Native American mascots: OK or offensive?

[Green Gaia]

Is it offensive or not a big deal for sports organizations, schools, businesses, ect., to use images and names of Native Americans?

Do you avoid sports teams and products who exploit such imagery?

Should schools and sports organizations be forced to stop using Native American mascots?

Do you feel the mascots accurately portray Native Americans? Is this portrayal harmful or helpful?

 

[Melody]

I'm not a native american so it doesn't offend me *but* it apparently offends native americans since it is a reminder of racial bigotry. So, for the sake of racial harmony, what can it possibly hurt for schools and organizations to change their mascots? My high school mascot was a wildcat and my university mascot was a penguin. Oh yeah...the fighting penguins! Yeesh.

 

[Green Gaia]

My high school's mascot was the 'Indians' but my college was the 'Wildcats'. I didn't really think about it in high school, but of course we were given the "white" man's verison of history too. Knowing what I know now, I think all Native American mascots should stop being used. After what "white" Americans did to the native peoples, it's just another slap in the face that we use their names and images in such a manner. Surely there are other teams names and mascots that could be used without insulting a whole group of people.

 

[painted wolf]

Just for the record "red-skin" is a racial slur and has been for more than a century. :149:

I find it odd that many think its ok to have a happy cliche big nosed red skinned bonnet wearing tomahawk wielding 'holywood beat' dancing indian... but if you had a team named the "jews" or to quote south park "the darkies" it would cause an uproar.

Just my take, but hey I'm biased

wa:do

 

[jamaesi]

The Jews aren't a part of the history of the country the way the Native Americans were.

My High School is the "Raiders." Of course, my history teachers are dirty liberals who completely ignore the textbooks and give us a real history of North America...

 

[Green Gaia]

The Jews aren't a part of the history of the country the way the Native Americans were.

I think the Jewish community would have something to say about your claim of them not being a part of American history... but I'll leave that for now, since that isn't the topic of this thread. Why do you think it's OK to exploit the Native Americans and use them as mascots since they were part of American history (and the present)?

 

[painted wolf]

The Jewish people are as much a part of American History as the Euro's and other people. :banghead:

So my being here first makes it ok to sterotype?

Where are the "pox-blankets"? How about the "slavers"? :tsk:

At what point do ethnic slurs become bad? When they upset a powerful minority and not a small one? When they arn't inconvienent?

wa:do

 

[ayani]

"chief wahoo" has always shocked and repulsed me. jeez, imagine trying to use a gross racial caricature of any other ethnic group as a team mascott. why do native americans get mis-represented this way in the first place? do most people just figure they're "gone" or something?

 

[lilithu]

I think it depends on the name in question. I think names such as "the Braves" and the "the Chiefs" are ok. They depict positive traits that the teams want to emulate, even if they are stereotypical. They're not much more stereotypical than "the Cowboys" and "the Vikings." Otoh, a name such as "the Indians" is questionable. How can an entire ethnic group be a mascot? We don't have any teams named "the Europeans" or such. And it goes without saying that a name such as "the Redskins" is offensive. I am ashamed that our nation's capital insists on using such an offensive name.

 

[linwood]

The term "ethnic slur" is highly subjective.

There have been suits filed in the name of the Seminoles by Oklahoman Seminoles .
Floridian Seminoles disagree with these suits because they like that FSU uses their name and Osceola as a symbol.
They enjoy the noteriety associated with their warrior culture.
Native Seminoles open home games with the dances of their forefathers and supply the FSU athletic department with the horse they use for a mascot.

So who is right?

PS. I realise the FSU example may be a bad one because there is no real derogatory icon or name associated there as with say the Clevelend Indians or washington redskins.
I guess the Seminoles enjoy it because they are respected in its use

 

[jamaesi]

The Jewish people are as much a part of American History as the Euro's and other people.

The Jewish people (and the Euro's and everyone else) weren't here long before the 1600s (or whenever they started coming over here) like the Native Americans, is what I meant.

 

[Fluffy]

I do not live in America so I must ask these questions first:

Are schools deliberately using these mascots to insult or degrade the Native American people? If not then what is it about them which is offensive? The fact that they are based on stereotypes?

 

[retrorich]

"chief wahoo" has always shocked and repulsed me. jeez, imagine trying to use a gross racial caricature of any other ethnic group as a team mascott. why do native americans get mis-represented this way in the first place? do most people just figure they're "gone" or something?

You are absolutely right, Gracie. I have argued long and hard against the Cleveland Indians' Wahoo logo--including many letters to the editor and financial support of a local Native American activist group. Unfortunately, Wahoo remains due to insensitivity and greed. The Chief Wahoo logo is probably the most recognizable logo in professional sports, and helps sell a lot of merchandise.

I hope the Cleveland Indians never have another championship season till they lose Wahoo!

Frubals to you.

(EDIT) Sorry, I have to spread some Karma around before I can give you more.

 

[Sunstone]

I do not live in America so I must ask these questions first:

Are schools deliberately using these mascots to insult or degrade the Native American people? If not then what is it about them which is offensive? The fact that they are based on stereotypes?

I don't think the mascots are deliberately intended to insult or degrade Native Americans, Fluffy. It's my understanding that they are seen as offensive because they trivilalize and stereotype Native Americans.

 

[Lintu]

I am not offended by them. I have been an Apache and a Warrior in schools, and I was kinda proud of it, to be honest, since my dad's ancestry is Apache. It is obviously horrible what was done to native americans, but I don't mind "Apache" living on as a symbol kids can be proud of. That said, I have been offended by our mascot costumes in the past, just because they are not done tastefully.

 

[fromthe heart]

I think when these names are given to teams it's not done in a way to demean anyone. Those who have school pride don't see it that way...they are proud of their teams. My brother and I used to play Cowboys and Indians...we grew up feeling the Indians were cheated out of their lives in this country...but we pretended to scalp each other if we were playing the Indian part. We didn't feel it was of less value to be the Indian in the game...that was actually the real warrior to us...so it all comes down IMPO to personal view and not a way to demean another culture. I feel that to be a picked on race is hard but could there be too much sensitivity taking place to suit a personal need. I have a GREAT deal of respect for the Native Americans...I also feel they still are being mistreated and if I could I'd do something about that...but not all acts such as naming a team is done to put down a part of our society and that is why we don't see team names such as slaves,Jews,etc. My brother and I used to make up ways the Indian would always win...go figure...we loved Indians and pretended to be them in many other games too because of respect for them and admiration for their strength to over come all they were dealt.


I mean this respectfully,

 

[Green Gaia]

I think when these names are given to teams it's not done in a way to demean anyone.

That may not be the intention, but what makes them think they have any right to use those names to begin with? It's certianly not done to help the Native Americans or honor their heritage. Europeans came to this land, tried to kill all the people already here, took their land, and when we couldn't kill them all, we rounded them all up and put them on land that wasn't of any use and left them there to starve and die. Racism against the American Indian is still very much an issue, and naming teams "Redskins" and having kids play the part of the "savage" Indian scalping people, is not helping the problem.

What gives "white" American any right to use any Indian name or image for any purpose?

Here are some great articles on this issue: http://www.racismagainstindians.org/UnderstandingMascots.htm

 

[Green Gaia]

Are schools deliberately using these mascots to insult or degrade the Native American people?

They would say no, and I do not believe they are used to deliberately be offensive. The only image that most non-native children view of Native people are of the mascots, so most children assume that Native people are dead or were warlike people. This stereotype diminishes the Native culture and is hurtful to many Native people.

If not then what is it about them which is offensive?

Our myths and legends that the Native people were bloodthirsty killers are perpetuated by the mascot. These myths are what psychologists deem "dehumanization", which is necessary in any war to justify the killing of people. Team names such as Red Raiders, Red Men, and Redskins maintain these disrespectful names. In other wars, we can remember the names used for Germans, "krauts," Japanese were "Nips", etc. But when wars are over we drop those names and show respect once again for people who are not our enemies. We have never dropped those names and perpetuate a war like attitude towards Native people by the continuance of those names.

The fact that they are based on stereotypes?

Yes, but there are other reasons as well. Most mascot names were chosen, and ceremonies using the feathers, drums, and clothing were developed, from the 1920s to the 1950s. During this period of time and up until 1978 it was illegal for Native people to practice their religion. Native people could be, and often were, imprisoned for using these same items in ceremonies. Ironically, while nonnative people were using sacred objects in mimicking the Indians at sports events, Native people had to stand by and watch their culture mocked while they themselves could not participate in the same activities in a religious way. This was not an honor then, and it is not an honor today. Do we not respect the religious rights of the original people in this land because we don't understand their religions? Our lack of understanding does not minimize its importance to Native people. By using objects considered sacred by Native people for sports events, in this land based on religious freedom we continue to deny Native people respect for their religion.

Oppression often happens in places that have mascots:

In Massachusetts, a team burns an Indian in effigy the night before a game.

In Minnesota, after a pep rally where the teachers and students dress up as cowboys and Indians, the cowboys yell ,"Get back to the reservation." After the rally, students beat up Indians.

In Kansas, a man who sought to remove the mascot was sent emails from students that threatened his home and the rape of his wife.

In Hutchinson, KS, a newspaper headline stated Orioles Gun Down Indians. Any place that runs headlines like this subliminally teaches our children that the massacre of Indians was a permissible event.

Having Native names also encourages opposing teams to yell Kill the Indian, Scalp the Sioux, etc. ...This hurts Native children terribly.

At UND, students opposed to the mascots have sought to change schools because their private property as well as school projects have been destroyed. T-shirts sport Indians having sex with buffalos saying, "Sioux buck the Bison". Read more about UND and see the t-shirt at: http://www.und.nodak.edu/org/bridges/index.html

In Wisconsin and Michigan, the oppression was so bad, parents had to remove their children from schools for being called Redskin and Red Boy, the names of the mascots. This is not unusual.

Because of the disrespectful ways in which Native people are portrayed at school ceremonies, many Native children are embarrassed to attend games. The woo-woo sounds, the face paint, the misuse of sacred feathers all cause embarrassment to Native people and are a direct violation of civil rights laws which state that all children must be able to comfortably participate in all activities in their schools.

Info from: http://www.racismagainstindians.org/UnderstandingMascots.htm

 

[Green Gaia]

For those who don't know:

The word Redskin derived from the practice of skinning Indians for easy transport when collecting bounty. The skin was removed from the top of the back and ran all the way down the legs. These skins were used for products such as reins, boots, belts, pouches, etc. Andrew Jackson, who was one of the worst enemies of the Native people, and by far the most brutal president towards Native people, collected the noses of every Indian he killed and encouraged the practice of skinning. Native people are not red. Mostly they range from tan to brown. Redskin comes from bloody skin.

Now, someone defend this term's use in American sports....

 

[Green Gaia]

but I don't mind "Apache" living on as a symbol kids can be proud of

Even if that symbol is stereotypical and historically inaccurate?