no faith vs wrong faith

[Iti oj]

No: history makes clear which they are.

We include the following on the list for sure (in no particular order):

Buddhism, the Babi Faith, Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Judaism, the Baha'i Faith, Christianity, and Islam.

Peace,

Bruce

are you the UU of monotheism?

 

[Erebus]

which is worse not believing in God/Allah?YWH or beiliving in the wrong form of God or another god(s) all together.

Pascals wager always made me wonder if the safe bet is on God because if you wrong so what but i god exist and you do not believe then the consequences are dire, but what about choosing the wrong god? Wouldn't atheism be the safe bet this way you do not risk offending the god by worshiping the wrong one?

Speaking from my view of my own gods I very much doubt it bothers them how many people believe in them or why. Most of my gods are perfectly happy to help if you need it and equally happy to let you fall if you don't pull your weight. Harsh perhaps, but it's the only way to learn.
I don't suspect it matters to them who asks for help and who they let fall.

 

[Dena]

which is worse not believing in God/Allah?YWH or believing in the wrong form of God or another god(s) all together.

I don't think either is necessarily bad. It depends on the circumstances. Do I think Jews should worship Jesus? No. But for others, it's fine. I don't really see much of a problem with atheism.

 

[crystalonyx]

which is worse not believing in God/Allah?YWH or beiliving in the wrong form of God or another god(s) all together.

Pascals wager always made me wonder if the safe bet is on God because if you wrong so what but i god exist and you do not believe then the consequences are dire, but what about choosing the wrong god? Wouldn't atheism be the safe bet this way you do not risk offending the god by worshiping the wrong one?

Turning belief into a roulette wheel may not be the best approach. Much better to use logic and reason to come to some belief.

 

[Nakosis]

Turning belief into a roulette wheel may not be the best approach. Much better to use logic and reason to come to some belief.

Who's logic and reason? Yours or mine?

Logic and reason aren't universally applied.

With faith you rely on someone else's experience because you lack your own.

Otherwise one is left to rely on their own experiences. Where we have experiences in common we can perhaps share an understanding. Where we don't, it's a crap-shoot.

Logic and reason can develop very persuasive arguments, even where the logic and reason are faulty. Who can bothered to test every logical/reasonable argument that comes their way?

I think in the end one is left to rely on personal experience and make the best determination they can. I suspect any method of validation is just a justification of that.

 

[Neophyte]

which is worse not believing in God/Allah?YWH or beiliving in the wrong form of God or another god(s) all together.

Pascals wager always made me wonder if the safe bet is on God because if you wrong so what but i god exist and you do not believe then the consequences are dire, but what about choosing the wrong god? Wouldn't atheism be the safe bet this way you do not risk offending the god by worshiping the wrong one?

I think the answer would really depend on which religion was right. For instance, if reincarnation is real then believing in the wrong god makes no difference. If the god of the Bible is true then believing in anything else would send you to Hell. So we see quite a difference in the final results. So it just depends on which religion is right.

 

[javajo]

I meant it wasn't a whimsical or flimsy choice.

maybe Jesus did die on the cross but he was not son of god/god.... then any host of other religious can be true.

And if Jesus did die on the cross and is the Son of God, then all the other religions would be false. The Bible states clearly that he is the Son of God and died on the cross. All the disciples died proclaiming this. I know I would not die for something I knew to be a lie, so I believe them.

 

[Iti oj]

And if Jesus did die on the cross and is the Son of God, then all the other religions would be false. The Bible states clearly that he is the Son of God and died on the cross. All the disciples died proclaiming this. I know I would not die for something I knew to be a lie, so I believe them.

can you validate that with a peer reviewed paper?a historical document? anything that validates either claim outside of the Bible? who about his birth for that matter?


see so many reasons to keep questioning and searching. why do i have to make up my mind? i either i keep searching or i write it off completely.

 

[Nakosis]

And if Jesus did die on the cross and is the Son of God, then all the other religions would be false. The Bible states clearly that he is the Son of God and died on the cross. All the disciples died proclaiming this. I know I would not die for something I knew to be a lie, so I believe them.

I think it's reasonable to accept Jesus believe he was the Son of God. Also reasonable to accept the disciple believed this. Were they right? I don't know, I wasn't there.

You want to rely on their claims, that's fine. But why rely on their claims versus the claims of Krishna or Buddha? You got to ask yourself if it is reasonable to accept one and reject the other.

If you are satisfied with the answer who can tell you otherwise?

However do you think God is justified expecting people to trust the claims of someone they don't know/never met. Then further being judged for trusting the wrong claims?

 

[Nakosis]

I think the answer would really depend on which religion was right. For instance, if reincarnation is real then believing in the wrong god makes no difference. If the god of the Bible is true then believing in anything else would send you to Hell. So we see quite a difference in the final results. So it just depends on which religion is right.

Reincarnation versus resurrection. You know the idea of resurrection was likely introduce to the Judeans by the Persians. Reincarnation makes more sense as far as a just universe goes don't you think?

Imagine Jesus as an enlightened soul ready to leave this plane of existence. Tried to teach the rest of us a thing or two before leaving. The best we could come up with is Christianity. I don't think you can blame Jesus for Christianity.

When enlightened souls come along people usually end up trying to make a God out of them or kill them. Doesn't say much for the human race as a whole.

 

[javajo]

can you validate that with a peer reviewed paper?a historical document? anything that validates either claim outside of the Bible? who about his birth for that matter?


see so many reasons to keep questioning and searching. why do i have to make up my mind? i either i keep searching or i write it off completely.

There are extra=biblical accounts of the death of Christ written by unbelievers. The death of Christ is an historical fact. I do wish you well on your questioning and searching.

I think it's reasonable to accept Jesus believe he was the Son of God. Also reasonable to accept the disciple believed this. Were they right? I don't know, I wasn't there.

You want to rely on their claims, that's fine. But why rely on their claims versus the claims of Krishna or Buddha? You got to ask yourself if it is reasonable to accept one and reject the other.

If you are satisfied with the answer who can tell you otherwise?

However do you think God is justified expecting people to trust the claims of someone they don't know/never met. Then further being judged for trusting the wrong claims?

The disciples died proclaiming the resurrection. Not one of them recanted to avoid death. That is powerful testimony. The Bible is the most copied and examined piece of literature in the world. Krishna and Buddha are still in their graves and did not make the claims Jesus did. I am quite convinced Jesus is the way, myself. I can only tell you that is what I have come to believe, personally and that I really do believe Jesus is the answer. That's just my belief.

 

[Photonic]

There are extra=biblical accounts of the death of Christ written by unbelievers. The death of Christ is an historical fact. I do wish you well on your questioning and searching.

The disciples died proclaiming the resurrection. Not one of them recanted to avoid death. That is powerful testimony. The Bible is the most copied and examined piece of literature in the world. Krishna and Buddha are still in their graves and did not make the claims Jesus did. I am quite convinced Jesus is the way, myself. I can only tell you that is what I have come to believe, personally and that I really do believe Jesus is the answer. That's just my belief.

And where are these documents?

I could claim that vampires are a historical fact.

 

[javajo]

And where are these documents?

I could claim that vampires are a historical fact.

There are clearly at least 19 early pagan writers who refer to Jesus as a real historical figure. Must I elaborate?

 

[Iti oj]

There are extra=biblical accounts of the death of Christ written by unbelievers. The death of Christ is an historical fact. I do wish you well on your questioning and searching.

Thank you. could you link me or tell me what to look up? Never once seen any validation.

 

[Iti oj]

There are clearly at least 19 early pagan writers who refer to Jesus as a real historical figure. Must I elaborate?

yes please do.....

 

[BruceDLimber]

are you the UU of monotheism?

No, we're the Baha'i Faith (as my message headings should make clear).

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Photonic]

There are clearly at least 19 early pagan writers who refer to Jesus as a real historical figure. Must I elaborate?

Yes.

 

[javajo]

Tacitus, a great historian of Rome
Suetonious, another historian
Pliny the Younger, a leader of the Roman Emire
Epictetus
Lucian, wrote an entire work about Jesus
Aristides
Galenus
Lampridius
Dio Cassius, wrote a whole book attacking Christianity
Emeritus
Annianus
Marcellinus
Eunapius
Zosimus
Porphyry, Hieracles, and Julian the Apostate wrote whole works.

Tactitus, the most famous Roman historian, wrote of Jesus:

founded the Christian sect
put to death by Pontius Pilate
Christianity began in Judea and spread despite Christ's death
Christianity encountered much hatred and vast multitudes of Christians were put to death in Rome by Nero as late as A.D. 64
Jerusalem temple was destroyed fulfilling Jesus' prophecy, Josephus wrote of those events too.

Celsus gives far more details about the life of Christ...but I ain't typing all that, research a bit!

Skeptics Answered by D James Kennedy, p 73-75

 

[waitasec]

There are extra=biblical accounts of the death of Christ written by unbelievers. The death of Christ is an historical fact. I do wish you well on your questioning and searching.

not contemporary accounts though...

 

[waitasec]

The disciples died proclaiming the resurrection. Not one of them recanted to avoid death. That is powerful testimony. The Bible is the most copied and examined piece of literature in the world. Krishna and Buddha are still in their graves and did not make the claims Jesus did. I am quite convinced Jesus is the way, myself. I can only tell you that is what I have come to believe, personally and that I really do believe Jesus is the answer. That's just my belief.

a baseless claim no less.