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My Issues With Romans One


Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
First of all, I really like your post overall-- that's the good news. :) Now for the bad.:(
You were doing REAL good until..... :mad:
With the above, it really doesn't answer the question as to why, assuming we take these narratives literally, would God punish innocent people,
How do you figure he was punishing innocent people in Romans 1? Didn't sound like they were very innocent.

such as we read in Exodus whereas God supposedly "hardened Pharaoh's heart" that led to the mass slaughter of innocents, including the Angel of Death? If I slaughtered innocents, what would you think of me? [probably no worse then you already do :(]

That's a deep question especially since all things aren't answer (not enough space in the world to answer all questions). But let me first speak about the horrible you! :D One can't compare the Mosaic Covenant with the Abrahamic Covenant as they are apples and oranges although both are fruity!

As far as I am concerned, we are back into the Abrahamic Covenant so we are horrible together and God still loves us! But back to the innocent of Pharaoh...

1) He tried to kill the first born of all male babies on birth
2) He did kill all the male children during the time of Moses
3) He enslaved all the Jews and did not pay the wages due to them.
4) He forgot the mercies that God had on Egypt in the time of Daniel
5) And this is probably just a short list of all the atrocities committed.

Usually, people zero in on all the first born that were kille by the Angel of Death and I suppose there are multiple ways of looking at it. Mine, of course, is always correct, but I know that I don't have to convince you of that! ;)

In Christian understanding, the Angel of Death is Satan. So, with that (Ken's) foundational point, let me see how evil God is.

1) Pharaoh had been serving Satan through all the false god's Satan had spawned which included prostitution, human sacrifices et al.
2) Satan, the one who had the power of death, really wants everyone stealing, killing and destroying. Could it be that God had placed His mercy over Egypt many times preventing the full murdering hatred of Satan from being manifested? In my view, God had stayed Satan's hand for years
3) Did God prevent any of the Egyptians from following suit with the Hebrews by placing blood on their doorposts? They had a track record of 9 plagues and many had started to believe that whatever YHWH had said to Moses was true.

Remember, if Jew didn't do it, their first born would also be killed by Satan and likewise if an Egyptian did it, their first born would be saved. Mercy was there for everyone, Mosaic judment was likewise applied to everyone.

And the possibility is that there were Egyptians among them Ex 12:37-38 "Then the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides children. A mixed multitude went up with them also."

4) Would the children of Egypt follow suit of their fathers? (These are questions that only God knows - but usually that is the case)
5) So God magnified who He was by setting the slaves free (God hates slavery as He also hates divorce), gave them back wages and set the stage to fulfill the promise to Abraham
It's narratives like this whereas I simply cannot accept, and I never been able to accept it btw, a literalist approach to interpretation.
Such a literalist! :rolleyes:
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Well-Known Member
Some people consider Christ like the twelfth or thirteenth avatar. Some theists don't believe Jesus even existed. My point is atheism is not the only way not to be Christian.

True, but we were discussing atheists in particular.