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Non-Religion 'Religion'

Storm

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
I'd say religion isn't defined by buildings and congregations. They may not have a church, but it's clearly religion.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
GrsshppR

GrsshppR

Uber Boy
I think its different when your talking about "the LIVING Jesus" and religion. Religion = A System Of Mans Beliefs. And their saying its in following the Living Jesus.

But yeah, In the end, its still religion, I guess
 
Y

Youtellme

Active Member
Dunno what to make of it...nicely edited video? They are talking religion mind. The thing is, they quote scripture but deny the need of organisation, which is something the scriptures require of true worship...
 
HonestJoe

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
If two or more people get together to say they don't need organisations, they're only fooling themselves. :)
 
GrsshppR

GrsshppR

Uber Boy
HonestJoe said:
If two or more people get together to say they don't need organizations, they're only fooling themselves. :)
Click to expand...


Ah yes, true. But a family, by blood, sticking together, is far from an organization.

Youtellme said:
Dunno what to make of it...nicely edited video? They are talking religion mind. The thing is, they quote scripture but deny the need of organization, which is something the scriptures require of true worship...
Click to expand...

Now, as I have always believed in not going to church or needing others to worship, I disagree with this statement completely.
Where in the scriptures does it say, "Unless you have an organization or congregate with others you cannot see the Kingdom of God"?
Jesus says "My TRUE worshipers, worship Me in spirit and in truth" John.4
And this is in reply to the women asking, Do we worship in a temple (church, organization) like the Jews or on the mountain..etc.
I think to sit a building listening/learning from a person (sinner like you and me) is contrary to the purpose of Jesus.
He says "Come LEARN from ME"
"You will need NO ONE to teach, but My Holy Spirit will teach you all things"

This is what is written in the Word.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
GrsshppR said:
Now, as I have always believed in not going to church or needing others to worship, I disagree with this statement completely.
Where in the scriptures does it say, "Unless you have an organization or congregate with others you cannot see the Kingdom of God"?
Click to expand...
The passage that's normally cited is Matthew 18:20:

For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”
Click to expand...

Also, there's the example of the disciples that's given in Acts: the believers came together and worshipped as a community.

Edit: not to mention the Epistles, almost all of which are addressed to churches. Apparently, the early Christians felt the need to set up churches.
 
GrsshppR

GrsshppR

Uber Boy
9-10ths_Penguin said:
The passage that's normally cited is Matthew 18:20:



Also, there's the example of the disciples that's given in Acts: the believers came together and worshipped as a community.

Edit: not to mention the Epistles, almost all of which are addressed to churches. Apparently, the early Christians felt the need to set up churches.
Click to expand...


yes, yes. How could you forget Hebrews, Do not forsake the assembly?
I find it interesting how these 'Churchians' know every verse defending church, and
1 Usually don't know much of the word besides it
2 have no response to the scriptures I used there.
 
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Y

Youtellme

Active Member
GrsshppR said:
yes, yes. How could you forget Hebrews, Do not forsake the assembly?
I find it interesting how these 'Churchians' know every verse defending church, and
1 Usually don't know much of the word besides it
2 have no response to the scriptures I used there
Click to expand...

Sorry, bit confused, but anyway, Jesus was making it clear that you don't need to be in a church to pray or worship God. That you can do anywhere. However, as has been pointed out most of Pauls letters were addressed to congregations in various cities.
These may be nothing more than a gathering of people in someones house, but there was none the less to be order and organisation. God said that he is a God of order and the scriptures say that everything should take place decently and by arrangement.

And if you don't agrre with the new testament, there is the Temple arrangement in the Old Testament. God has always had a theocracy.
 
GrsshppR

GrsshppR

Uber Boy
Youtellme said:
Sorry, bit confused, but anyway, Jesus was making it clear that you don't need to be in a church to pray or worship God. That you can do anywhere. However, as has been pointed out most of Paul's letters were addressed to congregations in various cities.
These may be nothing more than a gathering of people in someones house, but there was none the less to be order and organization. God said that he is a God of order and the scriptures say that everything should take place decently and by arrangement.

And if you don't agree with the new testament, there is the Temple arrangement in the Old Testament. God has always had a theocracy.
Click to expand...

What were you confused by?
Exactly my point. You do not NEED a congregation. The infamous "however".
The umpteen million churches of today is very similar to the ones in the days of Paul (sarcastic). Do you read what actually happened in Acts? You can not seriously think that what happens in todays 'churches, sitting for one hour a week listening to one pastor, is at all the same as a group of people giving up their lives daily, sharing everything on fire for Jesus. HUGE difference.

Not disagreeing but where does the Scriptures say "everything should take place decently and by arrangement." ?
Of course I agree with the New Testament.
The fact is, the Temple is one inwardly. Not a build "made with human hands" Acts.17:28 Acts.7:48. We are the temple of the Living God.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
GrsshppR said:
yes, yes. How could you forget Hebrews, Do not forsake the assembly?
I find it interesting how these 'Churchians' know every verse defending church, and
1 Usually don't know much of the word besides it
2 have no response to the scriptures I used there.
Click to expand...
Heh... I'm no "Churchian".

As for the scriptures you mentioned:

GrsshppR said:
Jesus says "My TRUE worshipers, worship Me in spirit and in truth" John.4
And this is in reply to the women asking, Do we worship in a temple (church, organization) like the Jews or on the mountain..etc.
Click to expand...
Assuming you're talking about this passage:

19The woman said to Him, "Sir, I perceive that You are (U)a prophet.

20"(V)Our fathers worshiped in (W)this mountain, and you people say that (X)in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship."
21Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, (Y)an hour is coming when (Z)neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.
22"(AA)You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for (AB)salvation is from the Jews.
23"But (AC)an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father (AD)in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. 24"God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship (AE)in spirit and truth."
Click to expand...

I don't see how you can interpret it to necessarily say that Jesus doesn't want you to worship in a church". I think it also works to interpret it as saying that Jesus doesn't care where you put your church, or that any place on Earth is fitting for a place of worship.
 
Y

Youtellme

Active Member
GrsshppR said:
What were you confused by?
Exactly my point. You do not NEED a congregation. The infamous "however".
The umpteen million churches of today is very similar to the ones in the days of Paul (sarcastic). Do you read what actually happened in Acts? You can not seriously think that what happens in todays 'churches, sitting for one hour a week listening to one pastor, is at all the same as a group of people giving up their lives daily, sharing everything on fire for Jesus. HUGE difference.

Not disagreeing but where does the Scriptures say "everything should take place decently and by arrangement." ?
Of course I agree with the New Testament.
The fact is, the Temple is one inwardly. Not a build "made with human hands" Acts.17:28 Acts.7:48. We are the temple of the Living God.
Click to expand...

The thing is, you may not agree with the need for "Churches" or "Congregations" but scriptually, there is nothing wrong with the concept. What may be wrong is the was these churches go about things.
As to where it says "everything should take place decently and by arrangement." It's found in 1 Corinthians 14: 40
1 Corinthians 14 Douay-Rheims Bible
 
HonestJoe

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
UltraViolet said:
What does that mean?
That 2 or more people getting together equals 'an organization'?
Click to expand...
I was being flippant really but there was a point in there too.
They're clearly not a formal church organisation but they're going ahead doing the same kind of things church organisations do, just on a smaller scale. I've no doubt that it's an important distinction for them but from the outside it doesn't appear all that different.
 
Midnight Pete

Midnight Pete

Well-Known Member
It's impossible for one person to be a solitary Christian.

That may work for pagans, but Christians require a church.

Church =/= Building
 
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