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Native American mascots: OK or offensive?

Native American mascots:


  • Total voters
    55

DreamQuickBook

Active Member
Maize said:
Then why aren't we cooperating with the Native Americans? Or are they just expected to cooperate with us?

Why can't we do this one thing to show them respect?

We aren't cooperating with Native Americans. We've stuck em' out on reservations, killed off almost all that existed of their people, destroyed their land and committed the most horrific and unspeakable acts to their ancestors. No, so we give them what? A congressional commission? Some Casinos? No, we haven't cooperated with Native Americans and there ain't nothing we can do to make up for what we've already done. But even with all that, no one has a right to go around demanding the people change the names of their teams or the images of their mascots. Not even Native Americans. Because it's people demanding things they have no right to demand that leads to the kind of thinking the White Men that took all this land had when they first got here.
 

BUDDY

User of Aspercreme
If a person uses a term, not out of hatred, bigotry or any other negative emotion, but someone is still offended, is the person using that term a bad person? I guess what I am saying is that what most people are turned off by is the fact that they, as fans of (insert native american term here) team, they are deamed bad people. I don't believe that using a term that someone else doesn't like, makes me or anyone else, bad. Do you? Do you believe that someone elses opinion of terms and words, makes my use of those terms and words evil or wrong in any way?
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
EEWRED said:
If a person uses a term, not out of hatred, bigotry or any other negative emotion, but someone is still offended, is the person using that term a bad person? I guess what I am saying is that what most people are turned off by is the fact that they, as fans of (insert native american term here) team, they are deamed bad people. I don't believe that using a term that someone else doesn't like, makes me or anyone else, bad. Do you?
No. But I'd say most of those fans are unaware that the term offends other people. They just don't know. That's why we have to talk about it. Make people aware that these mascots are upsetting others. I know some people don't and won't care about that, but some will.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Maize said:
Native Americans say ... That's good enough for me.
No. Some Native Americans say. So, for example, this article notes in part ...
The mascot issue is most controversial at the local level. Although numerous schools have voluntarily taken action to cease using Native American symbols, (see sidebar) many school boards have refused to do so. Supporters of Native American mascots and nicknames point to surveys, such as the one published by Sports Illustrated in March 2002, which found that although most Native American activists found Indian mascots and nicknames offensive, the majority of non-activist American Indians were not disturbed by them.

American Indian activists explained the discrepancy in the Sports Illustrated article that accompanied the survey, saying, "Native Americans' self-esteem has fallen so low that they don't even know when they're being insulted."

Harjo, who is president of the Morning Star Institute, an Indian-rights organization in Washington D.C., stated in her essay, "There are happy campers on every plantation." Harjo implied that although many slaves may have been content with their lives in bondage, the institution of slavery still needed to be abolished and the same reasoning holds true for Native American mascots.

According to the Sports Illustrated survey, 87 percent of American Indians who lived off Indian reservations did not object to Native American mascots or nicknames. Of the Indians who lived on reservations, 67 percent were not bothered by the nicknames, while 33 percent opposed them.

In addition to the survey, those who would like to keep the traditional Native American nicknames give examples of American Indian tribes that have openly embraced schools and teams using their names. At Arapahoe High School in Littleton, Colorado, for example, the Warriors' school gym is named for Anthony Sitting Eagle, an Arapaho leader. Every year on Arapaho Day, tribal members come from the reservation to visit with students and teach Arapaho history and traditions. Tribal leaders have also advised the Warriors on how to make their logo authentic, and even persuaded the school to remove a painting on the gym floor because it was offensive to have students walk over it. Similar close relationships exist between Florida State University and the Seminole tribe, Central Michigan University and the Chippewa tribe and the Arcadia High School Apaches in California, who have a relationship with an American Indian tribe in Arizona.​
I honestly do not know if those statistics would still apply. You honestly don't know either. Sadly, you honestly don't appear to care, since painting Native Americans as monolithic and offended serves your presuppositions. Read back through your comments. Where do we find referrences to some Native Americans, or many Native Americans, or most Native Americans? Ironically, it appears to be you who is wedded by stereotypes. Or do you perhaps have statistics that you've yet to share?
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Fine. You all win. I'm no debater. I admit it. I give up. I just wanted to try to something, do the right thing for a people I love. I thought bringing this issue to light was it.

I'm sorry I tried.
:(
 

Ryan2065

Well-Known Member
Fine. You all win. I'm no debater. I admit it. I give up. I just wanted to try to something, do the right thing for a people I love. I thought bringing this issue to light was it.
I'll give you a hint. Find recent studies that show that most native americans think mascots are offensive. That is what Deut is asking you to do in his own way. =)
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Maize said:
I just wanted to try to something, do the right thing for a people I love.
Again the monolithic "a people I love". Were you doing the right thing for those Native Americans who disagree? There are few ideologies more mind-numbing than "Political Correctness".
 

kreeden

Virus of the Mind
Jocose said:
*yawns* You guys are still just talking about a bunch of symbols. Rape is violent. Violence is violent. Symbols are just symbols.
And if you knew what you were talking about Jocose , you would understand the violent associated with those symbols .



Man , has this thread taken off . :) Had to go back to page 12 to find Jocose's reply . But to address the idea of the poll . That is the democatic way , base it upon the majority . However , I do believe that both Canada , and the U.S. have either a Chapter Of Rights , or a Bill Of Rights , and I believe that those are in place for a very good reason . And as for the poll it's self , regardless of the out come , I am quite sure that my opinion will continue to be based upon how my friends , who are directly involved feels about it , more so that by a bunch of people I don't know . So , a poll would not change my opinion all that much .

And I don't give a d..... heck about political correctness . :)
 

kreeden

Virus of the Mind
NetDoc said:
I know, I know...

The Houston Wetbacks!

Isn't stereotyping fun!
Not sure what you are getting at there Doc ? But the way I see it respect has little to do with PC . And stereotyping usually makes the one doing it look like a total fool . { did I just stereotype stereotypish ... stereotypers ... you know what I mean } :)
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Precisely Kreedan

and those who want to perpetrate the stereotype of the "warring redman" look like total fools to me. I could not have said it any better. Couch it in any terms you want, but the stupidity of debating why we think racial stereotypes are "OK" is beyond me.

Lets see how far the "New York Hebes" goes.
 

DreamQuickBook

Active Member
NetDoc said:
Precisely Kreedan

and those who want to perpetrate the stereotype of the "warring redman" look like total fools to me. I could not have said it any better. Couch it in any terms you want, but the stupidity of debating why we think racial stereotypes are "OK" is beyond me.

Lets see how far the "New York Hebes" goes.

ALL MASCOTS ARE STEREOTYPES... gebus this conversation is getting silly.

Is anyone complaining about a Football team called the Bears? After all, Bears don't play football and they are not all ferocious beasts. Same with Lions. In a lot of Detroit Lions Images, the Lion is Blue! OMG! The outrage! Can you believe it? A blue lion! How degrading. Or how about the way those bigots in Atlanta exploit the Falcon. What about the Vikings?

Mascots are STEREOTYPES.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
You know... I might have an issue with Vikings now that you mention it. But since they are a dead civilization (like the Spartans), I don't think that I would care. But if there were any living relics then I would say to not use them.
 

kreeden

Virus of the Mind
Jocose said:
ALL MASCOTS ARE STEREOTYPES... gebus this conversation is getting silly.

Is anyone complaining about a Football team called the Bears? After all, Bears don't play football and they are not all ferocious beasts. Same with Lions.

Mascots are STEREOTYPES.
Well , I do have to agree with mascots being stereotypes .

And yea , I do sometimes have a problem with using animals as mascots ... but those problems ARE based upon personal reasons , and I let them go . I haven't had a Bear complain to me yet ...
 

Fluffy

A fool
Again the monolithic "a people I love". Were you doing the right thing for those Native Americans who disagree? There are few ideologies more mind-numbing than "Political Correctness".
Thats called kicking somebody when they are down. Its not a very nice thing to do.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
Netdoc, what do you think of the FSU Seminoles?

They have the Florida seminole tribe's permission to use the name, and the image. The tribe provides the horse that the mascot rides, and they do tribal dances for the team at the begining of the season?
 

Crystallas

Active Member
So if Native Americans don't have redskin, then why take offense to it? Skinning a person and calling thier appearance redskinned can be applied to any race.
Distorted spite... what a crazy thing.
 
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