Noah's flood story, did it happen?

[tas8831]

Thats where the Christian Bible believer goes out and check for themself, find that what science says, was written in the Bible long before they discovered their facts.

Odd that no actual examples were provided.

 

[tas8831]

Wow!

Isn't "creation science" amazing!!!???

 

[tas8831]

Sooo, who said that C14 dating is the only dating mechanism in history? Brother, how about K–Ar, Rb–Sr and U–Pb systems? Who in the modern world speaks of C14 for dating earth and refute that in order to prove that Noah and his boat was in an era where there were no humans? Lol. Maybe Noah was an amiba?

And they do not even appear to have heard of fission-track dating.

 

[tas8831]

Noah was 600 years old with the flood, and lived another 350 years.

Impossible.

The Flood happened in about 1650 after Adam and Eve were created.

Fallacy of begging the question.

In a world where there was little cosmic radiation, and no Ultra violet rays damaging life, as well as a total abscense of C14 radiation, the Earth was a tropical rainforrest from one end to the other.

Absent valid, verifiable data/sources, I count that as pure fabrication. C14 occurs naturally.

Plantlife would have been immencely thick and lush, and man would have lived for hundreds of years.

Assertion devoid of evidence.

Bevcause the Earth had no C14, People did not age as we do today.

2 unsupported assertions in a row.

After the flood, as the atmosphere cleared up, and light was seen to refract, a rainbow appeared.

No evidence for a flood.
Light refracts regardless of floods.

Now, with such descriptions, one can understand that :

• because the atmosphere cleared up, C14 production increased, which resulted in people ageing quicker.
• Taking the description of the ages of the Biblical ancients, one will see that human ages deteriorated after the flood, and on a graph, one can easily notice how human ages went down on a curve to about 70 Years of age.
• Due to the change of the atmosphere, any plantlife that fossilised, and animal life feeding on plants and other sources living from such food, will have a very low count of C14.
• This will render an animal, or plant fossil, with organic material tested for c14, as very old.

Hogwash.

Why, because when they lived around 4500 years ago, there was no c14, and testing these residues will give you dates in excess of 35 000 years.

Other than bland unsupported assertions, explain why there was no C14.

Therefore, there is no way to tell what age a bone, wood, or rock is, if we try to use c14 on any carbon sources.

False.

Actually, scientists are growing C14 free plants as a foodsource knowing it will increase our lifespan.
Chris williams wrote a document where he showed that C14 poses huge health risks.

A "document" that is apparently no longer available. One that does not deny the natural formation of C14.

Then Plicht and J. P. M. Beijers came up with a strawman telling us that to get this much C14 in your body, will be as eating 400 Kg of soyabeans for a year.
Nice to read here.
Carbon 14 in Food
what licht and J. P. M. Beijers neglected to say, is that
1. we dont want to die in a year, but divide that C14 up in 70 years, and add cosmic radiation and ultra violet, and we have real evidence that it all contributes to bad health.
Furthermore, No One said that they wanted to prove that the danger limit of C14 must be reached, to die!
Nope, what Williams said was, C14 reduces your lifespan.

Not in the linked article.

Therefore, it is clear.
Noah and the people living after him were for the first time exposed to C14, and other radiation.

Therefore, C14 is in itself evidence that the Biblical description of history, is scientifically correct,

Absurdities on top of fantasies.

Rejected as nonsense.

 

[tas8831]

Y'all are running around in circles & imho Issac Asimov (no starry eyed religious fanatic he) wrote up a marvelous description of the validity of Noah's flood. I'd be happy to post it here if u want.

The Isaac Asimov that said this:

"And I think that the account of a worldwide flood, as opposed, say, to a flood limited to the Tigris-Euphrates region, is certainly wrong."

"If we insist on the Bible's being literally true, then we must abandon the scientific method totally and completely.
There's no way that we can at the same time try to discover the truth by means of observation and reason and also accept the Bible as true."​

???

Or who wrote this:

"This, according to the Bible, was a world-wide deluge, but there is no​

record of any such phenomenon, of course. The Egyptian civilization,
for instance, was in a particularly flourishing state at this very time and
was building its pyramids. Nor do the Egyptian records speak of any
floods other than the annual overflow of the Nile, as far as we know.
This is not to say, however, that the Biblical story of the Flood was
not based on some actual, but local, flood in Sumerian history."
​

Nice write-ups.

 

[tas8831]

What about termites (Order Blattodea), ants, bees (Order Hymenoptera) and any other eusocial insects? What counts as two. Two termites or two colonies? Or was it just one colony each? Nothing is mentioned about them in the Bible. Any thoughts on how you can have the many species of termite and carpenter ant on a vessel made of wood? Not to mention, the many, many other species of wood boring insects.

Of course, those insects may be of benefit in opening up additional needed space as time went on. Of course, radical, catastrophic marine vehicle remodeling may not be the ideal situation when you have no available anchorage.

Then let's consider some of the other fun and interesting insect species that we all know and love. Nearly 1,100 species of paper wasps and that does not include yellow jackets and hornets. All that would require very special conditions, food and needs. Not to mention that many have a disturbing habit of becoming agitated and stingy. Especially, that Asian giant hornet.

Of course, the Hymenoptera includes the honeybee and a significant number of other bees. Many of which are ground nesting. I imagine a fair quantity of various soils would have to be included in the cargo of the ark.

2,000 species of termites and 150,000 species of Hymenoptera on the ark with numerous other animals seems plausible. I think they could find room if they left out all the other species of insects and just hoped some of those made it on their own.

That story just sounds more and more reasonable the more I think about it.

Errr... ummm.... that is... they were all on the ark as eggs! Yeah, thats it!

 

[sayak83]

Oh yes, I checked up on how the dating was done on for instance Catal Hüyül.
Carbon 14 on charcoal and bone fragments.
Now, C14 dating is actually in support to the Biblical description that the Atmosphere did not reach C14 C12 equilibrium up untill a thousand years after the flood.
That means that if something lived say 3500 years ago, C14 will show it to be 12 000 years of age.
Sory to bust the bubble, but I have yet to find an highly educated Phycisist to even discuss the propability that using the Biblical propability of a wet Atmosphere that changed into a clear one allowing cosmic radiation to enter, to take such a factor into consideration.
Catal Hüyül actually confirms the Biblical event, and is not pre Noahs Flood, but about 1 000 years younger.

Did you see how the ages of people in the Biblical description depreciated due to C14 radiation, and other radiation such as Ultraviolet, ect?
As soon as the atmosphere allowed entry to these rays, people aged faster.It is perhaps one of the best scientific models to show how the atmosphere reached C14 equilibrium.



View attachment 50897

It is easy too see how this graph can actually fit in with Genesis.

Scientists prefer not to engage with nonsense. Get a phd in Geology, Publish your ideas in Science Or Nature. Then we will discuss.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Hold on now, the crack experts at AiG say it is "spiritually" inherited!

AiG you say. Well, that settles it for me.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Errr... ummm.... that is... they were all on the ark as eggs! Yeah, thats it!

It could have been cell cultures.

 

[Pete in Panama]

A Biochemist? I'm not really sure why he would be able to write anything about the rocks deposited after floods. What's his qualifications in geology?

You're absolutely right! No doubt about it.

That was a rhetorical question wasn't it? I mean, you did not appear to be interested in new info although since things are not always what they appear to be pse correct me if I err.

 

[Pete in Panama]

The Isaac Asimov that said this:

"And I think that the account of a worldwide flood, as opposed, say, to a flood limited to the Tigris-Euphrates region, is certainly wrong."

"If we insist on the Bible's being literally true, then we must abandon the scientific method totally and completely.
There's no way that we can at the same time try to discover the truth by means of observation and reason and also accept the Bible as true."​

???

Or who wrote this:

"This, according to the Bible, was a world-wide deluge, but there is no​

record of any such phenomenon, of course. The Egyptian civilization,
for instance, was in a particularly flourishing state at this very time and
was building its pyramids. Nor do the Egyptian records speak of any
floods other than the annual overflow of the Nile, as far as we know.
This is not to say, however, that the Biblical story of the Flood was
not based on some actual, but local, flood in Sumerian history."​

Nice write-ups.

The quotes in the interview (imho) need to be considered more a reflection of the interviewer's thoughts, but the quotes from his book (more of mho) should be taken as a whole.

Please note that Asimov begins saying--

The most influential, the most published, the most widely read book in the history of the world is the Bible. No other book has been so studied and so analyzed and it is a tribute to the complexity of the Bible and the eagerness of its students that after thousands of years of study there are still endless books that can be written about it.​

--and the passage you cited about Egypt eventually continued to an explanation--

With time, as the story is told and retold it is dramatically inevitable that a flood which spreads out over parts of Sumeria and neighboring regions with great loss of life will be said to have covered "all the world," meaning the entire region. It is further inevitable that later generations, with a much broader knowledge of geography, would accept the phrase "all the world" literally and reduce themselves to needless speculations on the impossible.

(A well-known example of this is the statement frequently met with among the ancient historians that Alexander the Great "conquered the world" and then wept for "other worlds to conquer." What was meant was merely that Alexander had conquered a large part of those sections of the world which were well known to the Greeks of the time. Actually, Alexander conquered only 4 or 5 per cent of the earth's land surface and had plenty of room in which to extend those conquests.)
​

So it boils down to what we're into. If we want to squabble then have at it. If we want to understand what's being said then we take a different approach.

 

[ecco]

Yeah - it's weird. Unless - of course - God were somehow involved.

Well, there you have it.
How did Noah build a boat big enough for representatives of all animal kinds? GodDidIt!
How did all the animals get to where Noah built the ark? GodDidIt!
How did all the animals get fed for forty days and nights? GodDidIt!
How did a comparatively small, unpowered boat, survive the worst seas imaginable? GodDidIt!
How did all the animals get to China and Hawaii and Australia? GodDidIt!

There is really no need to look at other ancient texts and oral histories.
There is no need to discuss how impossible the entire story is.

All you need to know is: GodDidIt![/QUOTE]

 

[ecco]

Sory to bust the bubble, but I have yet to find an highly educated Phycisist to even discuss the propability that using the Biblical propability of a wet Atmosphere that changed into a clear one allowing cosmic radiation to enter, to take such a factor into consideration.

How many highly educated physicists have you ever met? No highly educated physicist would spend more than two minutes listening to your nonsense.

As soon as the atmosphere allowed entry to these rays, people aged faster.It is perhaps one of the best scientific models to show how the atmosphere reached C14 equilibrium.

In your humble opinion. Do you have anything to back that claim up?

Sorry, but the links you supplied does not invalidate my facts.

What you mean is that you ignore actual science and just go with your biblical beliefs.





I didn't see any response to the post by the actual geologist @Derek500 from SA who completely refuted your claims about the Drakensberg Mountains.

 

[ecco]

I might remind you all how all the Geologists laughed at J Harlan Bretz when he proposed this huge flood, only to be proven correct and to receive the Penrose Medal, the Geological Society of America's highest award, in 1979, at the age of 96. After this award, he told his son: "All my enemies are dead, so I have no one to gloat over."
Bretz was scolded by the greatest of snobbery by the scientists of his day for an attempt to give evidence against the prevailing view of uniformitarianism. They hated the fact that there might be any evidence of a catastrophic event that changed the Geology.

You are not the first Creationist to try to take the Bretz incident out of context.

The reason his theory was discarded had little to do with scientific snobbery. It had everything to do with the fact that Bretz could not come up with a rational explanation for the source of the water. He never claimed it was your Bible's Flood. He just had no explanation. Period.

It took him and Pardee until 1970 to be able to show definitively where the water could have come from. Their findings were then accepted.

Rather than disparaging science, as you argue this does, it is an example of science working the way it should. The fact that you think otherwise says a lot about your opinions of science.

 

[ecco]

In a world where there was little cosmic radiation, and no Ultra violet rays damaging life, as well as a total abscense of C14 radiation, the Earth was a tropical rainforrest from one end to the other.

Oops! Did you just assert that the earth has "ends"? Spheres do not have ends.

 

[ecco]

Y'all are running around in circles & imho Issac Asimov (no starry eyed religious fanatic he) wrote up a marvelous description of the validity of Noah's flood. I'd be happy to post it here if u want.

Yes. Please do.

Let's see how it compares to what Asimov actually believed:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Global_flood

Isaac Asimov posited a hypothesis that a large meteorite struck the Persian Gulf and created a tsunami that washed over the lowlands and killed a lot of people.[67] This is feasible, and it is the sort of thing that could be verified by geologists.
​

Or, are you referring to this:

Thiotimoline - Wikipedia

Asimov speculated that Noah's flood might have been brought about by thiotimoline experiments among the ancient Sumerians.​

 

[ecco]

Errr... ummm.... that is... they were all on the ark as eggs! Yeah, thats it!

Hardboiled and then Flash Frozen.

Hardboiled by demi-god Mercury by flying them to his planet and then Flash Frozen by demi-god Pluto by flying them to his planet. This was done with precision so that the eggs would thaw in exactly 41 days.

 

[Pete in Panama]

Yes. Please do.

Let's see how it compares to what Asimov actually believed:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Global_flood

Isaac Asimov posited a hypothesis that a large meteorite struck the Persian Gulf and created a tsunami that washed over the lowlands and killed a lot of people.[67] This is feasible, and it is the sort of thing that could be verified by geologists.
​

Or, are you referring to this:

Thiotimoline - Wikipedia

Asimov speculated that Noah's flood might have been brought about by thiotimoline experiments among the ancient Sumerians.​

Please note that I was referring to what Asimov said & you're quoting like, wikipedia quoting Thiotimoline quoting Asimov. What Asimov himself directly said in his Noah's Ark thingee (from Asimov's Bible book) is--

"This, according to the Bible, was a world-wide deluge, but there is no record of any such phenomenon, of course. The Egyptian civilization, for instance, was in a particularly flourishing state at this very time and was building its pyramids. Nor do the Egyptian records speak of any floods other than the annual overflow of the Nile, as far as we know. This is not to say, however, that the Biblical story of the Flood was not based on some actual, but local, flood in Sumerian history."

--and then he proceeded to clarify saying--

With time, as the story is told and retold it is dramatically inevitable that a flood which spreads out over parts of Sumeria and neighboring regions with great loss of life will be said to have covered "all the world," meaning the entire region. It is further inevitable that later generations, with a much broader knowledge of geography, would accept the phrase "all the world" literally and reduce themselves to needless speculations on the impossible.

(A well-known example of this is the statement frequently met with among the ancient historians that Alexander the Great "conquered the world" and then wept for "other worlds to conquer." What was meant was merely that Alexander had conquered a large part of those sections of the world which were well known to the Greeks of the time. Actually, Alexander conquered only 4 or 5 per cent of the earth's land surface and had plenty of room in which to extend those conquests.)

You've got to remember that Asimov was no theist, but at the same time he was realistic enough to have a profound respect for the Bible which he described as follows--

The most influential, the most published, the most widely read book in the history of the world is the Bible. No other book has been so studied and so analyzed and it is a tribute to the complexity of the Bible and the eagerness of its students that after thousands of years of study there are still endless books that can be written about it.

 

[gnostic]

After the flood, as the atmosphere cleared up, and light was seen to refract, a rainbow appeared.

Rainbow can appear at time whenever there are water droplets in the air, and some sunlights managed to shine through breaks in the clouds, hitting these droplets at certain angles.

There need not be catastrophic flood for light refractions to cause a rainbow. I saw a couple of them, recently about a month ago, during a very brief shower.

Refraction of lights can occur at any time, including at waterfalls, where rainbows could be seen, when it was completely sunny, and no rain or shower. The waterfalls cause sprays of tiny droplets be present in the air and sunlights shine on them.

Light can cause refraction and the rainbow effect without a single water droplet, by shining light through glass or transparent crystal, like a prism for instance.

 

[rational experiences]

Science argues spiritually against science.

Conscience in human awareness is natural.
Con science.
Consciousness.

O earth as a God thesis entity was a human scientific thesis. What is science? Human believed creation themes.

A thesis to think using words owning descriptions

Thoughts words stories not reality.

Known said by other human thinking also.

Scientist says bible is not reality as science is not reality. Overlooked as relative advice.

Scientist who argued against science is naturally aware living kind caring human versus a destroyer human knowledge mentality of good and evil.

Flood did occur it was witnessed as day counting is lived by existing living humans counting the day. A humans experience.

How the info is inferred a human argument.

Arguing does not make anyone correct.

As natural owns all status first. You are all just humans.

Present living life two human parents two human babies our life story always is present and presence.

There is no other form of argument.

Basic common human owned sense.

Atmosphere equal state. Living should only own one equal human genetic condition. Human. Human healthy.

Basic commonsense has to prevail first.

You then see DNA diversified. Body type changes in human. Language changed

Medical genesis genetics human has to be present to claim the status human genetics irradiated changed. Was once the exact same living DNA human parent for everyone on earth.

The teaching. We are all family scattered and changed irradiated changed tongue language by hearing loss and changed chemical mind states

The stated life attacked sacrificed teaching.

Earth flooding. Cause. Ground effect.
God earth stone unsealed and irradiation an atmospheric attack occurred to colder gases in space. Heavens.

Mass ground water evaporation occurs. Sea of son changed. Cooling gases whilst ground floods is an effect.

Science statement. Science says I know why it floods. Condition science thesis is Noah. Why it floods.

Is that status in science too difficult to accept as a commonsense human science I know everything human statement.

Story....scientist. I know why flooding of the ground is caused. The preaching.

Instead of you inferring some great God act for scientific power gain a human irradiated saved in cooling would be grateful for that God act.

Life saved.

Brain intense chemical burning is prickling crown of thorns. I endured it. Was most grateful when it stopped.

Mountains are above our heads.

Flooding put water our life spirit into a cross reaction above our heads.

Jesus image man human cross seen in clouds image above our heads.

Mass ground water evaporation seen.

Flooding event notified why life was put under the flood as above the mountains tower. Mountains where UFO ark radiation mass landed was above us in the heavens.

The flood causes were taken above our head. Put over the mountain peak a science human description of events of causes.

Clouds formed images emerged when flooding ceased a witnessed phenomena. Animal and human images still seen in clouds today above the mountain landing.

Happened all above our heads in the mountains above the tips of the mountain. A teaching of causes.

First human theism for science practice conversion ideals?

Status.....A once sun earth attacked history realisation. Holes formed as tunnels bored out.. Loss of crystal mass into volcanic liquid. Mass flooding earth sealed saved by water.

UFO ark status was converting mountain tip still sticking out above the water line. Flat top mountains caused reality. Knowledge wisdom how to do science converting earth mass.

The theme why human science is the destroyer of life on earth theme.

Known. Is human wisdom. To be wise to save self from self human deceit.