was in righteous indignation because that ' anger ' was ' zeal ' as in 'zeal for God's house of worship' - Psalms 69:9
Jesus exposed that fraudulent profit-making business among the money changers - Matthew 21:12-13
Jesus' angry criticism was that the money changers were turning the temple in a cave of robbers, thus Jesus' zealous action was justified to clean out the holy temple.
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Please post what verses you have in mind saying Jesus' sinned, got drunk, over ate, etc.
Please notice Hebrews 4:15 B
leibowde84
Veteran Member
I never claimed that it did. Musing Bassist made that claim. I am debating with him, not the Bible.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
1. Jesus turned the tables to fulfill the prophecy "Zeal for Thy House will consume me." The moneylenders were in the Temple courts ripping people off rather than giving fair monetary exchanges. Why in the Temple area? So the people had local coin for sacrifices. The moneylenders were profaning the religious practice, not Jesus. He was "cleaning up Dodge".
2. Where in the scriptures does it indicate Jesus drank unto drunkenness? Jesus drank the same wine I drink in Jewish religious practice. Small amounts of low-alcohol wine. Can you get drunk off a communion sip of wine?
3. Jesus knew Judas was doing wrong, yes. He kept Him nearby and kept witnessing faith to Judas. You and I sometimes have to make tough choices when we see someone in trouble. Turn them to the authorities? Witness faith to them? Your statement is like saying anyone who confesses wrongdoing to any priest, attorney or psychologist should be immediately turned into the law authorities. Are you accusing priests, attorneys and psychologists of great sin?
4. How come the Pharisees and Jewish leaders were unable to present these "sins" at Jesus's trial?
5. If we read whole books about your life and mine, would we find three arguable sins or more than three?
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Where/when? And is overeating sin? What kind of horrible church told you that?
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Thanks for the correction!
Riders
Well-Known Member
Riders
Well-Known Member
Billiards I will answer 1 2 and 5 1 the money changers I don't get your analogy he went crazy and started turning over tables and freaked out,its not ok. Its rage and rage is a sin.
The bible says in everything you do do it in reason,or maybe its balance that's not balanced or reasonable.
2. That's what alcoholics say about wine today. Your not suppose to be able to get drunk on cough medicine either but alcoholics do.
If its got even a tine bit of alcohol in it you can get drunk and they drank alot back then.
The bible says in everything you do do it in reason,or maybe its balance that's not balanced or reasonable.
2. That's what alcoholics say about wine today. Your not suppose to be able to get drunk on cough medicine either but alcoholics do.
If its got even a tine bit of alcohol in it you can get drunk and they drank alot back then.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
I've read the entire Bible. There are indications that it is unwise to overeat, overindulge:
1. Where in the Bible does it say overeating is a sin? (You'll need to post Chapter and Verse, as I can hardly post the entire Bible here to demonstrate you are mistaken.)
2. Where in the Bible does it say Jesus Christ overate or overindulged?
3. Where in the Bible does it say Jesus was enraged, with the moneylenders or anyone else? It says things like "He was distressed," or "He wept," or "He knew what was in their hearts [being omniscient]. . . "
4. Where does the Bible say "do everything in reason"? Where in the Bible does it say, "Don't be unbalanced" or "Don't be unreasonable"?
5. "They drank a lot back then" has nothing in common with the Passover seder, the ONLY occasion in the Bible where Jesus may have had anything to drink. He may not have even drunk as He passed the cup and told the disciples to drink! I participated in Passover seders from my youth on up. It is considered fine for an eight-year-old or less to have the several sips of Manischewitz needed to perform the Passover seder as a member of the congregation. Again, you are saying the equivalent of "Jesus was a drunkard because He had all the wine that is in one Communion sip in a Roman church." Jesus specifically addressed and rebuked the claims that He was a drunkard (Matthew 8, if memory serves).
Why is it so important that you and I sin but Jesus did not? Because He is the only way of salvation, the sinless substitute for our sin.
You don't doubt that humans are imperfect morally, do you? I ask because you are quick to tell me what Jesus has done but not revealing what you've done. Have you flown into a rage, gotten inebriated, been unbalanced, overindulged? I have. I recognize my need for Jesus Christ. What is your need?
Riders
Well-Known Member
Ok couldn't find the deadly sins but did find this and a bunch other gluttony scriptures and this is enough to say its wrong.
Hear thou, my son, and be wise, and guide thine heart in the way. Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh: For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags. Proverbs 23:19
I found the one where they said the son of man cam drunkard and partying so Ill get it and I found bunch of stuff on not getting drunk.
Uh drunkenus is one of the deadly sins, your claim is the wine that was made back then was so weak it wasn't real wine and you couldn't get drunk on it. If that's true the bibles a liar, sense there are a bunch on drunkards.
Hear thou, my son, and be wise, and guide thine heart in the way. Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh: For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags. Proverbs 23:19
I found the one where they said the son of man cam drunkard and partying so Ill get it and I found bunch of stuff on not getting drunk.
Uh drunkenus is one of the deadly sins, your claim is the wine that was made back then was so weak it wasn't real wine and you couldn't get drunk on it. If that's true the bibles a liar, sense there are a bunch on drunkards.
Riders
Well-Known Member
This is the 7 deadly sins according to the Catholic bible but its not from the other one.
This is from Wiki
The seven deadly sins, also known as the capital vices or cardinal sins, is a grouping and classification of vices of Christian origin.[1] Behaviors or habits are classified under this category if they directly give birth to other immoralities.[2] According to the standard list, they are pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath, and sloth,[2] which are also contrary to the seven virtues. These sins are often thought to be abuses or excessive versions of one's natural faculties or passions (for example, gluttony abuses one's desire to eat).
This classification originated with the desert fathers, especially Evagrius Ponticus, who identified seven or eight evil thoughts or spirits that one needed to overcome.[3] Evagrius' pupil John Cassian, with his book The Institutes, brought the classification to Europe,[4] where it became fundamental to Catholic confessional practices as evident in penitential manuals, sermons like "The Parson's Tale" from Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, and artworks like Dante's Purgatory (where the penitents of Mount Purgatory are depicted as being grouped and penanced according to the worst capital sin they committed). The Church used the doctrine of the deadly sins in order to help people stop their inclination towards evil before dire consequences and misdeeds occur; the leader-teachers especially focused on pride (which is thought to be the one that severs
This is from Wiki
The seven deadly sins, also known as the capital vices or cardinal sins, is a grouping and classification of vices of Christian origin.[1] Behaviors or habits are classified under this category if they directly give birth to other immoralities.[2] According to the standard list, they are pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath, and sloth,[2] which are also contrary to the seven virtues. These sins are often thought to be abuses or excessive versions of one's natural faculties or passions (for example, gluttony abuses one's desire to eat).
This classification originated with the desert fathers, especially Evagrius Ponticus, who identified seven or eight evil thoughts or spirits that one needed to overcome.[3] Evagrius' pupil John Cassian, with his book The Institutes, brought the classification to Europe,[4] where it became fundamental to Catholic confessional practices as evident in penitential manuals, sermons like "The Parson's Tale" from Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, and artworks like Dante's Purgatory (where the penitents of Mount Purgatory are depicted as being grouped and penanced according to the worst capital sin they committed). The Church used the doctrine of the deadly sins in order to help people stop their inclination towards evil before dire consequences and misdeeds occur; the leader-teachers especially focused on pride (which is thought to be the one that severs