Nine Pieces Of Evidence That Confirm The Historical Accuracy Of The Bible

[joelr]

Please do find something that would disprove the 6 prophecies versus historical record.
It was one of the many bible doctrine studies in our church.
If anyone could disprove these and say it is another event then that would be something.
As I have told you - all I got are flat unsubstantiated denials

6 prophecies, couldn't be 6 coincidences.
There is a last one 7th and it requires some calculations.

I haven't even touch on the rest of the prophecies in depth
And these prophecies which became historical facts are more persuasive
and convincing that the Bible has power of prophecies before it becomes history.

Nostradamus eat your hearts out.

Actually Nostradamus was far more successful with his predictions. In fact several books were written on his prophecies complete with commentary. Compared to your colored horses Nostradamus was truly supernatural.

"Nostradamus predicted the Great Fire of London, the French Revolution, and the rises of Napoleon, Adolf Hitler, and Donald Trump. both world wars, and the nuclear destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Popular authors frequently claim that he predicted whatever major event had just happened at the time of each book's publication, such as the Apollo moon landings in 1969, the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster in 1986, the death of Diana, Princess of Wales in 1997, and the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center in 2001.This 'movable feast' aspect appears to be characteristic of the genre.

The Final Prophecies of Nostradamus served as the basis for the documentary The Man Who Saw Tomorrow and both did indeed mention possible generalised future attacks on New York"

 

[Dan Mellis]

Sometimes we have to have an open mind on these things.
Specially when the life and limb is an issue on this.
Maybe it is true, maybe it is not
For me I say it is true - because the glove fits.
They are arranged like dominoes and they are significant events in world history.

View attachment 28280

From Nicene Christianity to World War 2
Perfectly arranged - if the prophecies were not in order then it would be easy to dismiss.
What would be the chance of getting it right? 7 factorial?
Now we are living in the edge of the 7th seal
After that we would have the trumpets of the Revelation.
That I do not know when and how it would happen.

I agree! But doggedly sticking with the same argument and refusing to see its numerous, obvious flaws is the opposite of having an open mind.

As an atheist, I don't believe in second chances when it comes to how you live your life. You live, then you die and your brain rots and you return a state of non-existence, the same as before you were born. So when it comes to matters of life and limb, I want to be sure I'm living truthfully and with the most positive on impact on others I can achieve. It's too important to waste on preparing for an apocolypse which may or (more likely) may not happen

 

[MJFlores]

Totally bogus. Even if there were a bunch of horses that correctly mapped onto history how would anyone ever know if it wasn't just a coincidence?
But they don't map onto history at all.

A horse representing war is totally ambiguous because war is always happening. But the largest number of people killed was WWI which is where a horse representing war would fit.

A red horse goes with people killing each other - war, not a crusade.

The Great Famine was not the largest famine. Although famine issues obviously eventually arise. Waiting 1300 years and then saying "look a famine" is ridiculous.

The pale horse meaning black death is basically an outright lie by you.
It calls for death by sword and hunger, not infectious disease.

5th seal - the inquisition, wait did you just go BACKWARDS IN TIME???
So a list of prophecies is impressive to you because you think they predicted events in order. But your going backwards, out of order?

6th seal, great earthquake? Where is documentation that "the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood" during this earthquake?
Instead (HA) you posted a day 25 years later when forest fires caused the sky to change color in NEW ENGLAND????
Do you realize the sky goes red in California EVERY TIME there is a forest fire?


Did you just say there was peace from 1918-1939? WTF?

Here are a few of the HUNDREDS OF WARS FOUGHT in that time span, these mostly just from 1918.

The first United States occupation of the Dominican Republic lasted from 1916 to 1924 100–300 casualties

Great Arab Revolt 1918 47,000+ casualties

The Russian Civil War 1922 950,000 total casualties

The Finnish Civil War 1918 32,500 casualties

The Georgian–Armenian War 1918 total death toll may range in the thousands

The Hungarian–Czechoslovak War 1919

The Polish–Ukrainian War of November 1918 and 1919

The Armenian–Azerbaijani War, 1918

List of wars: 1900–1944 - Wikipedia


Thankfully even most Christian fundamentalist scholars understand what Revelations really is:

"Interpretation of meanings and imagery are anchored in what the historical author intended and what his contemporary audience inferred; a message to Christians not to assimilate into the Roman imperial culture was John's central message.[101] Thus, his letter (written in the apocalyptic genre) is pastoral in nature (its purpose is offering hope to the downtrodden),[103] and the symbolism of Revelation is to be understood entirely within its historical, literary, and social context.[103] Critics study the conventions of apocalyptic literature and events of the 1st century to make sense of what the author may have intended.[103]"


It's also just more myths borrowed from Zoroastrianism:

Scholar Barbara Whitlock pointed out a similarity between the consistent destruction of thirds depicted in the Book of Revelation (a third of mankind by plagues of fire, smoke, and brimstone, a third of the trees and green grass, a third of the sea creatures and a third of the ships at sea, etc.) and the Iranian mythology evil character Zahhak or Dahāg, depicted in the Avesta, the earliest religious texts of Zoroastrianism. Dahāg is mentioned as wreaking much evil in the world until at last chained up and imprisoned on the mythical Mt. Damāvand. The Middle Persian sources prophesy that at the end of the world, Dahāg will at last burst his bonds and ravage the world, consuming one in three humans and livestock, until the ancient hero Kirsāsp returns to life to kill Dahāg. Whitlock wrote: "Zoroastrianism, the state religion of the Roman Empire's main rival, was part of the intellectual millieu in which Christianity came into being, just as were Judaism, the Greek-Roman religion, and the worship of Isis and Mithras. A Zoroastrian influence is completely plausible"


Book of Revelation - Wikipedia

Which horse do you like?

 

[Dan Mellis]

Totally bogus. Even if there were a bunch of horses that correctly mapped onto history how would anyone ever know if it wasn't just a coincidence?
But they don't map onto history at all.

A horse representing war is totally ambiguous because war is always happening. But the largest number of people killed was WWI which is where a horse representing war would fit.

A red horse goes with people killing each other - war, not a crusade.

The Great Famine was not the largest famine. Although famine issues obviously eventually arise. Waiting 1300 years and then saying "look a famine" is ridiculous.

The pale horse meaning black death is basically an outright lie by you.
It calls for death by sword and hunger, not infectious disease.

5th seal - the inquisition, wait did you just go BACKWARDS IN TIME???
So a list of prophecies is impressive to you because you think they predicted events in order. But your going backwards, out of order?

6th seal, great earthquake? Where is documentation that "the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood" during this earthquake?
Instead (HA) you posted a day 25 years later when forest fires caused the sky to change color in NEW ENGLAND????
Do you realize the sky goes red in California EVERY TIME there is a forest fire?


Did you just say there was peace from 1918-1939? WTF?

Here are a few of the HUNDREDS OF WARS FOUGHT in that time span, these mostly just from 1918.

The first United States occupation of the Dominican Republic lasted from 1916 to 1924 100–300 casualties

Great Arab Revolt 1918 47,000+ casualties

The Russian Civil War 1922 950,000 total casualties

The Finnish Civil War 1918 32,500 casualties

The Georgian–Armenian War 1918 total death toll may range in the thousands

The Hungarian–Czechoslovak War 1919

The Polish–Ukrainian War of November 1918 and 1919

The Armenian–Azerbaijani War, 1918

List of wars: 1900–1944 - Wikipedia


Thankfully even most Christian fundamentalist scholars understand what Revelations really is:

"Interpretation of meanings and imagery are anchored in what the historical author intended and what his contemporary audience inferred; a message to Christians not to assimilate into the Roman imperial culture was John's central message.[101] Thus, his letter (written in the apocalyptic genre) is pastoral in nature (its purpose is offering hope to the downtrodden),[103] and the symbolism of Revelation is to be understood entirely within its historical, literary, and social context.[103] Critics study the conventions of apocalyptic literature and events of the 1st century to make sense of what the author may have intended.[103]"


It's also just more myths borrowed from Zoroastrianism:

Scholar Barbara Whitlock pointed out a similarity between the consistent destruction of thirds depicted in the Book of Revelation (a third of mankind by plagues of fire, smoke, and brimstone, a third of the trees and green grass, a third of the sea creatures and a third of the ships at sea, etc.) and the Iranian mythology evil character Zahhak or Dahāg, depicted in the Avesta, the earliest religious texts of Zoroastrianism. Dahāg is mentioned as wreaking much evil in the world until at last chained up and imprisoned on the mythical Mt. Damāvand. The Middle Persian sources prophesy that at the end of the world, Dahāg will at last burst his bonds and ravage the world, consuming one in three humans and livestock, until the ancient hero Kirsāsp returns to life to kill Dahāg. Whitlock wrote: "Zoroastrianism, the state religion of the Roman Empire's main rival, was part of the intellectual millieu in which Christianity came into being, just as were Judaism, the Greek-Roman religion, and the worship of Isis and Mithras. A Zoroastrian influence is completely plausible"


Book of Revelation - Wikipedia

Don't even get me started on Mithras hahaha when your core mythological figure is almost a carbon copy of a pagan god/hero, and you stick with it because "bible," you've gone wrong somewhere.

 

[MJFlores]

I agree! But doggedly sticking with the same argument and refusing to see its numerous, obvious flaws is the opposite of having an open mind.

As an atheist, I don't believe in second chances when it comes to how you live your life. You live, then you die and your brain rots and you return a state of non-existence, the same as before you were born. So when it comes to matters of life and limb, I want to be sure I'm living truthfully and with the most positive on impact on others I can achieve. It's too important to waste on preparing for an apocolypse which may or (more likely) may not happen

"Apocalypse" (ἀποκάλυψις) is a Greek word meaning "revelation", "an unveiling or unfolding of things not previously known and which could not be known apart from the unveiling".

When we die, we rot.
Our inner being [soul] dies.
Our flesh returns to the ground.
Our breath of life returns to God.
We wait for Judgement Day.
If a person is in Christ - he enjoys the first resurrection
If he is not in Christ - he will be awaken 1,000 years after the first resurrection

If your name is written on the Book of Life
You are in and if not, everybody knows the drill.

 

[Dan Mellis]

"Apocalypse" (ἀποκάλυψις) is a Greek word meaning "revelation", "an unveiling or unfolding of things not previously known and which could not be known apart from the unveiling".

When we die, we rot.
Our inner being [soul] dies.
Our flesh returns to the ground.
Our breath of life returns to God.
We wait for Judgement Day.
If a person is in Christ - he enjoys the first resurrection
If he is not in Christ - he will be awaken 1,000 years after the first resurrection

If your name is written on the Book of Life
You are in and if not, everybody knows the drill.

Actually the real truth is if you die well in battle, you go to valhalla to fight and feast until the lay of the gods at Ragnarok.

If you don't you get to live in a dark, drafty hall with only goats **** to drink. I know all this because it's in the Prose Edda. Volsungasaga and Skrimlisaga - three different texts which all align to say the same thing, thus proving their truth. Also, Odin told me I'm right in my head.

If you can make claims about revealed truth, so can I. Is my argument convincing? If not, why would you think I'd believe yours?

 

[sooda]

For me, I do not need any archeological evidence in order to believe.
If the book says this and that will happen - and it did - wouldn't that be neat?
What would a bunch of pottery prove over the prophecies written in the Book and testified by History?
The Book has power and that power comes from God.

I have posted five prophecies written in the Bible and recorded in the annals of history.
Part of it could be seen in

#517 MJFlores, Thursday at 2:42 PM

Now for the 6th prophecy - please correct me if I am wrong.
I love to be corrected.

Revelation 6:12-17 New International Version (NIV)
I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

There was a great earthquake 1 November 1755
1755 Lisbon earthquake - Wikipedia

The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, May 19, 1780
https://www.history.com/news/remembering-new-englands-dark-day

the whole moon turned blood red, May 19, 1780
'New England's Dark Day': That Time In 1780 When It Was Night Before Noon
Par 10
The darkness lasted the whole of the day. And I’m sure it didn’t help matters that when the moon was seen briefly that night, it was blood red. But of course, the end did not come. The sun came up the next morning and a curious debate began. Not everyone had looked to the heavens when darkness fell. Massachusetts was also the center of a burgeoning scientific community, an emerging Athens of America.

and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind
In 1833, the sky fell, but life went on | Richmond Daily News
This famous engraving of the 1833 Leonid meteor shower was produced for the Adventist book Bible Readings for the Home Circle by Adolf Vollmy. It’s based on a painting by Swiss artist Karl Jauslin, which, in turn, was based on a first-person account of the 1833 storm by a minister, Joseph Harvey Waggoner, who saw the 1833 shower on his way from Florida to New Orleans.

In that famous shower, hundreds of thousands of meteors per hour were seen! It was the first recorded meteor storm of modern times.

The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

Falling rocks were part of the siege in 70 AD..

Despite the fortifications of the city, Titus decided to attack in February of 66 CE; his decision was affirmed after one of his negotiators was wounded by a missile. Several siege engines worked to launch stones at the fortifications and rams approached to breach the walls. The defenders sent forth many assault parties to dismantle the siege weapons and had enough success that the breach was postponed for several months.
The French "Red Zone" Is So Dangerous, It Still Is A No-Go Area 100 Years After WWI

 

[sooda]

View attachment 28285

Which horse do you like?

Chronology of the War
According to Josephus
Part 7:
The Siege and Destruction of Jerusalem
March 70 - September 70


The French "Red Zone" Is So Dangerous, It Still Is A No-Go Area 100 Years After WWI

 

[MJFlores]

Actually the real truth is if you die well in battle, you go to valhalla to fight and feast until the lay of the gods at Ragnarok.

If you don't you get to live in a dark, drafty hall with only goats **** to drink. I know all this because it's in the Prose Edda. Volsungasaga and Skrimlisaga - three different texts which all align to say the same thing, thus proving their truth. Also, Odin told me I'm right in my head.

If you can make claims about revealed truth, so can I. Is my argument convincing? If not, why would you think I'd believe yours?

I like my Ragnarok on DVD. If I am white pagan male, probably I would believe that. But I am an Asian Christian male living in the tropics with an average temperature of 87°F or 31°C - not really Viking climate.

God for me is not human.
He does not have human form or looks like human.
God of the Bible is spirit. John 4:24
When the Bible says God is spirit, he does not have flesh and bones.
Odin and the rest of the Asgard gods have flesh and bones
A god that is visible is no god but something else.

I rather have the knowledge of the true God written on the Bible
Than some shaman preaching his idea of God after taking some crystal meth

A god or gods and goddesses are written in some ancient scripture or carved in some ancient stone does mean that this god real.

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 New International Version (NIV)
For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

If the only true God is written in the Bible which this book contains prophecies written a long time ago 1,500 years ago and then came true which we are witnessing ourselves.

Then betcha by golly wow - why would I stop believing on it?

Example of the prophecy written in the Bible that came true and we are witnessing it today.

1 Timothy 4:1-3 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
Now the Spirit manifestly saith, that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils,

Speaking lies in hypocrisy, and having their conscience seared,

Forbidding to marry, to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving by the faithful, and by them that have known the truth.

What religious group teaches that? Then that group have spirits of error and doctrines of devils.

That is why I know that the Bible has prophecies written before events unfolded.

 

[MJFlores]

Falling rocks were part of the siege in 70 AD..

Despite the fortifications of the city, Titus decided to attack in February of 66 CE; his decision was affirmed after one of his negotiators was wounded by a missile. Several siege engines worked to launch stones at the fortifications and rams approached to breach the walls. The defenders sent forth many assault parties to dismantle the siege weapons and had enough success that the breach was postponed for several months.
The French "Red Zone" Is So Dangerous, It Still Is A No-Go Area 100 Years After WWI

Chronology of the War
According to Josephus
Part 7:
The Siege and Destruction of Jerusalem
March 70 - September 70


The French "Red Zone" Is So Dangerous, It Still Is A No-Go Area 100 Years After WWI

These are....?

Matthew 24:1-2 New International Version (NIV)
Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

 

[sooda]

I like my Ragnarok on DVD. If I am white pagan male, probably I would believe that. But I am an Asian Christian male living in the tropics with an average temperature of 87°F or 31°C - not really Viking climate.

View attachment 28286

God for me is not human.
He does not have human form or looks like human.
God of the Bible is spirit. John 4:24
When the Bible says God is spirit, he does not have flesh and bones.
Odin and the rest of the Asgard gods have flesh and bones
A god that is visible is no god but something else.

I rather have the knowledge of the true God written on the Bible
Than some shaman preaching his idea of God after taking some crystal meth

A god or gods and goddesses are written in some ancient scripture or carved in some ancient stone does mean that this god real.

View attachment 28288

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 New International Version (NIV)
For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

If the only true God is written in the Bible which this book contains prophecies written a long time ago 1,500 years ago and then came true which we are witnessing ourselves.

Then betcha by golly wow - why would I stop believing on it?

Example of the prophecy written in the Bible that came true and we are witnessing it today.

1 Timothy 4:1-3 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
Now the Spirit manifestly saith, that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils,

Speaking lies in hypocrisy, and having their conscience seared,

Forbidding to marry, to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving by the faithful, and by them that have known the truth.


View attachment 28289View attachment 28290

What religious group teaches that? Then that group have spirits of error and doctrines of devils.

That is why I know that the Bible has prophecies written before events unfolded.

A Study into the "Left Behind Deception"

The Left Behind Deception

Excerpt:

Futurism in America

One of the most important figures in this whole drama is Cyrus Ingerson Scofield (1843-1921), a Kansas lawyer who was greatly influenced by the writings of Darby. In 1909, Scofield published the first edition of his famous Scofield Reference Bible. In the early 1900's, this Bible became so popular in American Protestant Bible schools that it was necessary to print literally millions of copies. Yet, in the much-respected footnotes of this very Bible, Scofield injected large doses of the fluid of Futurism also found in the writings of Darby, Todd, Maitland, Bellarmine, and Ribera.

Through the Scofield Bible, the Jesuit child reached young adulthood. The doctrine of an AntiMessish still to come was becoming firmly established inside 20th-century American Protestantism.

The Moody Bible Institute and the Dallas Theological Seminary have strongly supported the teachings of John Nelson Darby, and this has continued to fuel Futurism´s growth. Then in the 1970's, Pastor Hal Lindsey, a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary, released his blockbuster book The Late Great Planet Earth.

This 177-page, easy-to-read volume brought Futurism to the masses of American Christianity, and beyond. The New York Times labeled it “The number one best-seller of the decade.’ Over 30 million copies have been sold, and it has been translated into over 30 languages. Through 'The Late Great Planet Earth,' Jesuit Futurism took a strong hold over the Protestant Christian world.

 

[MJFlores]

A Study into the "Left Behind Deception"

The Left Behind Deception

Excerpt:

Futurism in America

One of the most important figures in this whole drama is Cyrus Ingerson Scofield (1843-1921), a Kansas lawyer who was greatly influenced by the writings of Darby. In 1909, Scofield published the first edition of his famous Scofield Reference Bible. In the early 1900's, this Bible became so popular in American Protestant Bible schools that it was necessary to print literally millions of copies. Yet, in the much-respected footnotes of this very Bible, Scofield injected large doses of the fluid of Futurism also found in the writings of Darby, Todd, Maitland, Bellarmine, and Ribera.

Through the Scofield Bible, the Jesuit child reached young adulthood. The doctrine of an AntiMessish still to come was becoming firmly established inside 20th-century American Protestantism.

The Moody Bible Institute and the Dallas Theological Seminary have strongly supported the teachings of John Nelson Darby, and this has continued to fuel Futurism´s growth. Then in the 1970's, Pastor Hal Lindsey, a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary, released his blockbuster book The Late Great Planet Earth.

This 177-page, easy-to-read volume brought Futurism to the masses of American Christianity, and beyond. The New York Times labeled it “The number one best-seller of the decade.’ Over 30 million copies have been sold, and it has been translated into over 30 languages. Through 'The Late Great Planet Earth,' Jesuit Futurism took a strong hold over the Protestant Christian world.

Nice to know but it is irrelevant for me.

Why is that?
I'm no Protestant.
Protestantism started in the West
I'm not even an American
They believe differently from what I believe.

 

[Dan Mellis]

I like my Ragnarok on DVD. If I am white pagan male, probably I would believe that. But I am an Asian Christian male living in the tropics with an average temperature of 87°F or 31°C - not really Viking climate.

View attachment 28286

God for me is not human.
He does not have human form or looks like human.
God of the Bible is spirit. John 4:24
When the Bible says God is spirit, he does not have flesh and bones.
Odin and the rest of the Asgard gods have flesh and bones
A god that is visible is no god but something else.

I rather have the knowledge of the true God written on the Bible
Than some shaman preaching his idea of God after taking some crystal meth

A god or gods and goddesses are written in some ancient scripture or carved in some ancient stone does mean that this god real.

View attachment 28288

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 New International Version (NIV)
For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

If the only true God is written in the Bible which this book contains prophecies written a long time ago 1,500 years ago and then came true which we are witnessing ourselves.

Then betcha by golly wow - why would I stop believing on it?

Example of the prophecy written in the Bible that came true and we are witnessing it today.

1 Timothy 4:1-3 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
Now the Spirit manifestly saith, that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils,

Speaking lies in hypocrisy, and having their conscience seared,

Forbidding to marry, to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving by the faithful, and by them that have known the truth.


View attachment 28289View attachment 28290

What religious group teaches that? Then that group have spirits of error and doctrines of devils.

That is why I know that the Bible has prophecies written before events unfolded.

Again, ignoring the scripture because you can't use the bible to prove the bible.

But you did sum up a really good logical flaw in belief in any god - your belief has nothing to do with truth and everything to do with your time and place. Had you been living in iraq, you'd likely be Muslim. Ancient Norway, you' believe in Thor, Odin, Loki, Frey, Tyr and the rest of the gang. If you were brought up in a shaolin temple, do you think your god would have reached down and revealed his truth? Or would you wholeheartedly follow their religion with every bit of conviction that you have about yahweh?

What makes your book right, and the Havamal (sayings of odin, a modern attempt at the recreation of norse religion) wrong? The Havamal doesnt make any prophetical claims, advocate slavery, demean women, bash gays or call for the destruction of other faiths. I'd much rather use that as my spiritual guideline.

 

[MJFlores]

Again, ignoring the scripture because you can't use the bible to prove the bible.

But you did sum up a really good logical flaw in belief in any god - your belief has nothing to do with truth and everything to do with your time and place. Had you been living in iraq, you'd likely be Muslim. Ancient Norway, you' believe in Thor, Odin, Loki, Frey, Tyr and the rest of the gang. If you were brought up in a shaolin temple, do you think your god would have reached down and revealed his truth? Or would you wholeheartedly follow their religion with every bit of conviction that you have about yahweh?

What makes your book right, and the Havamal (sayings of odin, a modern attempt at the recreation of norse religion) wrong? The Havamal doesnt make any prophetical claims, advocate slavery, demean women, bash gays or call for the destruction of other faiths. I'd much rather use that as my spiritual guideline.

If I was born Shaolin and God's gospel does not reach my ears,
then I am not chosen to be His people, Christ's sheep.
I would be Shaolin, uselessly mastering the art of kung fu in an age where modern weapons is the thing.
I will be a decadent monk, always saying "Buddha be praised!'

At Judgement Day, I will be receiving my fate - being tormented day and night where the fires won't be quenched and the worms do not die. I will scream as the fires engulf me. The heat is too intense that I could feel each blade of flame scorching my body. And I will just imagine a dish of Shaolin Fried Rice, while my stomach growls in hunger for eternity.

But of course that is not the case.
What ever verdict passed over me is just
Because God is just.

Today we call our Sacred Scriptures “the Bible.” The Bible forms the foundation upon which every teaching and practice of the Iglesia Ni Cristo or the Church Of Christ are built. The Bible-centered method is one of the defining characteristics that make this Church unique.However, the attitude of some more liberal groups concerning the Bible departs even further from the proper reverence that should be accorded the Scriptures, and some who even profess to be Christians, calling the Bible only one of many “sacred texts.”

These same people consider the religious books of other religions, such as those of Buddhism and Hinduism, to be equally valid “expressions of God’s voice” and worthy of equal consideration and respect as the Bible. They consider all the “sacred texts” to be God’s various ways of speaking His truth to man, no matter how much the “truths” these books teach differ from and contradict one another and the Bible.

Still others give the Bible no respect at all, as they try to deconstruct it and attempt to read into the motives of the different writers, assigning them various social and political agendas. For them, there is no such thing as a sacred text. They see the Bible only as a human text that can be analyzed and criticized like any other literary works.

There are those who classify the Bible as a mere collection of myths, that is, something beyond the realm of truth. Others believe that the Bible is a mere work of man and just a product of human imagination.

What God was, the Word was

God is unique in that He is almighty (Gen. 17:1). He has unlimited power. His will always comes to pass since nothing could ever prevent its fulfillment. God’s words possess the same quality:


“For no word from God shall be void of power.” (Lk. 1:37, ASV)

Every word from the Almighty God has power. Like God Himself, His words are of unlimited power. How is God’s power manifested in His words?

“Bring in your idols to tell us what is going to happen. Tell us what the former things were, so that we may consider them and know their final outcome. Or declare to us the things to come, tell us what the future holds, so we may know that you are gods. Do something, whether good or bad, so that we will be dismayed and filled with fear.” (Is. 41:22-23, NIV)

God is able to declare what the future holds. He can tell us the things to come long before they happen. False gods, such as idols and graven images, cannot do or say anything, let alone declare the future. And it is this power of God, which can be seen when what He says come to pass, that proves that He alone is the true God. God is able to “make known the end from the beginning” – or declare what will ultimately and certainly come to pass – because He himself, with His infinite power, brings His words to fulfillment (Is. 46:9-10). This characteristic of God and of His words distinguishes Him from man. Man by Himself cannot “declare the things to come” since he cannot foretell even the day of his own death (Js. 4:14).

Therefore, God’s power and the power of His words are found in no other. In view of this fact:

• There is indeed a sacred scripture, the word of God that “what God was, the word was.”
• This power of the divine word, “declaring the things to come,” cannot be found in any “human text.”
• Only the scripture that have the power of the divine word or the attributes of the word of God can rightfully claim to be the Sacred Scripture where the words of God are indeed written.

As presented days before:

1st seal - white horse - Nicene Christianity becomes a state religion 380 AD
2nd seal - red horse - Crusade expeditions occurred between 1096 and 1291 AD
3rd seal - black horse - Great Famine in Europe 1315–1317
4rth seal - pale horse - Black Death 1347-1351
5th seal - altar of souls - Inquisition - 12th century
6th seal - great earthquake, etc - 1 November 1755 to 11 November 1918
7th seal - silence in the heavens - 11 November 1918 to September 1,1939

#570 MJFlores, Yesterday at 7:55 PM

 

[sooda]

View attachment 28292

If I was born Shaolin and God's gospel does not reach my ears,
then I am not chosen to be His people, Christ's sheep.
I would be Shaolin, uselessly mastering the art of kung fu in an age where modern weapons is the thing.
I will be a decadent monk, always saying "Buddha be praised!'

At Judgement Day, I will be receiving my fate - being tormented day and night where the fires won't be quenched and the worms do not die. I will scream as the fires engulf me. The heat is too intense that I could feel each blade of flame scorching my body. And I will just imagine a dish of Shaolin Fried Rice, while my stomach growls in hunger for eternity.

View attachment 28293

But of course that is not the case.
What ever verdict passed over me is just
Because God is just.

Today we call our Sacred Scriptures “the Bible.” The Bible forms the foundation upon which every teaching and practice of the Iglesia Ni Cristo or the Church Of Christ are built. The Bible-centered method is one of the defining characteristics that make this Church unique.However, the attitude of some more liberal groups concerning the Bible departs even further from the proper reverence that should be accorded the Scriptures, and some who even profess to be Christians, calling the Bible only one of many “sacred texts.”

These same people consider the religious books of other religions, such as those of Buddhism and Hinduism, to be equally valid “expressions of God’s voice” and worthy of equal consideration and respect as the Bible. They consider all the “sacred texts” to be God’s various ways of speaking His truth to man, no matter how much the “truths” these books teach differ from and contradict one another and the Bible.

Still others give the Bible no respect at all, as they try to deconstruct it and attempt to read into the motives of the different writers, assigning them various social and political agendas. For them, there is no such thing as a sacred text. They see the Bible only as a human text that can be analyzed and criticized like any other literary works.

There are those who classify the Bible as a mere collection of myths, that is, something beyond the realm of truth. Others believe that the Bible is a mere work of man and just a product of human imagination.

What God was, the Word was

God is unique in that He is almighty (Gen. 17:1). He has unlimited power. His will always comes to pass since nothing could ever prevent its fulfillment. God’s words possess the same quality:


“For no word from God shall be void of power.” (Lk. 1:37, ASV)

Every word from the Almighty God has power. Like God Himself, His words are of unlimited power. How is God’s power manifested in His words?

“Bring in your idols to tell us what is going to happen. Tell us what the former things were, so that we may consider them and know their final outcome. Or declare to us the things to come, tell us what the future holds, so we may know that you are gods. Do something, whether good or bad, so that we will be dismayed and filled with fear.” (Is. 41:22-23, NIV)

God is able to declare what the future holds. He can tell us the things to come long before they happen. False gods, such as idols and graven images, cannot do or say anything, let alone declare the future. And it is this power of God, which can be seen when what He says come to pass, that proves that He alone is the true God. God is able to “make known the end from the beginning” – or declare what will ultimately and certainly come to pass – because He himself, with His infinite power, brings His words to fulfillment (Is. 46:9-10). This characteristic of God and of His words distinguishes Him from man. Man by Himself cannot “declare the things to come” since he cannot foretell even the day of his own death (Js. 4:14).

Therefore, God’s power and the power of His words are found in no other. In view of this fact:

• There is indeed a sacred scripture, the word of God that “what God was, the word was.”
• This power of the divine word, “declaring the things to come,” cannot be found in any “human text.”
• Only the scripture that have the power of the divine word or the attributes of the word of God can rightfully claim to be the Sacred Scripture where the words of God are indeed written.

As presented days before:

1st seal - white horse - Nicene Christianity becomes a state religion 380 AD
2nd seal - red horse - Crusade expeditions occurred between 1096 and 1291 AD
3rd seal - black horse - Great Famine in Europe 1315–1317
4rth seal - pale horse - Black Death 1347-1351
5th seal - altar of souls - Inquisition - 12th century
6th seal - great earthquake, etc - 1 November 1755 to 11 November 1918
7th seal - silence in the heavens - 11 November 1918 to September 1,1939

#570 MJFlores, Yesterday at 7:55 PM

You think they ignored the 7 churches in favor of predicting thousands of years in the future????

 

[Dan Mellis]

View attachment 28292

If I was born Shaolin and God's gospel does not reach my ears,
then I am not chosen to be His people, Christ's sheep.
I would be Shaolin, uselessly mastering the art of kung fu in an age where modern weapons is the thing.
I will be a decadent monk, always saying "Buddha be praised!'

At Judgement Day, I will be receiving my fate - being tormented day and night where the fires won't be quenched and the worms do not die. I will scream as the fires engulf me. The heat is too intense that I could feel each blade of flame scorching my body. And I will just imagine a dish of Shaolin Fried Rice, while my stomach growls in hunger for eternity.

View attachment 28293

But of course that is not the case.
What ever verdict passed over me is just
Because God is just.

Today we call our Sacred Scriptures “the Bible.” The Bible forms the foundation upon which every teaching and practice of the Iglesia Ni Cristo or the Church Of Christ are built. The Bible-centered method is one of the defining characteristics that make this Church unique.However, the attitude of some more liberal groups concerning the Bible departs even further from the proper reverence that should be accorded the Scriptures, and some who even profess to be Christians, calling the Bible only one of many “sacred texts.”

These same people consider the religious books of other religions, such as those of Buddhism and Hinduism, to be equally valid “expressions of God’s voice” and worthy of equal consideration and respect as the Bible. They consider all the “sacred texts” to be God’s various ways of speaking His truth to man, no matter how much the “truths” these books teach differ from and contradict one another and the Bible.

Still others give the Bible no respect at all, as they try to deconstruct it and attempt to read into the motives of the different writers, assigning them various social and political agendas. For them, there is no such thing as a sacred text. They see the Bible only as a human text that can be analyzed and criticized like any other literary works.

There are those who classify the Bible as a mere collection of myths, that is, something beyond the realm of truth. Others believe that the Bible is a mere work of man and just a product of human imagination.

What God was, the Word was

God is unique in that He is almighty (Gen. 17:1). He has unlimited power. His will always comes to pass since nothing could ever prevent its fulfillment. God’s words possess the same quality:


“For no word from God shall be void of power.” (Lk. 1:37, ASV)

Every word from the Almighty God has power. Like God Himself, His words are of unlimited power. How is God’s power manifested in His words?

“Bring in your idols to tell us what is going to happen. Tell us what the former things were, so that we may consider them and know their final outcome. Or declare to us the things to come, tell us what the future holds, so we may know that you are gods. Do something, whether good or bad, so that we will be dismayed and filled with fear.” (Is. 41:22-23, NIV)

God is able to declare what the future holds. He can tell us the things to come long before they happen. False gods, such as idols and graven images, cannot do or say anything, let alone declare the future. And it is this power of God, which can be seen when what He says come to pass, that proves that He alone is the true God. God is able to “make known the end from the beginning” – or declare what will ultimately and certainly come to pass – because He himself, with His infinite power, brings His words to fulfillment (Is. 46:9-10). This characteristic of God and of His words distinguishes Him from man. Man by Himself cannot “declare the things to come” since he cannot foretell even the day of his own death (Js. 4:14).

Therefore, God’s power and the power of His words are found in no other. In view of this fact:

• There is indeed a sacred scripture, the word of God that “what God was, the word was.”
• This power of the divine word, “declaring the things to come,” cannot be found in any “human text.”
• Only the scripture that have the power of the divine word or the attributes of the word of God can rightfully claim to be the Sacred Scripture where the words of God are indeed written.

As presented days before:

1st seal - white horse - Nicene Christianity becomes a state religion 380 AD
2nd seal - red horse - Crusade expeditions occurred between 1096 and 1291 AD
3rd seal - black horse - Great Famine in Europe 1315–1317
4rth seal - pale horse - Black Death 1347-1351
5th seal - altar of souls - Inquisition - 12th century
6th seal - great earthquake, etc - 1 November 1755 to 11 November 1918
7th seal - silence in the heavens - 11 November 1918 to September 1,1939

#570 MJFlores, Yesterday at 7:55 PM

So (again, ignoring any scripture - please stop preaching at us) your god creates everyone, but he creates some who he's already decided are getting tortured forever? What makes you better than a monk who sets themselves on fire in protest of war, or than the numerous atheist charity groups who spend thousands of hours helping those who are worse off than them?

That claim is one of the most heinous, conceited claims that followers of Abrahamic religions make. It's disgusting. And I'm afraid if you're going to assert that you're just 'better' han those who don't believe what you do, I demand that you come up with actual evidence of that claim. Not the bible, because that can be demonstrated to be... problematic (to put it diplomatically)

It's one thing to say you know something the rest of us don't; but if you claim spiritual and moral superiority because of your personally held belief - you're crossing a line.

Your argument may be that my position is that secularism holds a better moral position, which it does, but that says nothing about me or you individually. I don't know you and despite this discussion, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that you're a better person through and through. I've certainly done nothing to elevate me from the masses.

You might also claim that you also withhold judgement on individuals. That would be false. If you believe your god will send them to hell and you also believe that your god is correct in whatever judgement he passes, then you're judging vicariously. It's a very thin veil.

I apologise if this post seems heated - I don't believe there was any malice in your comment but the sentiment that drove you to write it is what's wrong at the core of religion. Even if there was a god; this is the reason why we shouldn't worship that sort of evil, monstrous being.

 

[MJFlores]

You think they ignored the 7 churches in favor of predicting thousands of years in the future????

I don't understand. Please expound on this.

 

[MJFlores]

So (again, ignoring any scripture - please stop preaching at us) your god creates everyone, but he creates some who he's already decided are getting tortured forever? What makes you better than a monk who sets themselves on fire in protest of war, or than the numerous atheist charity groups who spend thousands of hours helping those who are worse off than them?

That claim is one of the most heinous, conceited claims that followers of Abrahamic religions make. It's disgusting. And I'm afraid if you're going to assert that you're just 'better' han those who don't believe what you do, I demand that you come up with actual evidence of that claim. Not the bible, because that can be demonstrated to be... problematic (to put it diplomatically)

It's one thing to say you know something the rest of us don't; but if you claim spiritual and moral superiority because of your personally held belief - you're crossing a line.

Your argument may be that my position is that secularism holds a better moral position, which it does, but that says nothing about me or you individually. I don't know you and despite this discussion, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that you're a better person through and through. I've certainly done nothing to elevate me from the masses.

You might also claim that you also withhold judgement on individuals. That would be false. If you believe your god will send them to hell and you also believe that your god is correct in whatever judgement he passes, then you're judging vicariously. It's a very thin veil.

I apologise if this post seems heated - I don't believe there was any malice in your comment but the sentiment that drove you to write it is what's wrong at the core of religion. Even if there was a god; this is the reason why we shouldn't worship that sort of evil, monstrous being.

Yah, you seem pissed over nothing.
Assuming what I believe is nothing.

Ah the peaceful Buddhist monks.

They just could do nothing wrong.

 

[Dan Mellis]

Yah, you seem pissed over nothing.
Assuming what I believe is nothing.

Ah the peaceful Buddhist monks.

They just could do nothing wrong.

No, I'm pissed about your claim that just because you believe something other than what I do, I'll be tortured forever and deserve it. And you will get paradise and deserve it.

If you honestly don't understand why that is so offensive, I'm going to disengage from the conversation.

My point wasnt that there are no bad buddhists. Of course there are. But you seem to be saying that because there are bad buddhists, that all of them are bad. That's a very big rock to be throwing in that glass house of yours. Would you like to talk about the sexual preferences of hundreds of christian priests? What about the crusades? Gay conversion camps? Or maybe the suggestion that condoms are worse than aids? Oh yeah! I forgot about the picketting of soldiers funerals!

But anyone with an iota of common sense won't equate those actions with all christians.

Religion makes people say and believe incredibly offensive things and lets them feel safe in the fact that theyre just 'right'

 

[joelr]

A god or gods and goddesses are written in some ancient scripture or carved in some ancient stone does mean that this god real.


If the only true God is written in the Bible which this book contains prophecies written a long time ago 1,500 years ago and then came true which we are witnessing ourselves.



That is why I know that the Bible has prophecies written before events unfolded.

And because gods are written about in the collection of stories in the bible does not mean they are real either.

The horse prophecies have been debunked, you couldn't challenge one single point.

Then there is also the hundreds of prophecies made in the bible that never happened.
Bible: Prophecy and Misquotes

God promised many times that the Jews would be the master race who all other cultures bowed down to. Instead they just kept being invaded.
There are over 200 predictions, prophecies and things god said would happen that did not happen.
Cherry picking 7 horses and matching then to vague random events over 1000's of years is a terrible attempt at trying to demonstrate a prophecy being fulfilled.
Each event you chose was not even the largest example of that event. But this isn't really a thing anyways, Christians do not use revelations as "proof of prophecies", no scholar or otherwise would be silly enough to try. It would just ruin their credibility right away.
Especially when they are supposed to appear in a sequence as written in revelations and your order of events has to go back in time !!! Ha!

The only thing that Christian scholars sometimes take away from revelations is that someday an end of times will happen. They don't map horses onto random events and pretend like that's a prophecy being fulfilled.[/QUOTE]