Nine Pieces Of Evidence That Confirm The Historical Accuracy Of The Bible

[Subduction Zone]

I have written my proofs
But it seems no one seem to challenge these.
#517 MJFlores, Thursday at 2:42 PM

So far I have presented 5 seals of the Book of Revelations and compared it with History.
And I found no challengers, only scared cats
View attachment 28255

You really have no clue as to what a "proof" is. You rely on circular reasoning and claims that have been shown to be wrong. By the way, people have been reinterpreting Revelation for over a thousand years. Extremely vaguely written books can be abused in that way. None of them were right about the end times. It is a book of failed prophecies. We could go over why that is the case if you would like.

 

[joelr]

Let us go to the basics about the Bible:


THE BIBLE IS the “book of books.” Even though there are many “sacred books” used by different religions, the Bible is above all these “sacred books.” The Bible is unique, possessing characteristics and attributes that cannot be found in any books of different religions. What is the uniqueness of the Bible that makes it different from other religious books?

The Bible is Unique in Writing

The 66 books of the Bible were written at different times and under various circumstances. The Bible is unique in writing because it is the only book that was:

Actually all religious scripture is unique, that claim means nothing?

1. Written in the span of 1500 years:

2. Written in three languages:

·
3. Written by more than forty authors from different walks of life, including:

· (Paul);

4. Written in different times:


·

5. Written in different places:


6. Written in a wide variety of literary style:


The Bible is Unique in Transmission

.

Yes, mythology, metaphors and parables designed to teach things about life.
The Egyptians and Greeks had vast mythological literature also.

Doesn't mean the supernatural stories are true?

The Old Testament

The Old Testament has about 12,000 manuscripts and manuscript fragments, including the Geniza manuscripts and the Dead Sea Scroll:


“Even though the Old Testament does not boast of the same quantity of manuscripts (MSS) as the New Testament, the number of manuscripts available today is quite remarkable. Several reasons have been suggested for the scarcity of early Hebrew manuscripts. The first and most obvious reason is a combination of antiquity and destructibility; two – to three thousand years is a long time to expect ancient documents to last. Nonetheless, several lines of evidence support the conclusion that their quality is very good. First, it is important to establish the quantity of manuscripts available. There are several important collections of Hebrew manuscripts today. The first collection of Hebrew manuscripts, made by Benjamin Kennicott (1776-1780) and published by Oxford, listed 615 manuscripts of the Old Testament. Later, Giovanni de Rossi (1784-1788) published a list of 731 manuscripts. The most important manuscript discoveries in modern times are those of the Cairo Geniza (1890s) and the Dead Sea Scrolls (1947 and following years). In the Cairo synagogue attic, a geniza, or storehouse, for old manuscripts was discovered. Two hundred thousand manuscripts and fragments (Kahle, CG, 13 and Wurthwein, TOT, 25), some ten thousand of which are biblical (Goshen-Gottstein, BMUS, 35), were found.”1

Right, mythology from ancient people. As one of the biggest experts on biblical archeology shows the stories in the OT are not considered historical and many of the locations and events were greatly exaggerated.

"We want to make the Bible history. Many people think it has to be history or nothing. But there is no word for history in the Hebrew Bible. In other words, what did the biblical writers think they were doing? Writing objective history? No. That's a modern discipline. They were telling stories. They wanted you to know what these purported events mean."

"One of the first efforts of biblical archeology in the last century was to prove the historicity of the patriarchs, to locate them in a particular period in the archeological history. Today I think most archeologists would argue that there is no direct archeological proof that Abraham, for instance, ever lived."

Archeology of the Hebrew Bible


After the Persian invasion the Persian religion began diffusing into the OT, - god vs satan, afterlife, end of days with fire, savior messiah, all Zoroastrianism concepts first. So it's not unique as theology at all. Before the invasion there was no real afterlife to speak of. All of the main tenants are really just Persian myths written into the OT.

The New Testament

The New Testament has about 25,000 manuscripts:



Thus, no other document of antiquity can equal the existing quantity of the manuscripts (MSS) of the Bible (both Old and New Testaments). This also makes the Bible unique from not only any religious books, but even from any documents of antiquity.

Who cares if it's unique? In 4AD Rome made it law to be Christian and it was enforced militantly so of course it spread?
Again with the argument to popular appeal? We've covered this, it doesn't make something true.

And the theology in the NT was not really unique at all. It's a Jewish version of pagan dying/rising savior messiahs.
We know Mark was first and the other 3 have pages and pages of verbatim Greek. So they were obviously copied from Mark and added different takes on the story.
Luke borrowed and transformed much of the Kings narrative.

They were also written in a highly mythic style meaning they were not written as history but as mythology.

------

If you would question the credibility of the book,
we couldn't really move forward.
Might as well read something else
maybe from George R. R. Martin

Well the stories have meaning and some are good lessons and metaphors.
The supernatural claims are no more real than any other pagan savior god who rose from the dead and forgive-your-sins-and get you into heaven cult.

Outside of a few fundamentalist scholars no historian considers the books to be actual history or any supernatural claims to be true.
That is the consensus in scholarship.


Historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia
Historical reliability of the Gospels

"The historical reliability of the gospels refers to the reliability and historic character of the four New Testament gospels as historical documents. Little in the four canonical gospels is considered to be historically reliable"


Mark as a source-

"It is commonly thought that the writers of the Gospel of Matthew and Gospel of Luke used Mark as a source, with changes and improvement to peculiarities and crudities in Mark."

"Many scholars have pointed out that the Gospel of Mark shows signs of a lack of knowledge of geographical, political and religious matters in Judea in the time of Jesus. Thus, today the most common opinion is that the author is unknown and both geographically and historically at a distance to the narrated events"

 

[joelr]

I have written my proofs
But it seems no one seem to challenge these.
#517 MJFlores, Thursday at 2:42 PM

So far I have presented 5 seals of the Book of Revelations and compared it with History.
And I found no challengers, only scared cats
View attachment 28255

No I commented on that. That was embarrassing for you. Colored horses?

Here is a prophecy - "In 380 AD the Roman Emperor Constantine will make Christianity the state religion".

Then, if that happened, which it did, it STILL could easily be a coincidence. Or Constantine chose that year because it was the prophecy and he wanted to make it seem like a prophecy was fulfilled.
If someone knew the future they would say, in 313 there will be 4 gospels chosen as canon and the civil war in Rome will end by Constantine and he will convert the army from Mithriasim to Christianity then in 12 AD the RCC will form then in 14 AD .....

What you have is some vague nonsense mapped onto events. In those days there were events happening all the time you could match up any colored horse to.
In fact you could pick a bunch of completely different events and match up those horses to in the same order and say the same thing. There are always events that will fit a vague colored horse, using that as a prophecy come true is very cringe-y.

 

[Dan Mellis]

Spaghetti? Can I have chicken with that?
Someone needs to cook spaghetti.
Spaghetti can't exist without pasta
Pasta is made by people and could not simply emerge from
View attachment 28243
The Big Noodle Explosion.


Job 11:7-9 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
“Do you think you really understand God?
Do you completely understand God All-Powerful?
That knowledge is higher than the heavens
and deeper than the place of death.
So what can you do?
How can you learn it all?
It is greater than the earth
and bigger than the seas.

Actually, the spaghetti monster doesn't exist within the known laws of our universe. You just need to have faith.

 

[MJFlores]

No I commented on that. That was embarrassing for you. Colored horses?

Here is a prophecy - "In 380 AD the Roman Emperor Constantine will make Christianity the state religion".

Then, if that happened, which it did, it STILL could easily be a coincidence. Or Constantine chose that year because it was the prophecy and he wanted to make it seem like a prophecy was fulfilled.
If someone knew the future they would say, in 313 there will be 4 gospels chosen as canon and the civil war in Rome will end by Constantine and he will convert the army from Mithriasim to Christianity then in 12 AD the RCC will form then in 14 AD .....

What you have is some vague nonsense mapped onto events. In those days there were events happening all the time you could match up any colored horse to.
In fact you could pick a bunch of completely different events and match up those horses to in the same order and say the same thing. There are always events that will fit a vague colored horse, using that as a prophecy come true is very cringe-y.

Woot wooot wooot

 

[MJFlores]

Actually, the spaghetti monster doesn't exist within the known laws of our universe. You just need to have faith.

You don't need faith on this. You just need the proper ingredients and the know how to cook it.

What You Need

• water
• large pot
• pasta
• salt
• tongs
• colander
• 2 meat balls
• 2 edible eyes made of icing

Follow These Steps

1. Boil water in a large pot
   To make sure pasta doesn’t stick together, use at least 4 quarts of water for every pound of noodles.
2. Salt the water with at least a tablespoon—more is fine
   The salty water adds flavor to the pasta.
3. Add pasta
   Pour pasta into boiling water. Don’t break the pasta; it will soften up within 30 seconds and fit into the pot.
4. Stir the pasta
   As the pasta starts to cook, stir it well with the tongs so the noodles don’t stick to each other (or the pot).
5. Test the pasta by tasting it
   Follow the cooking time on the package, but always taste pasta before draining to make sure the texture is right. Pasta cooked properly should be al dente—a little chewy.
6. Drain the pasta
   Drain cooked pasta well in a colander. If serving hot, add sauce right away; if you’re making a pasta salad, run noodles under cold water to stop the cooking.

You want it a Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Serve this on a plane.

And viola!

 

[Dan Mellis]

You don't need faith on this. You just need the proper ingredients and the know how to cook it.

What You Need

• water
• large pot
• pasta
• salt
• tongs
• colander
• 2 meat balls
• 2 edible eyes made of icing

Follow These Steps

1. Boil water in a large pot
   To make sure pasta doesn’t stick together, use at least 4 quarts of water for every pound of noodles.
2. Salt the water with at least a tablespoon—more is fine
   The salty water adds flavor to the pasta.
3. Add pasta
   Pour pasta into boiling water. Don’t break the pasta; it will soften up within 30 seconds and fit into the pot.
4. Stir the pasta
   As the pasta starts to cook, stir it well with the tongs so the noodles don’t stick to each other (or the pot).
5. Test the pasta by tasting it
   Follow the cooking time on the package, but always taste pasta before draining to make sure the texture is right. Pasta cooked properly should be al dente—a little chewy.
6. Drain the pasta
   Drain cooked pasta well in a colander. If serving hot, add sauce right away; if you’re making a pasta salad, run noodles under cold water to stop the cooking.

You want it a Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Serve this on a plane.

View attachment 28258

And viola!

That's an effigy - the original noodle is otherwordly and cannot be represented by mere scientific cookery; but you have to just go by the FSM bible to understand. Another thing, if you read my bible, I think you'll find we were niether created as humans nor did we evolve from apes. You see; although we share 99% of our DNA with chimpanzees, we share 99.9% of our DNA with pirates. It's obvious - the Flying Spaghetti Monster in all his noodly godliness created pirates so that we could exist. My book proves it.

 

[MJFlores]

That's an effigy - the original noodle is otherwordly and cannot be represented by mere scientific cookery; but you have to just go by the FSM bible to understand. Another thing, if you read my bible, I think you'll find we were niether created as humans nor did we evolve from apes. You see; although we share 99% of our DNA with chimpanzees, we share 99.9% of our DNA with pirates. It's obvious - the Flying Spaghetti Monster in all his noodly godliness created pirates so that we could exist. My book proves it.

Just playing with you.

I would go for Jediism too.

Jediism is a philosophy mainly based on the depiction of the Jedi characters in Star Wars media. Jediism attracted public attention in 2001 when a number of people recorded their religion as "Jedi" on national censuses. Jediism is inspired by certain elements of Star Wars, namely the fictional religion of the Jedi. Wikipedia

 

[Dan Mellis]

Just playing with you.

I would go for Jediism too.

Jediism is a philosophy mainly based on the depiction of the Jedi characters in Star Wars media. Jediism attracted public attention in 2001 when a number of people recorded their religion as "Jedi" on national censuses. Jediism is inspired by certain elements of Star Wars, namely the fictional religion of the Jedi. Wikipedia

I know, I was just playing too although I was also trying to make a point about standards of evidence. I know there is some archaeological evidence to provide a level of confidence that certain events and places in the bible happened or existed, but that goes no way to address claims of a supernatural nature.

I like to think that even if jesus strode through the door, Decapitated a guy and brought him back to life, my first response would be "thats a cool trick. If seen Penn and Teller do something at a similar level. This guy could be famous"

 

[MJFlores]

I know, I was just playing too although I was also trying to make a point about standards of evidence. I know there is some archaeological evidence to provide a level of confidence that certain events and places in the bible happened or existed, but that goes no way to address claims of a supernatural nature.

I like to think that even if jesus strode through the door, Decapitated a guy and brought him back to life, my first response would be "thats a cool trick. If seen Penn and Teller do something at a similar level. This guy could be famous"

For me, I do not need any archeological evidence in order to believe.
If the book says this and that will happen - and it did - wouldn't that be neat?
What would a bunch of pottery prove over the prophecies written in the Book and testified by History?
The Book has power and that power comes from God.

I have posted five prophecies written in the Bible and recorded in the annals of history.
Part of it could be seen in

#517 MJFlores, Thursday at 2:42 PM

Now for the 6th prophecy - please correct me if I am wrong.
I love to be corrected.

Revelation 6:12-17 New International Version (NIV)
I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

There was a great earthquake 1 November 1755
1755 Lisbon earthquake - Wikipedia

The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, May 19, 1780
https://www.history.com/news/remembering-new-englands-dark-day

the whole moon turned blood red, May 19, 1780
'New England's Dark Day': That Time In 1780 When It Was Night Before Noon
Par 10
The darkness lasted the whole of the day. And I’m sure it didn’t help matters that when the moon was seen briefly that night, it was blood red. But of course, the end did not come. The sun came up the next morning and a curious debate began. Not everyone had looked to the heavens when darkness fell. Massachusetts was also the center of a burgeoning scientific community, an emerging Athens of America.

and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind
In 1833, the sky fell, but life went on | Richmond Daily News
This famous engraving of the 1833 Leonid meteor shower was produced for the Adventist book Bible Readings for the Home Circle by Adolf Vollmy. It’s based on a painting by Swiss artist Karl Jauslin, which, in turn, was based on a first-person account of the 1833 storm by a minister, Joseph Harvey Waggoner, who saw the 1833 shower on his way from Florida to New Orleans.

In that famous shower, hundreds of thousands of meteors per hour were seen! It was the first recorded meteor storm of modern times.

The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

 

[Dan Mellis]

For me, I do not need any archeological evidence in order to believe.
If the book says this and that will happen - and it did - wouldn't that be neat?
What would a bunch of pottery prove over the prophecies written in the Book and testified by History?
The Book has power and that power comes from God.

I have posted five prophecies written in the Bible and recorded in the annals of history.
Part of it could be seen in

#517 MJFlores, Thursday at 2:42 PM

Now for the 6th prophecy - please correct me if I am wrong.
I love to be corrected.

Revelation 6:12-17 New International Version (NIV)
I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

There was a great earthquake 1 November 1755
1755 Lisbon earthquake - Wikipedia

The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, May 19, 1780
https://www.history.com/news/remembering-new-englands-dark-day

the whole moon turned blood red, May 19, 1780
'New England's Dark Day': That Time In 1780 When It Was Night Before Noon
Par 10
The darkness lasted the whole of the day. And I’m sure it didn’t help matters that when the moon was seen briefly that night, it was blood red. But of course, the end did not come. The sun came up the next morning and a curious debate began. Not everyone had looked to the heavens when darkness fell. Massachusetts was also the center of a burgeoning scientific community, an emerging Athens of America.

and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind
In 1833, the sky fell, but life went on | Richmond Daily News
This famous engraving of the 1833 Leonid meteor shower was produced for the Adventist book Bible Readings for the Home Circle by Adolf Vollmy. It’s based on a painting by Swiss artist Karl Jauslin, which, in turn, was based on a first-person account of the 1833 storm by a minister, Joseph Harvey Waggoner, who saw the 1833 shower on his way from Florida to New Orleans.

In that famous shower, hundreds of thousands of meteors per hour were seen! It was the first recorded meteor storm of modern times.

The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

It would be interesting to see if there were other, similar occurrences which "prove" the prophesies. I couldn't say for sure, but I imaging there are.

What it boils down to is even if these all were singular, unique occurrences which happened exactly how they described in the book - that still isn't evidence for a god or that they had some sort of truth revealed to them.

It's more likely that they had 6 lucky guesses. Especially if those guesses were based on natural phenomena which have happened repeatedly through history (again, no research to support this so I'm not asserting that has actually happened).

That doesn't mean to say that its 'likely' that they'd have good guesses. But things that are fantastically unlikely happen every single day. Take conception - something we know and understand inside (ahem) and out.

The odds that you would be born as *you* with your exact genetic makeup are astronomical. Your parents had to choose eachother out of the millions of other potential matches, the sperm which won the race had to beat thousands of others, and the resulting genetic combination was a lottery. Now take this, and apply it to each of your parents birth. Then each of their parents. The odds that you were born decrease more and more the further back you go, and it was already 1 in a billion.

We understand how this works. You could argue some hand of god but theres no evidence for it being anything other than chance - isn't that amazing enough? The fact you are you, and you have one chance to make your mark - that, to me, is more amazing (not to mention more likely) than some deity interfering at every single stage.

Why brush it all off as predetermined? To me, the thought that I happened entirely by chance and that I have one life to spend makes this life feel much more precious. Giving a god the credit seems like a cop-out. It cheapens it.

 

[MJFlores]

It would be interesting to see if there were other, similar occurrences which "prove" the prophesies. I couldn't say for sure, but I imaging there are.

What it boils down to is even if these all were singular, unique occurrences which happened exactly how they described in the book - that still isn't evidence for a god or that they had some sort of truth revealed to them.

It's more likely that they had 6 lucky guesses. Especially if those guesses were based on natural phenomena which have happened repeatedly through history (again, no research to support this so I'm not asserting that has actually happened).

That doesn't mean to say that its 'likely' that they'd have good guesses. But things that are fantastically unlikely happen every single day. Take conception - something we know and understand inside (ahem) and out.

The odds that you would be born as *you* with your exact genetic makeup are astronomical. Your parents had to choose eachother out of the millions of other potential matches, the sperm which won the race had to beat thousands of others, and the resulting genetic combination was a lottery. Now take this, and apply it to each of your parents birth. Then each of their parents. The odds that you were born decrease more and more the further back you go, and it was already 1 in a billion.

We understand how this works. You could argue some hand of god but theres no evidence for it being anything other than chance - isn't that amazing enough? The fact you are you, and you have one chance to make your mark - that, to me, is more amazing (not to mention more likely) than some deity interfering at every single stage.

Why brush it all off as predetermined? To me, the thought that I happened entirely by chance and that I have one life to spend makes this life feel much more precious. Giving a god the credit seems like a cop-out. It cheapens it.

Please do find something that would disprove the 6 prophecies versus historical record.
It was one of the many bible doctrine studies in our church.
If anyone could disprove these and say it is another event then that would be something.
As I have told you - all I got are flat unsubstantiated denials

6 prophecies, couldn't be 6 coincidences.
There is a last one 7th and it requires some calculations.

I haven't even touch on the rest of the prophecies in depth
And these prophecies which became historical facts are more persuasive
and convincing that the Bible has power of prophecies before it becomes history.

Nostradamus eat your hearts out.

 

[Dan Mellis]

Please do find something that would disprove the 6 prophecies versus historical record.
It was one of the many bible doctrine studies in our church.
If anyone could disprove these and say it is another event then that would be something.
As I have told you - all I got are flat unsubstantiated denials

View attachment 28263

6 prophecies, couldn't be 6 coincidences.
There is a last one 7th and it requires some calculations.

I haven't even touch on the rest of the prophecies in depth
And these prophecies which became historical facts are more persuasive
and convincing that the Bible has power of prophecies before it becomes history.

Nostradamus eat your hearts out.

Actually, if youre making claims about supernatural powers, the burden of proof is on you, not for me to disprove them. Its like if I were to say "I can fly. But I won't prove it, you have to disprove it."

And who says it can't be coincidence?

 

[sooda]

Nope, modern scholars disagree. The Old Testament tends to date from less than 600 BCE. That is after the Babylon captivity. You are assuming that certain fictional characters in the Bible were real. That is as bad as assuming that Spiderman is real because there is a real New York City.



Yes, so what?



No, Moses, and Joshua were definitely fictional. That works attributed to David were almost certainly not by David. The same applies to Solomon, Ezra probably was written by Ezra, but that is a more recent book. The author of Luke was anonymous and assigning Luke/Acts to Luke is merely church tradition, it is not well supported by evidence. Peter may have written 1 Peter, but that itself is rather doubtful, he almost certainly did not write 2 Peter.. And Paul did write quite a bit of what was attributed to him, but not all Of course he was never an eyewitness and some of his tales appear to be rather clearly false.



And again no. Moses was a fictional character. You really should study the history of the Bible a bit. The tales of Joshua too do not match up with reality. Daniel was most likely written by three different authors over a span of time. You are not helping yourself here. Once again, read up on the history of the Bible.



Again, read up on the history of the Bible.



You forgot myths and tall tales.



"Tens of thousands of manuscripts" is a rather pointless claim. Most of them are by the Catholic Church after the year 300. And for some odd reason the number of "manuscripts" being produced drops to almost zero per year after the invention of the printing press. That leads to a big "So what?"



And again most of those "manuscripts" are after the year 300 CE. Again, so what?




More of the same nonsense. That you have to clutch at fabrications and tall tales tells us that the Bible is no credible. You really should study the history of the Bible. The "manuscripts" that would give it a hair of credibility are missing and it gets quite a few facts wrong. That is why desperate posts like this only make the failure of the Bible more obvious to those willing to do the research.

[/quote][/QUOTE]

Much of Palms was lifted from Ugarit poetry circa 1500 BC.

 

[MJFlores]

Actually, if youre making claims about supernatural powers, the burden of proof is on you, not for me to disprove them. Its like if I were to say "I can fly. But I won't prove it, you have to disprove it."

And who says it can't be coincidence?

Apostle John wrote those words in 96 AD at Patmos

And time passed.
And events unfolded chronologically and in order as written in the Bible

1st seal - white horse - Nicene Christianity becomes a state religion 380 AD
2nd seal - red horse - Crusade expeditions occurred between 1096 and 1291 AD
3rd seal - black horse - Great Famine in Europe 1315–1317
4rth seal - pale horse - Black Death 1347-1351
5th seal - altar of souls - Inquisition - 12th century
6th seal - great earthquake, etc - 1 November 1755 to 11 November 1918
7th seal - silence in the heavens - 11 November 1918 to September 1,1939

#570 MJFlores, Yesterday at 7:55 PM

The prophecies of the Book of Revelation [visions given to him by an angel of Jesus Christ] are the assertions
Recorded historical facts and events are the proofs
How was apostle John able to write about these events 284 years to more than a thousand years before it happened? And in chronological order as these events unfolded.

The seventh seal - was the last seal

The great War of 1914-1918 was the first war which cities were bombed from the air, thus people have to hide themselves in the air-raid shelters. The soldiers had to turn themselves into beavers and moles and dig deep trenches.

Take note that the First World War that began in 1914 was also the war that was followed by the “four angels” holding back the “wind”:

“After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree.” (Revelation 7:1 NKJV)

The “wind” refers to a “war” (Jer. 4:11-13 and 19). The “four corners of the earth” refers to the “four directions of the earth” (I Chron. 9:24). Thus, “wind of the four corners of the earth” is referring to the world war.

The word “angel” came from the Greek word which literally means “messenger,” and messenger means “sent.” According to Apostle Peter, the kings, governor or leaders of nation are “sent by Him”:

“Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme, or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.” (I Peter 2:13-14 NKJV)

The fulfillment of the prophecy:

“Orlando of Italy, Lloyd George of Great Britain, Clemenceau of France, and Wilson of America who were called the Big Four when they met in Paris to confer concerning the Treaty of Versailles.” (World History, p. 494)

The Bible also explicitly said that there was “silence in heaven for about half an hour” when the seventh seal was opened:

“When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.” (Revelation 8:1 NKJV)

As already mentioned, the “heaven” refers to “heavens of men” (Lev. 26:19). Also take note that “one day to God is one thousand years to man”:

“But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” (II Peter 3:8 NKJV)

One day to God is one thousand years to man. One day is 24 hours. Dividing one thousand years with 24 hours is “one hour is 41 years and 8 months.”

One day = One thousand years
24 hors = 1,000 years
1 hours = 41 years and 8 months
Half hour = 20 years and 10 months

Did the prophecy come to past?

First World War ended on November 11, 1918
Second World War started on September 1, 1939

YEAR MONTH DAY

1939 9 1
1918 11 11 .
20 years 9 months 20 days

Indeed, Revelation 8:1 came to past.


CONCLUSION

Therefore, the Bible is indeed the word of God. “What God was, the word was.” God’s power to declare what the future holds, telling us the things to come long before they happen. Since the power of God’s words are found in the words written in the Bible, the Bible also declares what the future holds, long before it happens. Thus the Bible is indeed not a human text, not a collection of myth, not in equal status with other “scriptures,” but the only Sacred Scripture where the words of God are written.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Apostle John wrote those words in 96 AD at Patmos
View attachment 28267

And time passed.
And events unfolded chronologically and in order as written in the Bible

1st seal - white horse - Nicene Christianity becomes a state religion 380 AD
2nd seal - red horse - Crusade expeditions occurred between 1096 and 1291 AD
3rd seal - black horse - Great Famine in Europe 1315–1317
4rth seal - pale horse - Black Death 1347-1351
5th seal - altar of souls - Inquisition - 12th century
6th seal - great earthquake, etc - 1 November 1755 to 11 November 1918
7th seal - silence in the heavens - 11 November 1918 to September 1,1939

#570 MJFlores, Yesterday at 7:55 PM

The prophecies of the Book of Revelation [visions given to him by an angel of Jesus Christ] are the assertions
Recorded historical facts and events are the proofs
How was apostle John able to write about these events 284 years to more than a thousand years before it happened? And in chronological order as these events unfolded.

The seventh seal - was the last seal

The great War of 1914-1918 was the first war which cities were bombed from the air, thus people have to hide themselves in the air-raid shelters. The soldiers had to turn themselves into beavers and moles and dig deep trenches.

Take note that the First World War that began in 1914 was also the war that was followed by the “four angels” holding back the “wind”:

“After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree.” (Revelation 7:1 NKJV)

The “wind” refers to a “war” (Jer. 4:11-13 and 19). The “four corners of the earth” refers to the “four directions of the earth” (I Chron. 9:24). Thus, “wind of the four corners of the earth” is referring to the world war.

The word “angel” came from the Greek word which literally means “messenger,” and messenger means “sent.” According to Apostle Peter, the kings, governor or leaders of nation are “sent by Him”:

“Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme, or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.” (I Peter 2:13-14 NKJV)

The fulfillment of the prophecy:

“Orlando of Italy, Lloyd George of Great Britain, Clemenceau of France, and Wilson of America who were called the Big Four when they met in Paris to confer concerning the Treaty of Versailles.” (World History, p. 494)

The Bible also explicitly said that there was “silence in heaven for about half an hour” when the seventh seal was opened:

“When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.” (Revelation 8:1 NKJV)

As already mentioned, the “heaven” refers to “heavens of men” (Lev. 26:19). Also take note that “one day to God is one thousand years to man”:

“But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” (II Peter 3:8 NKJV)

One day to God is one thousand years to man. One day is 24 hours. Dividing one thousand years with 24 hours is “one hour is 41 years and 8 months.”

One day = One thousand years
24 hors = 1,000 years
1 hours = 41 years and 8 months
Half hour = 20 years and 10 months

Did the prophecy come to past?

First World War ended on November 11, 1918
Second World War started on September 1, 1939

YEAR MONTH DAY

1939 9 1
1918 11 11 .
20 years 9 months 20 days

Indeed, Revelation 8:1 came to past.


CONCLUSION

Therefore, the Bible is indeed the word of God. “What God was, the word was.” God’s power to declare what the future holds, telling us the things to come long before they happen. Since the power of God’s words are found in the words written in the Bible, the Bible also declares what the future holds, long before it happens. Thus the Bible is indeed not a human text, not a collection of myth, not in equal status with other “scriptures,” but the only Sacred Scripture where the words of God are written.

Almost definitely not by John the Apostle. That was merely early church tradition. Modern scholars think that the author is unknown:

"The author names himself in the text as "John", but his precise identity remains a point of academic debate. Second-century Christian writers such as Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Melito the bishop of Sardis, and Clement of Alexandria and the author of the Muratorian fragment identify John the Apostle as the "John" of Revelation.[1] Modern scholarship generally takes a different view,[2] and many consider that nothing can be known about the author except that he was a Christian prophet.[3][citation not found] Some modern scholars characterise Revelation's author as a putative figure whom they call "John of Patmos". The bulk of traditional sources date the book to the reign of the emperor Domitian (AD 81–96), and the evidence tends to confirm this.[4]"

Book of Revelation - Wikipedia

And once again you are merely making the error of fitting in the book roughly to past events. By dong that it has been shown to have been fulfilled countless times. That makes it a failed prophecy.

Tell me do you want to learn or do you merely want to believe? It is easy to have false beliefs, it takes a bit of effort to learn.

 

[Dan Mellis]

Apostle John wrote those words in 96 AD at Patmos
View attachment 28267

And time passed.
And events unfolded chronologically and in order as written in the Bible

1st seal - white horse - Nicene Christianity becomes a state religion 380 AD
2nd seal - red horse - Crusade expeditions occurred between 1096 and 1291 AD
3rd seal - black horse - Great Famine in Europe 1315–1317
4rth seal - pale horse - Black Death 1347-1351
5th seal - altar of souls - Inquisition - 12th century
6th seal - great earthquake, etc - 1 November 1755 to 11 November 1918
7th seal - silence in the heavens - 11 November 1918 to September 1,1939

#570 MJFlores, Yesterday at 7:55 PM

The prophecies of the Book of Revelation [visions given to him by an angel of Jesus Christ] are the assertions
Recorded historical facts and events are the proofs
How was apostle John able to write about these events 284 years to more than a thousand years before it happened? And in chronological order as these events unfolded.

The seventh seal - was the last seal

The great War of 1914-1918 was the first war which cities were bombed from the air, thus people have to hide themselves in the air-raid shelters. The soldiers had to turn themselves into beavers and moles and dig deep trenches.

Take note that the First World War that began in 1914 was also the war that was followed by the “four angels” holding back the “wind”:

“After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree.” (Revelation 7:1 NKJV)

The “wind” refers to a “war” (Jer. 4:11-13 and 19). The “four corners of the earth” refers to the “four directions of the earth” (I Chron. 9:24). Thus, “wind of the four corners of the earth” is referring to the world war.

The word “angel” came from the Greek word which literally means “messenger,” and messenger means “sent.” According to Apostle Peter, the kings, governor or leaders of nation are “sent by Him”:

“Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme, or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.” (I Peter 2:13-14 NKJV)

The fulfillment of the prophecy:

“Orlando of Italy, Lloyd George of Great Britain, Clemenceau of France, and Wilson of America who were called the Big Four when they met in Paris to confer concerning the Treaty of Versailles.” (World History, p. 494)

The Bible also explicitly said that there was “silence in heaven for about half an hour” when the seventh seal was opened:

“When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.” (Revelation 8:1 NKJV)

As already mentioned, the “heaven” refers to “heavens of men” (Lev. 26:19). Also take note that “one day to God is one thousand years to man”:

“But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” (II Peter 3:8 NKJV)

One day to God is one thousand years to man. One day is 24 hours. Dividing one thousand years with 24 hours is “one hour is 41 years and 8 months.”

One day = One thousand years
24 hors = 1,000 years
1 hours = 41 years and 8 months
Half hour = 20 years and 10 months

Did the prophecy come to past?

First World War ended on November 11, 1918
Second World War started on September 1, 1939

YEAR MONTH DAY

1939 9 1
1918 11 11 .
20 years 9 months 20 days

Indeed, Revelation 8:1 came to past.


CONCLUSION

Therefore, the Bible is indeed the word of God. “What God was, the word was.” God’s power to declare what the future holds, telling us the things to come long before they happen. Since the power of God’s words are found in the words written in the Bible, the Bible also declares what the future holds, long before it happens. Thus the Bible is indeed not a human text, not a collection of myth, not in equal status with other “scriptures,” but the only Sacred Scripture where the words of God are written.

These are claims! Not proof. To see them as proof, you'd have to first accept the "seals" are a thing in the first place, and that "wind" refers to "war" (weird strecth, but maybe I'm missing something). A wind to the four corners of the earth, written at the time it was (by humans, because lets not forget that to believe otherwise I'd already have to believe in your god) means simply that - a wind that blows hard.

By making more of it than it is, if course you can inflate its importance.

 

[Dan Mellis]

Apostle John wrote those words in 96 AD at Patmos
View attachment 28267

And time passed.
And events unfolded chronologically and in order as written in the Bible

1st seal - white horse - Nicene Christianity becomes a state religion 380 AD
2nd seal - red horse - Crusade expeditions occurred between 1096 and 1291 AD
3rd seal - black horse - Great Famine in Europe 1315–1317
4rth seal - pale horse - Black Death 1347-1351
5th seal - altar of souls - Inquisition - 12th century
6th seal - great earthquake, etc - 1 November 1755 to 11 November 1918
7th seal - silence in the heavens - 11 November 1918 to September 1,1939

#570 MJFlores, Yesterday at 7:55 PM

The prophecies of the Book of Revelation [visions given to him by an angel of Jesus Christ] are the assertions
Recorded historical facts and events are the proofs
How was apostle John able to write about these events 284 years to more than a thousand years before it happened? And in chronological order as these events unfolded.

The seventh seal - was the last seal

The great War of 1914-1918 was the first war which cities were bombed from the air, thus people have to hide themselves in the air-raid shelters. The soldiers had to turn themselves into beavers and moles and dig deep trenches.

Take note that the First World War that began in 1914 was also the war that was followed by the “four angels” holding back the “wind”:

“After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree.” (Revelation 7:1 NKJV)

The “wind” refers to a “war” (Jer. 4:11-13 and 19). The “four corners of the earth” refers to the “four directions of the earth” (I Chron. 9:24). Thus, “wind of the four corners of the earth” is referring to the world war.

The word “angel” came from the Greek word which literally means “messenger,” and messenger means “sent.” According to Apostle Peter, the kings, governor or leaders of nation are “sent by Him”:

“Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme, or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.” (I Peter 2:13-14 NKJV)

The fulfillment of the prophecy:

“Orlando of Italy, Lloyd George of Great Britain, Clemenceau of France, and Wilson of America who were called the Big Four when they met in Paris to confer concerning the Treaty of Versailles.” (World History, p. 494)

The Bible also explicitly said that there was “silence in heaven for about half an hour” when the seventh seal was opened:

“When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.” (Revelation 8:1 NKJV)

As already mentioned, the “heaven” refers to “heavens of men” (Lev. 26:19). Also take note that “one day to God is one thousand years to man”:

“But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” (II Peter 3:8 NKJV)

One day to God is one thousand years to man. One day is 24 hours. Dividing one thousand years with 24 hours is “one hour is 41 years and 8 months.”

One day = One thousand years
24 hors = 1,000 years
1 hours = 41 years and 8 months
Half hour = 20 years and 10 months

Did the prophecy come to past?

First World War ended on November 11, 1918
Second World War started on September 1, 1939

YEAR MONTH DAY

1939 9 1
1918 11 11 .
20 years 9 months 20 days

Indeed, Revelation 8:1 came to past.


CONCLUSION

Therefore, the Bible is indeed the word of God. “What God was, the word was.” God’s power to declare what the future holds, telling us the things to come long before they happen. Since the power of God’s words are found in the words written in the Bible, the Bible also declares what the future holds, long before it happens. Thus the Bible is indeed not a human text, not a collection of myth, not in equal status with other “scriptures,” but the only Sacred Scripture where the words of God are written.

Even if we accept that these events were foretold - that still doesnt prove the existence of god. It would show that there is likely a science we don't understand, but they did, which isnt unheard of. The stones at maccu piccu are a great example. Using the tools available to them, we couldnt reproduce what they did today. That doesnt mean aliens did it; just that they had knowledge that is lost to us.

But its more likely that you're finding meaning where there isn't one and they were telling stories (something else humans are wired for, other than ritual)

 

[MJFlores]

These are claims! Not proof. To see them as proof, you'd have to first accept the "seals" are a thing in the first place, and that "wind" refers to "war" (weird strecth, but maybe I'm missing something). A wind to the four corners of the earth, written at the time it was (by humans, because lets not forget that to believe otherwise I'd already have to believe in your god) means simply that - a wind that blows hard.

By making more of it than it is, if course you can inflate its importance.

Even if we accept that these events were foretold - that still doesnt prove the existence of god. It would show that there is likely a science we don't understand, but they did, which isnt unheard of. The stones at maccu piccu are a great example. Using the tools available to them, we couldnt reproduce what they did today. That doesnt mean aliens did it; just that they had knowledge that is lost to us.

But its more likely that you're finding meaning where there isn't one and they were telling stories (something else humans are wired for, other than ritual)

Sometimes we have to have an open mind on these things.
Specially when the life and limb is an issue on this.
Maybe it is true, maybe it is not
For me I say it is true - because the glove fits.
They are arranged like dominoes and they are significant events in world history.

From Nicene Christianity to World War 2
Perfectly arranged - if the prophecies were not in order then it would be easy to dismiss.
What would be the chance of getting it right? 7 factorial?
Now we are living in the edge of the 7th seal
After that we would have the trumpets of the Revelation.
That I do not know when and how it would happen.

 

[joelr]

Apostle John wrote those words in 96 AD at Patmos

And time passed.
And events unfolded chronologically and in order as written in the Bible

1st seal - white horse - Nicene Christianity becomes a state religion 380 AD
2nd seal - red horse - Crusade expeditions occurred between 1096 and 1291 AD
3rd seal - black horse - Great Famine in Europe 1315–1317
4rth seal - pale horse - Black Death 1347-1351
5th seal - altar of souls - Inquisition - 12th century
6th seal - great earthquake, etc - 1 November 1755 to 11 November 1918
7th seal - silence in the heavens - 11 November 1918 to September 1,1939

#

The great War of 1914-1918 was the first war which cities were bombed from the air, thus people have to hide themselves in the air-raid shelters. The soldiers had to turn themselves into beavers and moles and dig deep trenches.

Totally bogus. Even if there were a bunch of horses that correctly mapped onto history how would anyone ever know if it wasn't just a coincidence?
But they don't map onto history at all.

A horse representing war is totally ambiguous because war is always happening. But the largest number of people killed was WWI which is where a horse representing war would fit.

A red horse goes with people killing each other - war, not a crusade.

The Great Famine was not the largest famine. Although famine issues obviously eventually arise. Waiting 1300 years and then saying "look a famine" is ridiculous.

The pale horse meaning black death is basically an outright lie by you.
It calls for death by sword and hunger, not infectious disease.

5th seal - the inquisition, wait did you just go BACKWARDS IN TIME???
So a list of prophecies is impressive to you because you think they predicted events in order. But your going backwards, out of order?

6th seal, great earthquake? Where is documentation that "the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood" during this earthquake?
Instead (HA) you posted a day 25 years later when forest fires caused the sky to change color in NEW ENGLAND????
Do you realize the sky goes red in California EVERY TIME there is a forest fire?


Did you just say there was peace from 1918-1939? WTF?

Here are a few of the HUNDREDS OF WARS FOUGHT in that time span, these mostly just from 1918.

The first United States occupation of the Dominican Republic lasted from 1916 to 1924 100–300 casualties

Great Arab Revolt 1918 47,000+ casualties

The Russian Civil War 1922 950,000 total casualties

The Finnish Civil War 1918 32,500 casualties

The Georgian–Armenian War 1918 total death toll may range in the thousands

The Hungarian–Czechoslovak War 1919

The Polish–Ukrainian War of November 1918 and 1919

The Armenian–Azerbaijani War, 1918

List of wars: 1900–1944 - Wikipedia


Thankfully even most Christian fundamentalist scholars understand what Revelations really is:

"Interpretation of meanings and imagery are anchored in what the historical author intended and what his contemporary audience inferred; a message to Christians not to assimilate into the Roman imperial culture was John's central message.[101] Thus, his letter (written in the apocalyptic genre) is pastoral in nature (its purpose is offering hope to the downtrodden),[103] and the symbolism of Revelation is to be understood entirely within its historical, literary, and social context.[103] Critics study the conventions of apocalyptic literature and events of the 1st century to make sense of what the author may have intended.[103]"


It's also just more myths borrowed from Zoroastrianism:

Scholar Barbara Whitlock pointed out a similarity between the consistent destruction of thirds depicted in the Book of Revelation (a third of mankind by plagues of fire, smoke, and brimstone, a third of the trees and green grass, a third of the sea creatures and a third of the ships at sea, etc.) and the Iranian mythology evil character Zahhak or Dahāg, depicted in the Avesta, the earliest religious texts of Zoroastrianism. Dahāg is mentioned as wreaking much evil in the world until at last chained up and imprisoned on the mythical Mt. Damāvand. The Middle Persian sources prophesy that at the end of the world, Dahāg will at last burst his bonds and ravage the world, consuming one in three humans and livestock, until the ancient hero Kirsāsp returns to life to kill Dahāg. Whitlock wrote: "Zoroastrianism, the state religion of the Roman Empire's main rival, was part of the intellectual millieu in which Christianity came into being, just as were Judaism, the Greek-Roman religion, and the worship of Isis and Mithras. A Zoroastrian influence is completely plausible"


Book of Revelation - Wikipedia