Nobody Wants to Work

[SalixIncendium]

My experience is skewed because of a decade of military service. But in that time I didn't notice a huge difference in work ethic between generations.

Now, attitudes were a bit ****tier in the newer gens, but I've always attributed that to aging.

I have the benefit of moving from a management position in QSR to an entry level position in my current field and moving back up to a management position. I've seen the job offered and pay provided from all angles as well as having the benefit of actually doing the job I'm hiring for.

$18-$24/hr for entry level experience isn't something to bat an eye at, IMO.

 

[Stevicus]

There's two sides to the story man. If you want to say that about the younger generation, you can, but as someone in my mid-thirties, I don't exactly have glowing reviews of the people 20 or 30 years older than me, than I've had to work with. Granted, I didn't start out as a good worker, but the way they treated me in the beginning of my working life was absolutely uncalled for.

I remember working for this guy as a painter, fresh from high school, and I swear he was just mean for no reason. Trash talking unions.. talking about how you should 'work your fingers to the bone' to make 15 an hour. Well now I'm in the kind of shape where I could work three times faster than him, but I don't think I'd yell at someone I was training. You know a lot of these people who do manual labor are drinkers, and they just they just let their mouth run

It depends. I've been hearing people say such things about American workers since the 1970s, where previous generations always say they suffered more, worked harder, walked to school barefoot in the snow.

In 20 or 30 years, you might be saying the same things about younger workers.

I suppose the workplace has changed in a lot of ways since I first started working in my teens. Human Resources departments seem to have changed a lot as well. A lot of the standards and workplace cultural mores have changed.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Unfortunately, the pay rates offered now (in most places) aren't worth their salt in cover living expenses. Let alone retention. Maybe 30 years ago, but not now.

Okay...I can agree with that. I've been apartment hunting since my daughter is kicking me out of my house I gave her and am not finding anything cost effective.

 

[The Hammer]

$18-$24/hr for entry level experience isn't something to bat an eye at, IMO.

That's true it's not. But I think it would be dependent on the location too.

 

[SalixIncendium]

That's true it's not. But I think it would be dependent on the location too.

Cleveland metro area.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

My experience is skewed because of a decade of military service. But in that time I didn't notice a huge difference in work ethic between generations.

Now, attitudes were a bit ****tier in the newer gens, but I've always attributed that to aging.

Well, I think maybe younger people can have more inner-fire, which can make them seem more erratic at times, but with proper training, minus spite from their elders, they can become functional. My dad told me a weird story about my grandfather the other week, who passed when I was like 11. It was said that his mother thought that 'nobody could control him,' and 'he just did what he wanted to.' He ran away from his home in appalachia at like 15, to fight world war 2, in three branches apparently. Then, he wanted to continue into vietnam.

I thought that was a strange story, because we associate my grandpa's generation with discipline, minus any of the angst we associate with modern young people. The modern mind thinks that they automatically respected previous generations. But my grandpa was a rebellious young person. I'll never be able to talk to him again, but I really want to know why he despised his parents, to run from them like he did.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I suppose the workplace has changed in a lot of ways since I first started working in my teens. Human Resources departments seem to have changed a lot as well. A lot of the standards and workplace cultural mores have changed.

The institution of HR itself seems kind of modern. I wonder about the history of their role so far

 

[The Hammer]

Cleveland metro area.

"Summary about cost of living in Cleveland, OH, United States: Family of four estimated monthly costs are 3,981.2$ without rent. A single person estimated monthly costs are 1,112.5$ without rent. Cleveland is 23.9% less expensive than New York (without rent).

So even if $1112.5 is what rent would cost as a single person. At 30% income, you need to be pulling in $3706 monthly. Or about $22 an hour, at 40 hours a week.

Edit: just found "The average rent in Cleveland is $1,396 for a one-bedroom apartment."

 

[Stevicus]

Well, I think maybe younger people can have more inner-fire, which can make them seem more erratic at times, but with proper training, minus spite from their elders, they can become functional. My dad told me a weird story about my grandfather the other week, who passed when I was like 11. It was said that his mother thought that 'nobody could control him,' and 'he just did what he wanted to.' He ran away from his home in appalachia at like 15, to fight world war 2, in three branches apparently. Then, he wanted to continue into vietnam.

I thought that was a strange story, because we associate my grandpa's generation with discipline, minus any of the angst we associate with modern young people. The modern mind thinks that they automatically respected previous generations. But my grandpa was a rebellious young person. I'll never be able to talk to him again, but I really want to know why he despised his parents, to run from them like he did.

My maternal grandfather left home in his early teens as well. He was from a family of 15 children, and his father was quite abusive. He got a job in a factory making pillows out of Spanish moss, and then later got a job as a cabin boy on an oil tanker. I think he was around 12 or 13.

If I had run away at that age, the cops would have found me and dragged me back home.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

My maternal grandfather left home in his early teens as well. He was from a family of 15 children, and his father was quite abusive. He got a job in a factory making pillows out of Spanish moss, and then later got a job as a cabin boy on an oil tanker. I think he was around 12 or 13.

If I had run away at that age, the cops would have found me and dragged me back home.

Ok, but again, and I don't want to come off as ignorant about their hardship, but they did live in a totally different kind of 'social paradigm,' where I think that there was no notion of any kind of social credit score, or analysis of individual history, in order for social functionality to occur. I am not saying that children should work. But today, it seems like in order to even strive to gain employment, and living space, we are pitted against giant webs of paperwork, and background checks, just to do anything. The country has been run by lawyers for quite some time. There are two sides to that

In the great depression for example, I am curious about how free-moving workers actually were. I think they probably were very free moving, compared to today. I don't think modern low wage workers today, actually have the ability to really switch towns.

And to go back even further, I have read Thoreau, and made threads on how he lived- I almost should re-read his book. Thoreau could just go and build a cabin, and nobody bothered him. What he did, would be absolutely unthinkable today.

 

[Stevicus]

The institution of HR itself seems kind of modern. I wonder about the history of their role so far

I think applying for and being hired for jobs has become more formalized. The function of HR has expanded greatly since the days it was simply known as the "Personnel Department."

 

[Stevicus]

Ok, but again, and I don't want to come off as ignorant about their hardship, but they did live in a totally different kind of 'social paradigm,' where I think that there was no notion of any kind of social credit score, or analysis of individual history, in order for social functionality to occur. I am not saying that children should work. But today, it seems like in order to even strive to gain employment, and living space, we are pitted against giant webs of paperwork, and background checks, just to do anything. The country has been run by lawyers for quite some time. There are two sides to that

In the great depression for example, I am curious about how free-moving workers actually were. I think they probably were very free moving, compared to today. I don't think modern low wage workers today, actually have the ability to really switch towns.

I suppose the country has always been run by lawyers in one form or another, although the law has changed and the political culture has also changed. America overall has changed, as I've seen in my own lifetime.

It's not just the lawyers, but also insurance companies which have a great deal of influence in how businesses make their decisions. Bean counters might also weigh in, since ultimately, business is about the bottom line and how much profit they're making. As my grandfather always said, "They're in business to make money."

My paternal grandparents along with my dad moved from Minnesota to Illinois during the Depression, but they stayed there for the rest of their lives, though my father eventually moved away to California. That's where he met my mother, and they got married and spawned a commie socialist anti-Christ who is an enemy of the civilized world (yet still has a good sense of humor and is a lot of fun at parties).

 

[PureX]

It seemed that you opposed allowing the homeless
to live in substandard conditions, eg, trailers, tents,
boxes, shacks, tiny homes. Without an alternative,
your policy makes their plight even worse.
I advocate government's getting out of their way,
& cutting them some slack.

In an act of civil disobedience, I enable some
to live in unconventional ways, eg, in a car,
in a trailer (where not zoned for it). Sometimes,
what's right isn't what's legal.

Wow, you really avoided that post, didn't you.

 

[wellwisher]

Is everyone missing the point here??
USA unemployment rate is at a 50 year low. Almost everybody IS working.

Unemployment is based on the percent of people who are looking for work and/or all ready have jobs. The math does not count those who are out of the workforce, such as the retired, handicapped, injured, etc. It will also not count anyone, who is able bodied, but not looking for work. If we have 1 million people not looking to work, they are not counted as unemployed, but rather they are treated as another static called, out of the work force, like someone old and retired. It is a game.

If you look at available jobs, based on employers trying to hire, there are too many surplus jobs, for a genuine unemployment rate to be so low too many able bodies. An available jobs approach to employment, would be based on all able bodies, which shows much more unemployment.

Part of the problem was the pandemic. The Democrats party shut down half the economy and paid people not to work for several years. They paid many people better than working their jobs. This became an incentive not to work with extensions. This created bad habits and poor work ethics for many. Many continued to stay out of the workforce. Everyone saw the problem, but fake news ignored the story, as directed.

Democrats know how to cheat the numbers to make themselves look better than their skills. They also did this with their high big city crime numbers. They lowered them, not by reducing crime, but by not prosecuting criminals. If you do not prosecute, then no crime record means no crime, and better crime numbers. If we look crime from the POV of victims, similar to the surplus jobs, the crime is up in Democrat cities. We need honesty in Government

Inflation was another numbers scam. If we based it on the way it used to be calculated, which use to include food and energy costs, inflation would be much higher. But if you leave off the big expenses of small people; lower and middle class, inflation will appear to be 5-8% lower than it really is. All is now rosy under these smoke and mirrors, but with the man in the street, still not seeing rose in their real lives.

 

[Revoltingest]

Wow, you really avoided that post, didn't you.

No, I responded to what was worth addressing.

 

[PureX]

Since Revoltingest won't answer the question, I'm curious what the rest of you would suggest that we do as a nation with the millions of unemployed and unemployable citizens we have now created. Keep in mind that very few of them will ever be employable, again. Nor do they much care about God, laws, morality, or anything else. They are drunks, junkies, and mentally ill. They have succumbed to hopelessness and poverty, permanently. They are broken humans that cannot be repaired, or healed, or saved from themselves.

So what now? Do we just let them die in the streets? Do we lock them up somewhere, permanently, so we don't have to see and face what our culture of greed and selfish excess has done to them? Do we create refuges for them where they can get drunk and high til they finally die?

Blaming democrats or republicans or capitalists or atheist isn't a solution. They are here, now. But what is? How much do we actually care about these people? And keep in mind they are our brothers and sisters, sons and daughter, aunts, uncles, and in some cases even parents. Also keep in mind that someone you love may be among them, or may soon become one of them.

So what do we do with them, now? I'm all ears.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Employers actually pay more than half of all income taxes. Surprised? Here's how this is true. The total amount of income tax on employee earnings is divided in half. One half of the income taxes are deducted from the gross pay of the employee. So one half is paid by the employee. The other half is paid by the employer. The employer pays it but it is credited to the employee's tax liability. In other words half of all the income taxes of wage-based employees are paid by their employer. Add to this income taxes on corporate income, dividends paid, and other income taxes and it is clear that corporations pay more than half of all income taxes. They just don't get any recognition or credit for it.

Not true. You are speaking of the FICA taxes. Employers portion of FICA taxes is in lieu of wages or benefits.

 

[Wandering Monk]

The institution of HR itself seems kind of modern. I wonder about the history of their role so far

Disgusting they think of humans as a resource like timber, oil, or soybeans.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I'm curious what the rest of you would suggest

The construction of a massive amount of monasteries, where people would go to both be behave and opt out. That's one possible solution

 

[Stevicus]

Since Revoltingest won't answer the question, I'm curious what the rest of you would suggest that we do as a nation with the millions of unemployed and unemployable citizens we have now created. Keep in mind that very few of them will ever be employable, again. Nor do they much care about God, laws, morality, or anything else. They are drunks, junkies, and mentally ill. They have succumbed to hopelessness and poverty, permanently. They are broken humans that cannot be repaired, or healed, or saved from themselves.

So what now? Do we just let them die in the streets? Do we lock them up somewhere, permanently, so we don't have to see and face what our culture of greed and selfish excess has done to them? Do we create refuges for them where they can get drunk and high til they finally die?

Blaming democrats or republicans or capitalists or atheist isn't a solution. They are here, now. But what is? How much do we actually care about these people? And keep in mind they are our brothers and sisters, sons and daughter, aunts, uncles, and in some cases even parents. Also keep in mind that someone you love may be among them, or may soon become one of them.

So what do we do with them, now? I'm all ears.

I would first wonder as to whether they're *all* completely broken and unsalvageable. No doubt some are, but there might be those who can recover under the right conditions. But I would agree with the idea that they should be offered some sort of humane care and shelter of some sort - better than languishing in homelessness and dying in the streets. No strings attached, no sermons, no pretense of "turning your life around" when everyone knows that's never going to happen. Free booze and drugs to be able to get high until they die makes it sound like a kind of "addict hospice," but perhaps that's the least among many evils.