• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Nineteen Eighty-Four

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
“War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.”

“Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality was tacitly denied by their philosophy. The heresy of heresies was common sense.”

“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.”

“Don’t you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it.


“It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words.”

“Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. ...”

“But it was alright, everything was alright, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.”

― George Orwell, 1984
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
“War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.”

“Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality was tacitly denied by their philosophy. The heresy of heresies was common sense.”

“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.”

“Don’t you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it.


“It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words.”

“Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. ...”

“But it was alright, everything was alright, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.”

― George Orwell, 1984
Yes, we see some of this coming to pass. We also see coming to pass a bit of what Aldous Huxley imagined in Brave New World.
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
“War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.”

“Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality was tacitly denied by their philosophy. The heresy of heresies was common sense.”

“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.”

“Don’t you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it.


“It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words.”

“Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. ...”

“But it was alright, everything was alright, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.”

― George Orwell, 1984

Here are some "Crash Course" videos from YouTube that maybe of interest in exploring ideas and aspects of 1984.

Spoiler Alert: "Now some dystopia's tend to end with the overthrow of the horrible government, but Orwell's ends with the bad guys and/or pigs winning". :D


 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
Yes, we see some of this coming to pass. We also see coming to pass a bit of what Aldous Huxley imagined in Brave New World.

The Big 3: Orwell's 1984, Huxley's Brave New World, and Bradbury's Farenheit 451 all have elements that are essentially features of our modern society. Not just technology, like TVs capable of government surveillance and earbuds sheltering us from reality, but specifically in how segments of the population are kept happy in order to control them.

-Huxley's folks had soma, sex, and hypnogogic programming.
-Bradbury's denizens had entertainment in the form of constant music, fast cars and freedom, and TV screens the size of rooms.
-Orwell's proles guzzled beer and crunched lottery numbers.

In all three, literature is controlled in order to prevent independent thought.

In our current capitalistic society, we have a balancing act of enjoying our free consumerism while also guarding against commercial exploitation for control. I can't help but think of Facebook, where our own obsession with it cannot be overcome even with the knowledge that our habits are recorded and exploited commercially. Or smart technology, which we are fully aware is recorded and analyzed by the NSA. We could easily as a society decide to simply quit, but the draw of socialization and convenient tech is likely to draw us into these dystopian scenarios.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
The Big 3: Orwell's 1984, Huxley's Brave New World, and Bradbury's Farenheit 451 all have elements that are essentially features of our modern society. Not just technology, like TVs capable of government surveillance and earbuds sheltering us from reality, but specifically in how segments of the population are kept happy in order to control them.

-Huxley's folks had soma, sex, and hypnogogic programming.
-Bradbury's denizens had entertainment in the form of constant music, fast cars and freedom, and TV screens the size of rooms.
-Orwell's proles guzzled beer and crunched lottery numbers.

In all three, literature is controlled in order to prevent independent thought.

In our current capitalistic society, we have a balancing act of enjoying our free consumerism while also guarding against commercial exploitation for control. I can't help but think of Facebook, where our own obsession with it cannot be overcome even with the knowledge that our habits are recorded and exploited commercially. Or smart technology, which we are fully aware is recorded and analyzed by the NSA. We could easily as a society decide to simply quit, but the draw of socialization and convenient tech is likely to draw us into these dystopian scenarios.
And we have Trump and Putin working hard at undermining the very concept of truth.......
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
And we have Trump and Putin working hard at undermining the very concept of truth.......

Yes, the constant propaganda is an attempt to create a new reality to replace the actual.

“Don’t you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it.” -- Orwell
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Yes, the constant propaganda is an attempt to create a new reality to replace the actual.

“Don’t you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it.” -- Orwell
That's different, to do with impoverishment of language. But Putin and Trump like to put out numerous conflicting accounts of things, so that nobody can work out which version, if any, is true. The aim is to make people give up trying to find out the truth and even come to think there is no such thing.

What else can giving that Freedom medal, or whatever it was, to Limbaugh signify?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
And we have Trump and Putin working hard at undermining the very concept of truth.......
My favorite truth modification goes way back to before Obamacare
was passed. There was all this gnashing of teeth over on the right
about "death panels". I heard a piece on NPR debunking such
outrageous claims. But later they mentioned "end of life panels".
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
My favorite truth modification goes way back to before Obamacare
was passed. There was all this gnashing of teeth over on the right
about "death panels". I heard a piece on NPR debunking such
outrageous claims. But later they mentioned "end of life panels".
I remember this outrageous lie: It was told about the UK National Health Service, by people like Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin.

But with Putin and Trump it's different: they put out numerous different versions of the same thing, to confuse and undermine confidence in truth itself.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I remember this outrageous lie: It was told about the UK National Health Service, by people like Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin.

But with Putin and Trump it's different: they put out numerous different versions of the same thing, to confuse and undermine confidence in truth itself.
The thread seems about lying by word
manipulation rather than mere false claims.
My example was to describe a thing in a manner
claimed to be different because of the name.
Give us some similarly delicious examples.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
The thread seems about lying by word
manipulation rather than mere false claims.
My example was to describe a thing in a manner
claimed to be different because of the name.
Give us some similarly delicious examples.
Well, to be topical, on coronavirus: " "It's going to disappear. One day it's like a miracle, it will disappear"
"... from our shores, you know, it could get worse before it gets better. Could maybe go away. We'll see what happens. Nobody really knows."

With Putin, the UK government worked out that Russian media put out 27 different versions of the story of the Salisbury nerve agent poisoning, in the space of a fortnight.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
Well, to be topical, on coronavirus: " "It's going to disappear. One day it's like a miracle, it will disappear"
"... from our shores, you know, it could get worse before it gets better. Could maybe go away. We'll see what happens. Nobody really knows."

With Putin, the UK government worked out that Russian media put out 27 different versions of the story of the Salisbury nerve agent poisoning, in the space of a fortnight.
27 versions. Impressive demonstration of a technique. Useful to know what's happening to us as a nation.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Well, to be topical, on coronavirus: " "It's going to disappear. One day it's like a miracle, it will disappear"
"... from our shores, you know, it could get worse before it gets better. Could maybe go away. We'll see what happens. Nobody really knows."

With Putin, the UK government worked out that Russian media put out 27 different versions of the story of the Salisbury nerve agent poisoning, in the space of a fortnight.
Hmmm....still seems not in the thread's theme.
Just ordinary bluffing & lying.
1984 was so much more.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
Hmmm....still seems not in the thread's theme.
Just ordinary bluffing & lying.
1984 was so much more.

The U.S. House during 2019-2020 has passed 6,019 bills....

So say the opposite to reality, and keep repeating it.


Donald J. Trump
✔@realDonaldTrump


"The Do Nothing Democrats are working hard to make everyone forget the Best Economy Ever, the monumental weekend raid, Tax Cuts, the Rebuilding of our Military, etc. The Impeachment Hoax is a disgrace. Read the transcript!"
6:25 AM - Oct 29, 2019

etc.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
27 versions. Impressive demonstration of a technique. Useful to know what's happening to us as a nation.
The idea, I think, is to get different groups of people believing different versions, according to what "feels right" to them (i.e. appeals to their conscious or unconscious biases) and to dilute the "straight" news - from the BBC or whomever - so that no consensus ever forms as to what really happened. Then people become cynical about it and give up trying to find the truth.
 
Top