Nobody here understands me!

[Jim]

Can you say more about the anti-Christian philosophies? Are you saying these costume Buddhists have legitimate criticisms of Christianity? or just knee-jerk disapproval?

((There is something that I would call honest and responsible criticism of a religion, but I’m not sure that I’ve ever seen that in public debating. Everything that I’ve seen being called “criticism” of a religion in public debating looks to me like excuses and camouflage for using some people as scapegoats, effigies and voodoo dolls for people to vent their anger about what’s happening to them and in the world around them; or to advance their writing, speaking and political careers.

Because of that, I don’t think that anyone who is doing honest and responsible criticism of a religion would call it “criticism.”))

 

[icehorse]

((There is something that I would call honest and responsible criticism of a religion, but I’m not sure that I’ve ever seen that in public debating. Everything that I’ve seen bring called “criticism” of a religion in public debating looks to me like excuses and camouflage for using some people as scapegoats, effigies and voodoo dolls for people to vent their anger about what’s happening to them and in the world around them; or to advance their writing, speaking and political careers.

Because of that, I don’t think that anyone who is doing honest and responsible criticism of a religion would call it “criticism.”))

hmmm.. I feel like I've seen a lot of honest and responsible criticism of religion. Maybe our standards are different, or maybe we've seen different stuff. Here's an example from my memory of some good criticism:

 

[Jim]

I forgot to update what I'm thinking about the forums. It looks to me now like they're mostly being used for entertainment and social interaction, which makes good sense to me and looks good to me. Part of that is a roleplaying game where people pretend that they're debating about what's happening in the offline world around us and what other people should be doing about it. It's different from formal debating in that each person makes his own rules, and keeps his own score for everyone in the debate. Also, no knowledge of formal logic is required or even desired. The material for the debating comes from media stories and faction propaganda, with no fact checking required. In fact, actual real-world facts might spoil the game for everyone.

There might be other kinds of roleplaying games in the forums besides that. I haven't spent much time outside of the debate forums.

As I said before, for various reasons, using the forums for entertainment and social action might be the best ways of using them for most people most of the time. My biggest objection is against using media stories and faction propaganda as materials for the debating roleplaying, but I don't expect that to ever change. What I think will change will be people using the forums more and more consciously and systematically to get ideas and encouragement from each other all across the world, and across all the delusional dividing lines that people are currently imagining. Also, the spontaneous acts of service that I imagine have always been happening here will eventually start to multiply and evolve through various stages to make the community life in the forums more and more healthy, happy and loving for every person in them.

 

[Jim]

I would like people to know how I think about my way of thinking. I use the word “God” in my thinking, in some different ways. One way is as the imaginary creator in an analogy of the world around me as being created by someone. Another way is as an imaginary person that I’m in a personal relationship with, in my relationship with the world around me.

I don’t think of any of that as the only right way, or even the best way for all purposes, of thinking about the world around us. I think of all the ways that people think about the world as being like different flat map projections of the earth’s surface. Each projection is better or easier to use than the others, for some purposes. Another way I think about the different views is as being like rectangular and polar coordinates. Another way is like orthographic projections. Another way is like Norton and Thevenin equivalents. Another is like the wave model and particle model for the transmission of light.

 

[Jim]

Maybe our standards are different ...

Maybe so. What Hitchens is doing in that video doesn’t look honest and responsible to me. Where I would expect to find honest and responsible criticism of a religion would be in some articles and books by professors and students in religious studies, that are not best sellers.

 

[Jim]

I’m learning to remember that no matter what a discussion looks like to me, in relation to my purposes it’s always and only entertainment, social interaction and roleplaying. That might help me avoid a lot of frustration and disillusionment.

 

[Jim]

I'm fuming, brooding and sulking.

Well ... I need to have more sympathy.

 

[Jim]

Now I’m feeling sick. The ugliness and shameless depravity of it is overwhelming me.

 

[Jim]

... and the hypocrisy and boldfaced dishonesty ... stay away from those places.

 

[Jim]

and shameless apathy and indifference to what is happening to other people ...

 

[Jim]

It nauseates me to see people socializing and glorifying themselves in echo chambers revolving around stigmatizing some category of people, under banners of “tolerance” and “inclusiveness,” and then putting on innocent hurt faces when someone objects to it. It gives me goosebumps to see people socializing and entertaining themselves around human suffering, like vultures and hyenas feasting on dying animals. I’m not going to be timid about that any more, and I won’t be shamed or intimidated into silence about it.

 

[Jim]

I can sympathize with people wanting to stigmatize people who stigmatize them, but when I see them doing that in hypocritical, dishonest and irresponsible ways that are helping to perpetuate the worst kinds of cruelty and violence, and threatening to blow up the world, I won't be timid about denouncing that, and I won't be shamed or intimidated into silence about it, or driven away by any stupid, decades-old, worn-out, "Maybe you don't belong here" line.

 

[Jim]

"You're wrong to be judging other people." ROTFL! From people who by their own admission pass their time stigmatizing and vilifying entire categories of people, as a way of socializing and entertaining themselves and others.

 

[Jim]

I'm not searching for people doing that, so that I can denounce it. I keep getting pulled into it by misleading thread titles that look like something that might interest me. This last time I ignored one like that for a long time, but finally I decided to give it a chance, and it turned out to worse than I thought, worse than what I thought I was prepared for.

 

[Quagmire]

Nobody here understands me!

Well what do you expect when you talk like this: Doze Annie buddy hare spake Anguish?

 

[Jim]

Clouds of smoke and dust to hide what they’re doing even from themselves.

 

[Jim]

It's so ironic when people respond to my disapproval of what they're doing by preaching at me about judging other people.

 

[Jim]

I'm thinking again how evil and depraved it looks to me, in a world with so much grief and in so much danger from animosities across religious divides, for people to be socializing and entertaining themselves and others in ways that they know are helping to perpetuate and even intensify those animosities.

(edited to add some missing words, and to add "and others")

 

[sayak83]

I'm thinking again how evil and depraved it looks to me, in a world with so much grief and in so much danger from animosities across religious divides, to be socializing and entertaining themselves in ways that they know are helping to perpetuate and even intensify those animosities.

What might interest you? I can create a thread on Hinduism or Buddhism geared for a person outside the faith to understand it a bit better. It will be my take on the religions though....

 

[Jim]

What might interest you? I can create a thread on Hinduism or Buddhism geared for a person outside the faith to understand it a bit better. It will be my take on the religions though....

That's a generous and kind way to respond to my anathematizing post!

I'll be thinking about that. What I think I would like to do now is learn more about the community service that people here, and the communities that they're part of, and other members of those communities, are involved in. I'll be in and out of these forums, so it might be a while before I continue with that.