joeboonda
Well-Known Member
I read the posts replying to me above and it is simply too much to go through point by point and refute. KISS--keep it simple sam. I simply am stating my beliefs which you may do with what you like.
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What personality would one have who makes absolutely zero sense when writing their written words, who has horrid, if not borderline unreadable grammar and syntax, and who rejects every post against theirs as not being about Muhammed??
Any psychologists or budding psychologists out there want to take a stab?
In our simple language we say to those who acts like "I simply am stating my beliefs which you may do with what you like"
we refer to them in our simple language the ROLLING STONE GETHERS NO MOSS.
BUt don't worry I hope u will not do it again.
What verses of the Bible have I posted??
I can barely make out what you are trying to get at, let alone rebut it with passages.
I'd be more apt to post something from Merriam-Webster.
Then why need to interept into the post while I was asking about Bible!
Just leave coz I need to ask about Bible! please.....
Chhhhhhhhh!
O god, I don't know why u r Interepting, sorry1 i was addressing to Jeoboonda....
Plz plz my request to u, I need to ask about Bible who have scripture! I clearly addressed to Christain at my opening post.....
please Take a side, and sorry for......
I'm going to edit....
And now plz just leave i need from Biblical proof......
plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Where hav u lost aftre posting irelevant verses, jeoboonda!
come on the post or I'm going to wind up the whole post for conclusion!
Why you posted so by telling me "the proof of false prophet" while I said "Why your Bible say nothing about Muhammad?",
Reference to post # 52
I'm "interpreting" because you wanted to know why I posted Biblical verses that made no sense. I haven't posted biblical verses, either sensible ones or nonsensible ones.
My request to you is to find an English translator to type your garble into something readable. And for Heaven's sake, find a point.
Sure, if that's what you plan on starting to do.
It hasn't yet happened, but one can always be hopeful.
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
Good day all! Summia, you must have patience, I sometimes do not get back here for weeks. You asked why the Bible does not mention Mohammad, and I basically said it does when it refers to false prophets. It is not my intent to offend you but I must say what I believe or I would be lying. I respect that you believe in Allah, for belief in a higher power is, to me, a sign that you care deeply for spiritual things. We both know that Christianity and Islam, while having many things in common, do have differences. The Bible says Jesus is the Son of God who died on the cross to pay for all the sins of all the world as a free gift to any who believe in Him. It says on the third day He physically rose from the dead. Contrary to Mohammad who said Christ is not the Son of God (Allah has no son), and did not die on the cross (God provided a substitute or imposter). For a Bible-believer such as myself, this would constitute a false teacher. I must agree with the eye-witness accounts of the men who were there and recorded the events under the guidance of the Holy Spirit rather than one who came 500 years later and changed the story. I also would ask, who did Abraham place on the altar, Isaac or Ishmael? Before we had the Dead Sea Scrolls which are dated just prior to or around the time of Christ, our oldest Old Testament manuscript was from around 1100 A.D. which says Isaac was placed on the altar. Mohammad said Ishmael was placed on the altar. Well, the Dead Sea Scrolls, which are older than the Quran and the oldest manuscripts we had of the Old Testament, say Isaac was the one placed on the altar. So, here is a statement of Mohammad proven false, thus I conclude Him as a false prophet. (Among many other reasons). I am fairly certain we will not ever agree on these things, this is just what I believe, and you may believe what you wish, and I respect that.
I can understand but first Practice yourself the statement that u hav put forward for me "you must have patience". If u first showed the patience before putting false arguments from the verses of Bible, then SURELY u were not so called by me!
coz u were giving wrong argument for Allah's Last Prophet (Muhammad pbuh) then how can I stayed at Patience....
Take Care again.....
When some one comes to ask u about proof then what YOU basically say is not important but what your religion or authentic sources say matters all.
If you r a Christain who can YOU give argument from the Bible by YOUR assumptions? you must check first, what means the whole verse that I'm going to put forward for argument.
Look! It's not a fishing game, we r at the debate from RELIGIOUS SCRIPTURE.
But u did jeoboona!
Didn't u think while posting that u r going to post for My Prophet Muhammad pbuh whom I LOVE SO MUCH!
I said Take Care again!
How can u believe that today's Bible contains the same words that were recorded by the eye-witness accounts of men who were there?
That's what I'm saying. What is the garentee of living the Bible same about so many centuries hav passed?
If u r saying that Muhammad have changed the story, but i hav found no verse in the BIble describing so, EVEN in the commentry of the verses. it don't explains that Muhammad wil come and change the verses!
That's for what I have posted the thead,
"IF YOUR BIBLE SAIS NOTHING ABOUT MUHAMMAD THEN HOW CAN U SAY MUHAMMAD HAS CHANGED THE TRUE STORIES?"
Just wait I'm a head to check this what u r putting from ur mouth, coz now I'v no more trust on u based upon what u did before.
IF u say me again, " be patience" then I wil request u to stay with patience till I'll prove what u put the wrong argument again about altar story.
Putting words r so easy but practice is rather difficult. If u really respected then u would not put the false argument again about altar story.
I know it's totally false, but i hav not valid proof for u. So, i said wait till I bring the truth on the post.
coz u again offend me by putting false.
I don't offend by what YOU think aout Muhammad pbuh. BUt your FALSE proofs r really offended!
A man, change the story? wherez the proof FROM THE BIBLE that Muhammad pbuh chnages stories?
Look, how easy choices r that I'm giving to u, I'm saying Yeah! bring it from ur Bible about Muhammad pbuh was false narrator of stories.
If u fail then it will be clear proof that Bible is really changed!
Here is a very simple question - Do you or do you not want to hear about the Bible, or do you only want to hear about it so you can belittle it??
It is a very simple question to answer.
By the way, I have no bias towards you because you are Muslim, I have a bias because you come asking to learn, when it appears that you do not want to learn at all. I also have bias because I tend to respect the English language, and those who use it properly.
Sorry to bottom line you on this, but otherwise, I fear you will just keep pushing the same agenda over and over with the most consistently horrific display of English I have ever witnessed.
*Paul*
Jesus loves you
In the end - we do not need Mohammed, there is nothing that he can offer us because we have everything in Jesus, He is everything and everything was created for Him and we live in Him, He is our life and He has brought us to the Father. We do not need anything more than this, we have been set free from the penalty of sin and in Christ Jesus we have many great and precious promises and shall be joint heirs with Him.
Mohammed has nothing to offer us Summia.
Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Look at the comfort we have in Christ Jesus, He is the First and He is the Last.
He is Co-Equal with the Father who also is the first and the Last:
Isaiah 48:11-12 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another. Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last
Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
In Christ Jesus we do not need to fear death for He has the Keys of death and Hell, He lives forever and has conquered death and in Him we conquer death too, He who has conquered death has promised us eternal life because He loves us so.
We do not need another!
Mohammed has nothing to offer us Summia.
Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Look at the comfort we have in Christ Jesus, He is the First and He is the Last.
He is Co-Equal with the Father who also is the first and the Last:
Isaiah 48:11-12 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another. Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last
Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
In Christ Jesus we do not need to fear death for He has the Keys of death and Hell, He lives forever and has conquered death and in Him we conquer death too, He who has conquered death has promised us eternal life because He loves us so.
We do not need another!
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
Summia,
I honestly do not mean to offend you or your beliefs. I love everybody. If I love you, I must tell you the truth of what I believe even if it differs from what you believe. Trust me, I am not very patient either, you were asking where we went and threatening to close the thread, so I asked for you to be patient with me, as I am the one who was absent. I am not saying you are not a patient man, I am sure you are. I just ask you to have patience with me, a busy man. I understand you love Mohammad very much as I love the Lord Jesus Christ very much. I know it hurts when people tell me wrongful things about my Saviour, too, but I understand that they do not know Him or follow Him as I do and come from a completely different background, religion, perhaps even atheism, than I do and so I expect people not to agree with me. I am sure what I have learned about Mohammad and what you have learned are a bit different for sure.
As far as whether my Bible has changed over the centuries, from my studies only slight variances that do not change the meaning of the text have occured. We see this also from the Dead Sea Scrolls when compared to the earliest manuscripts we did have, they were virtually identical. We believe, I am sure as you believe about your scriptures, that God is able to preserve His Word for us. I surely would not question whether your scriptures changed significantly in the last 1400 plus years, I pray you will respect my scriptures as well. Our scripture even makes promises that God will preserve His Word to us forever. We believe if anyone tried to significantly change the text of the Bible, and people did try, that it would be caught right away. The copyists were very exact in their copying, especially the Jewish scribes who counted every letter backwards and forwards on each page, and went by very strict rules for copying.
And, you are correct, the Bible does not say specifically that Mohammad would change anything in the Bible, but it warns of false teachers and false prophets who would try to deceive people with false teaching and false doctrine. The point I made that although the Bible says Abraham placed Isaac on the altar, Mohammad said it was Ishmael, and although the Bible says Jesus was crucified on the cross, Mohammad said he was not, is, to me, teaching something other than what the Bible says. For me, if someone teaches something contradicting what the Bible says, which to me is God's Word, that person I have to consider a false teacher.
Although many of Mohammad's teachings were good, when it came to certain things, he differed from my Bible and I believe what the Bible says above all else. There are many things our religions have in common, yet many things we do not. We must respect each other and our differences and perhaps learn from one another. I know we will not agree on everything, you believe Ishmael was placed on the altar and I believe Isaac was, we just have to accept that. I believe Jesus died on the cross to pay for all my sins as a completely free gift of love, you do not believe that and I respect that. I am not a great debator, I really hate arguing with people about my beliefs, but I am willing to share my beliefs and when time permits try to give some explanation as to why I believe what I believe.
Again, I am sorry if I have made you angry in any way. I am too blunt and straightforward in saying exactly what I believe sometimes and I know people have been upset by it in the past. I will try to consider your feelings in future posts as I would want the same done for me. Well, Summia, I will 'talk' to you later. I love you with the love of God and pray for your well being. Take care, friend, and forgive me for any offenses, now and in the future.
Peace and Love,
Mike
I honestly do not mean to offend you or your beliefs. I love everybody. If I love you, I must tell you the truth of what I believe even if it differs from what you believe. Trust me, I am not very patient either, you were asking where we went and threatening to close the thread, so I asked for you to be patient with me, as I am the one who was absent. I am not saying you are not a patient man, I am sure you are. I just ask you to have patience with me, a busy man. I understand you love Mohammad very much as I love the Lord Jesus Christ very much. I know it hurts when people tell me wrongful things about my Saviour, too, but I understand that they do not know Him or follow Him as I do and come from a completely different background, religion, perhaps even atheism, than I do and so I expect people not to agree with me. I am sure what I have learned about Mohammad and what you have learned are a bit different for sure.
As far as whether my Bible has changed over the centuries, from my studies only slight variances that do not change the meaning of the text have occured. We see this also from the Dead Sea Scrolls when compared to the earliest manuscripts we did have, they were virtually identical. We believe, I am sure as you believe about your scriptures, that God is able to preserve His Word for us. I surely would not question whether your scriptures changed significantly in the last 1400 plus years, I pray you will respect my scriptures as well. Our scripture even makes promises that God will preserve His Word to us forever. We believe if anyone tried to significantly change the text of the Bible, and people did try, that it would be caught right away. The copyists were very exact in their copying, especially the Jewish scribes who counted every letter backwards and forwards on each page, and went by very strict rules for copying.
And, you are correct, the Bible does not say specifically that Mohammad would change anything in the Bible, but it warns of false teachers and false prophets who would try to deceive people with false teaching and false doctrine. The point I made that although the Bible says Abraham placed Isaac on the altar, Mohammad said it was Ishmael, and although the Bible says Jesus was crucified on the cross, Mohammad said he was not, is, to me, teaching something other than what the Bible says. For me, if someone teaches something contradicting what the Bible says, which to me is God's Word, that person I have to consider a false teacher.
Although many of Mohammad's teachings were good, when it came to certain things, he differed from my Bible and I believe what the Bible says above all else. There are many things our religions have in common, yet many things we do not. We must respect each other and our differences and perhaps learn from one another. I know we will not agree on everything, you believe Ishmael was placed on the altar and I believe Isaac was, we just have to accept that. I believe Jesus died on the cross to pay for all my sins as a completely free gift of love, you do not believe that and I respect that. I am not a great debator, I really hate arguing with people about my beliefs, but I am willing to share my beliefs and when time permits try to give some explanation as to why I believe what I believe.
Again, I am sorry if I have made you angry in any way. I am too blunt and straightforward in saying exactly what I believe sometimes and I know people have been upset by it in the past. I will try to consider your feelings in future posts as I would want the same done for me. Well, Summia, I will 'talk' to you later. I love you with the love of God and pray for your well being. Take care, friend, and forgive me for any offenses, now and in the future.
Peace and Love,
Mike
You mentioned about the Dead scrolls, it is corrupted. Coz it was held by Jews in past and ur own bible is awaking from this fact, herez
The old Jewish trick about Jews received the highest number of Prophets which then makes them GOD Almighty's "Chosen People" is nothing but a deception. In fact, it is a bad thing for the Jews that GOD Almighty kept sending them Prophets who many of them ended up getting killed anyway by the Jews themselves according to the Saying of Jesus peace be upon him below. We need to know that neither Moses nor Jesus nor many of the Prophets in the Bible really liked Jews! Let us look at the following:
From Moses:
"And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites(Jews), which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death? Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them. For I know that after my death ye will become utterly corrupt, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.
Ref: (Deuteronomy 31:25-29)"
From Jeremiah:
"How can you say, 'We [The Jews] are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.
Ref: (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"
From Jesus:
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
Ref: (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 23:37)"
And Christians says Isaac was placed at altar while referring their Scripture towards Dead Sea Scrolls which was handled by Jews in past.
And we also know that Isaac was the son of Sara and she was Jew.
Herez more argument about Yeah! It was Ishmael who placed at altar. And that is Ismaels name.
The name itself is from the root Samia, to hear, because Allah had heard Abraham's prayer (Noble Verse 37:100). Abraham's age when Ismail was born was 86.
Let us use some logic here: As I mentioned, the Bible claims that Abraham offered his son Isaac for sacrifice, and the Noble Quran claims that he offered Ishmael, who was 13 years older than Isaac for sacrifice. So, we have the Bible's word against the Noble Quran's.
As intelligent people with good common sense, we can tell what is true and what is false from the evidence provided. As mentioned above, if Ishmael means "to hear", then Abraham had named him as such, because Allah Almighty heard his prayer and granted him a son, his first-born son Ishmael.
Abraham was so happy to have his first-born son Ishmael at a very old age, that he named him a name that symbolizes his long patience and his gratefulness to GOD Almighty that he finally Heard Abraham and granted him his wish that he'd always wanted. Remember that Abraham was 86 when Ishmael was born. So Ishmael was NOT as the corrupted Bible claims, a not considered biological son to Abraham. Abraham adored Ishmael and loved him so dearly. The proof to this is as I said, Ishmael's name.
And look! Isaac means
I ask you!
Why u believe in Isaac sacrifice while Mosses and Jesus and Jeremiah have already warned you about Jews?
And why you take Isaac as sacrifice while its meaning are not matching to the altar rather Ishmael is true choice for altar?
And then after at false believes why you are putting your trust on them?
And after putting your trust on false believes how you dare to say about Muhammad pbuh as a false prophet?
I'm really weeping, jeoboona love nevers lie!
Yes, i'm also. but I'm not enforcing u to come, but i want to know why u lie for Muhammad pbuh?
if u really love then u must not say me about Dead Sea scrolls coz Jesus pbuh has already aware u from HANDY CHANGES IN BIBLE.
But I say i hav come from the true facts from the true religion. I have learnt to speak truth from my back ground. If there is some truth came to tell u about truth then why u used to put a lie to deny?
I know there r some poeple having differnt backgrouds but at least one hav an ability to listen the truth.
U can ask!
sure i have put the thread about misconceptions there.
That is the difference between Truth and FalseHood. Truth never say "please don't say so" Truth always claim coz it is trusted to be true.
wherez the proof of they have been caught?
again u r lying with me Alas! really Alas! and u say u respect and love for all! and still keeping lie!
Disgusting again!
Okay i hav no moe talk to u! I'm saying u again and again don't lie, don't lie and u still keeping lying, with our argument!
go way plz go way!
Muslims r taught to respect the Taurah and Injeel coz Bible contains some portion of Taurah and Injeel. Herez Quran says...
And who believe in that which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad)) and that which was revealed before you and are certain of the Hereafter (2:4)
These) are on guidance from their Lord and these are the successful ones (2:5)
Allah Almighty has sent Quran (last Book)to save ur own Book (Taurah and injeel), O fellows. and I really weep when I heard about what have been done with Bible. changed!
I really can't keep quite aftre knowing the truth.
Yeah! I have collected all samples of Bible and I have learnt the Hebrew to save this. I a Muslims girl. and as i'm writting my eyes are sheding, Why u o people of the book don't realizing the truth in ur own scripture.
Well how am i telling u so, who is not checking the real text and believeing false.
Bible has the prophecy of Muhammad pbuh. and cjeck the whole post. I have posted before and none of u reply.
How can u reply u even don't know the original text of Bible.
please if u again post me for ur clearification without reference and argument then don't need to post. I really don't realy on poeple hearing. not I but every authentic person don't like to listen without evidences.