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Must Christians Be Happy All The Time?

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
angellous_evangellous said:
Happiness is not the goal of Christianity.

It's not? I want my money back...:149:
Not sure I'd word it like that.

I think we can all agree that we were all the configured the same for a reason. Sometimes it's hard to see it. To this day, I can look back at times of pain and think what would have happen if I didn't go through that? I have no idea.

I just know I did and it's part of who I am now. Could I have done just fine without those sad/painful times of my life? Who can't?

One thing is for sure, it's takes alot more for some people to see things. If it is pain what it took for me to see things in a certain light, then I will embrace it. I just hope I have the strength.
 

bigvindaloo

Active Member
Most Christians that come to the door appear extremely happy. Nothing wrong with that. I dislike giving "reasons" for not wanting to let them in. This makes them unhappy. So now I just tell them the "other guy" just dropped by. And they walk away happy.
 

Ezzedean

Active Member
Is there honestly a conversation going on right now with the harm in Christians always being happy? Good for them... who cares? What's so bad about being a happy person? You jealous? I work with a Christian women and she is always happy, kind, and always has a nice smile on her face. We have amazing talks and she is a very righteous women, so nice and pure... I don't understand what the problem is about being happy all the time? I try to be as happy and outgoing as possible aswell..

Peace and Blessings
 

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
Ezzedean said:
Is there honestly a conversation going on right now with the harm in Christians always being happy? Good for them... who cares? What's so bad about being a happy person? You jealous? I work with a Christian women and she is always happy, kind, and always has a nice smile on her face. We have amazing talks and she is a very righteous women, so nice and pure... I don't understand what the problem is about being happy all the time? I try to be as happy and outgoing as possible aswell..

Peace and Blessings

There's nothing wrong with being genuinely happy. I'd say that I am probably hovering somewhere between content and happy 99% of the time. The problem I see is not with those who think their faith has made them happier (that's certainly the case with me) but with those who seem to induce a euphoric state in themselves all the time as though this sort of ecstatic experience is what Christianity is about. They seem, frankly, to be self-medicating. Luckily I don't know many people like that but, as I said, a large number of the Christian Union folk at university were like this. They were, in fact, so bad and had such a noticeably changing effect on many of those that joined that the university's Anglican chaplain actually publically denounced the CU as a cult in one of his sermons. If you know anything at all about the Church of England then you'll see that only a truly extraordinary situation could have caused such a reaction. I had friends who were members of the CU and I do not believe in any way, shape or form that he was overreacting.

James
 

Snowbear

Nita Okhata
NetDoc said:
Joy and happiness, while completely distinct from each other are oft times confused.
Yeah - what 'Doc said :yes:

A person can have the Joy that comes from the Peace that passes all understanding and the Hope that comes from the assurance of salvation and still be completely miserable/unhappy emotionally due to whatever life has handed them at the time.

Is it "dangerous" for someone (not just Christians) to put on the happy face all the time?
Dangerous? Are you kidding? how could this be dangerous? Is she afraid that a Christian who puts on the game face of happiness all the time will 'turn people off' to the Gospel? If that's the case, the turned-off folks are likely just looking for another excuse not to believe anyhow.

Is it a lie to put on a happy face even when a person is hurting? I don't know the answer to that. I DO know from personal experience though, that allowing the sad face to show only makes people not want to be around the unhappy person... often because they don't know what to say or how to react. Putting on the happy face at least lets others avoid the discomfort of being around someone who's miserable. If someone truly cares, and asks... then there's no need to lie about it and it's OK to reveal the unhappiness.

No, I don't at all agree the "goal" of Christianity is to be "happy" all the time. As others have mentioned already, Jesus told us that we would experience tribulation. At the same time, He also promised we would not have to endure it alone. Knowing this gives us Peace... Which leads to the Joy that other posters have tried to describe... Which as 'Doc noted, is not necessarily the same thing as happiness.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Djamila said:
Being happy all the time would really suck.
And why is that, pray tell? Granted I am a "pathetically shallow and boring" Canadian devoid of the ability to "feel more at different levels", but I'll do my best.

*bats eyelashes annoyingly*
 

gnostic

The Lost One
I don't see anything wrong being happy.

I don't see how anyone can be happy all the time, though. It is unrealistic.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Halcyon said:
I disagree.

You disagree that we shouldn't be angry at injustice, heartbroken over loss, or be sad due to lonliness? We have these emotions for a reason.

I can't help but think that a person who is happy during great times of loss are emotionally unstable - driven to a brief period of hysteria and madness - or at the very least are hiding their true feelings with artificial bliss. I don't think that Christianity should be an artificial sweetener.

In Christianity, we have a tradition in which Jesus is empathetic to healthy mourning. Famously, the shortest verse in the Bible is "Jesus wept." The phrase is repeated in verse 35. The Greek word is not for simple, quiet weeping. It is a word picture that means Jesus was making noises like a horse - this is intense crying that we see people express at the loss of loved ones. To deny natural greif is to deny our humanity.

But the Christian mourns not hopelessly, because although we mourn we have the hope of resurrection.

Romans 12.15 - Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn.
Matt 5.4 - Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.

Jesus Comforts the Sisters

17On his arrival, Jesus found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb for four days. 18Bethany was less than two miles[a] from Jerusalem, 19and many Jews had come to Martha and Mary to comfort them in the loss of their brother. 20When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went out to meet him, but Mary stayed at home.

21"Lord," Martha said to Jesus, "if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask."
23Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again."
24Martha answered, "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."
25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"
27"Yes, Lord," she told him, "I believe that you are the Christ,[b] the Son of God, who was to come into the world."
28And after she had said this, she went back and called her sister Mary aside. "The Teacher is here," she said, "and is asking for you." 29When Mary heard this, she got up quickly and went to him. 30Now Jesus had not yet entered the village, but was still at the place where Martha had met him. 31When the Jews who had been with Mary in the house, comforting her, noticed how quickly she got up and went out, they followed her, supposing she was going to the tomb to mourn there.
32When Mary reached the place where Jesus was and saw him, she fell at his feet and said, "Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died."
33When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come along with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled. 34"Where have you laid him?" he asked.
"Come and see, Lord," they replied.
35Jesus wept.
36Then the Jews said, "See how he loved him!"
37But some of them said, "Could not he who opened the eyes of the blind man have kept this man from dying?" Jesus Raises Lazarus From the Dead

38Jesus, once more deeply moved, came to the tomb. It was a cave with a stone laid across the entrance. 39"Take away the stone," he said.
"But, Lord," said Martha, the sister of the dead man, "by this time there is a bad odor, for he has been there four days."

40Then Jesus said, "Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?"
41So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, "Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me." 43When he had said this, Jesus called in a loud voice, "Lazarus, come out!" 44The dead man came out, his hands and feet wrapped with strips of linen, and a cloth around his face.
Jesus said to them, "Take off the grave clothes and let him go."
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
If we were happy all the time I wonder if we would care about justice.

A man rapes a little girl in an alley and kills her, but that does not affect our happiness because we are happy all the time. Unaffected by such tragedy, we can merrily go on like nothing occured in our artificial bliss, not needing to see justice served - the parents themselves are still happy in our little bubble of hedonism.

We could happily let tyrants take over and blissfully work as slaves in concentration camps, allowing the tormenters to continually exploit us and our fellow human beings, keeping all of us from fully expressing our humanity in art, music, poetry, and scientific advancement. Being selfishly preoccupied with our happiness, we can neglect the poor who should be content and happy themselves in their poverty, wasting away without proper medical care, food, and clean water because we know that we would be just as happy without such things.:(

There are some things that should anger us! Happiness is not the only human emotion, and how shallow and selfish and indeed inhuman we are if it is all that we force ourselves to feel. We should be angry and sad that other human beings are being exploited in the sex industry, slavery, are starving, and killed unjustly in genocides. Our loved ones, who have provided so much for us, should be honored in their passing. We shouldn't be happy about or ignore the tragedy that surrounds us.

There is an old proverb in Seneca, "He who does not grieve at the loss of a loved one has not reasoned correctly."
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
angellous_evangellous said:
You disagree that we shouldn't be angry at injustice, heartbroken over loss, or be sad due to lonliness?
Yes.

angellous_evangellous said:
We have these emotions for a reason.
No, the emotions are a reaction but not a necessary response.

angellous_evangellous said:
I can't help but think that a person who is happy during great times of loss are emotionally unstable - driven to a brief period of hysteria and madness - or at the very least are hiding their true feelings with artificial bliss.
When the Buddha dies, many of his followers grieved and wept. But those that really understood his message simply smiled.

angellous_evangellous said:
A man rapes a little girl in an alley and kills her, but that does not affect our happiness because we are happy all the time. Unaffected by such tragedy, we can merrily go on like nothing occured in our artificial bliss, not needing to see justice served - the parents themselves are still happy in our little bubble of hedonism.
I wouldn't say we should be happy at an event like this, but giving into anger and sadness only acknowledges the actions of the criminal and focuses the attention onto him. Instead we should focus on the life of the girl, and on capturing the criminal to prevent further tragedy.

angellous_evangellous said:
We could happily let tyrants take over and blissfully work as slaves in concentration camps, allowing the tormenters to continually exploit us and our fellow human beings, keeping all of us from fully expressing our humanity in art, music, poetry, and scientific advancement.
There is a difference between trying to be happy most of the time, and being a moron.

angellous_evangellous said:
Being selfishly preoccupied with our happiness, we can neglect the poor who should be content and happy themselves in their poverty, wasting away without proper medical care, food, and clean water because we know that we would be just as happy without such things.:(
A happy person is the most compassionate.

angellous_evangellous said:
We should be angry and sad that other human beings are being exploited in the sex industry, slavery, are starving, and killed unjustly in genocides
No, we should let the emotion go and focus on bringing the suffering to an end.

angellous_evangellous said:
Our loved ones, who have provided so much for us, should be honored in their passing. We shouldn't be happy about or ignore the tragedy that surrounds us.
I agree that they should be honoured, but that their lives should be honoured not their deaths. We should accept the tragedy rather than dwelling on it.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
angellous_evangellous said:
If we were happy all the time I wonder if we would care about justice.
Clearly, many of your misunderstand what I am saying. Perhaps I did not explain clearly enough. I never thought I'd see the day that people implied there was something wrong with me for insisting that people can become much happier than they already are. The implications are somewhat staggering to my mind and would seem to be indicitive of just WHY we are in the mess, we are currently in.

But... this tells me one thing. None of you understand what I am really meaning about "peace of mind" and what it takes to achieve that. The ultimate kick in the head for many of you will be when you understand that peace of mind can only be found by exploring and FEELING each and every emotion as deeply as is needed to learn something meaningful FROM the experience. Men in particular have difficulty understanding this as as a society we have made "feelings" and "emotion" a pretty low priority. I wonder why it is that so many feel it is a sign of weakness, or a character flaw to openly display DEEP EMOTION. Big boys don't cry, after all. Keep that stiff upper lip.

angellous_evangellous said:
A man rapes a little girl in an alley and kills her, but that does not affect our happiness because we are happy all the time. Unaffected by such tragedy, we can merrily go on like nothing occured in our artificial bliss, not needing to see justice served - the parents themselves are still happy in our little bubble of hedonism.
Unless, of course ones bliss is temporarily thrown for a loop by man's inhumanity to his fellow man. A_E, what you don't get is that such things hit even harder because they are in such stark juxtoposition. It is almost like the bliss recoils in horror as the emotional impact breaks through the beauty and peace. The empathy that rebounds from such experience beomes a huge motivator to see that justice is done... to help the persons affected. Could there be any other way? If one just flashed a grin and found something amusing about their plight then I would say that is the sign of a monster. That is not at all what I am meaning. And frankly A_E, during events like Katrina and 911 I was so numbed by the experience that the only thing I could do was FEEL for those affected. No, A_E, my normal state of bliss ran for cover on those days and was temporarily replaced by the utter horror of it all. And yes, it DID take a few days to "bounce back". What you and many others do not grasp is that bliss may well be a permanent state, but it is hardly a continuous state to the exclusion of all others. Quite the opposite, actually.

angellous_evangellous said:
We could happily let tyrants take over and blissfully work as slaves in concentration camps, allowing the tormenters to continually exploit us and our fellow human beings, keeping all of us from fully expressing our humanity in art, music, poetry, and scientific advancement.
That is where you are quite wrong A_E, even if the statement is mostly hyperbole. There is no possibility that one could LET these things happen. It is inconceivalbe that someone in a state of bliss could idly sit by. You see, my friend, their bliss would aready be affected. It is not a case of jealous egocentric "I WANT MY FRICKEN BLISS BACK, NOW" either. A_E, it is because the bliss is temporarily replaced by pain, sadness and sorrow that motivates the person INTO ACTION. Can I make it any clearer? It is the STARK juxtopositon to the bliss that POUNDS the point home indellibly.

Do you have the slightest conception of how incredibly sad it makes me to FEEL a NEED to explain to people HOW to be happy? Bliss does not come at the expense of all other emotions or the reasoning process itself, but In stands in stark conrast.

angellous_evangellous said:
Being selfishly preoccupied with our happiness, we can neglect the poor who should be content and happy themselves in their poverty, wasting away without proper medical care, food, and clean water because we know that we would be just as happy without such things.
Again, you are thinking that this is a persuit of happiness. That is not what I am saying. Again, HAPPINESS, true happiness, is a RESIDUAL effect of inner peace and once you have inner peace you do not have to work at BEING HAPPY. You DO have to work at building inner peace, and THAT is the point. What you and so many others do not understand is that that building process is directly proportionate to how well you express or LET YOURSELF express emotion. Think of it like wandering through life with a perma grin on your face and continually having buckets of very cold water thrown at you. It tends to make one sit up and pay attention all the more.

angellous_evangellous said:
There are some things that should anger us!
Trust me A_E, in my bliss, I still get anger. You are under the illusion that bliss somehow suplants all other emotions. It most certainly does not. You see, A_E, when I am angry, I know perfectly well WHY I am angry, otherwise I would not have gotten angry in the first place. I do however ALLOW myself to EXPRESS that anger, often with rather stunning clarity. I ALLOW the anger to run its course however. I do NOT clamp down on it... well... depending on the situation that is. Sometimes I will have to transmute the anger into motivation and act... and save the anger to savor later.
What I am meaning is that sometimes when angry, you cannot give into the anger, and you must ACT to resolve a situation. I will check my anger at the door, deal with the event and then go have a cigarette and let the smoke exit from my ears. THIS is the time that I will often find something amusing... NOT ALWAYS... but a lot of the time.

angellous_evangellous said:
Happiness is not the only human emotion, and how shallow and selfish and indeed inhuman we are if it is all that we force ourselves to feel.
Indeed it would be A_E, indeed it would. This is actually one of my pet peeves about "positive thinking" types, even though I am in fact, a die-hard optimist. My glass REALLY is half full and I do not apologise for that outlook. When one is pretending things are a given way, then one is in very hot water.

Sorry, I am momentarily spent. Again, if only you could sense my profound sadness that people do not know HOW to be happy. It is my sad delusion that if people were GENUINELY happy there would not BE concentration camps. There would not BE any rapes.... etc....

*Sigh*
 

BrandonE

King of Parentheses
YmirGF said:
Sorry, I am momentarily spent. Again, if only you could sense my profound sadness that people do not know HOW to be happy. It is my sad delusion that if people were GENUINELY happy there would not BE concentration camps. There would not BE any rapes.... etc....
But can a universal state of bliss for all people ever be expected to occur? Surely your bliss is (l)earned by your passage through life. Some get there sooner, and some may never get there. I wouldn't disagree that the pace of modern western life is an impediment to the achievement of this state (as you seem to me to be implying), but surely, even in a simpler way of life the way to this state is not immediately apparent to all people. Or am I wrong?

I realize I'm drifting off the original topic, but this conversation is interesting.

Your response and Halcyon's responses seem to indicate that the two of you share a common idea of what the state of "inner peace" entails, and I think I agree with your conception. However, it seems to me that we must consider whether this state that you and he (and I) agree on is in fact the only valid state of bliss/enlightenment/inner peace available to the human experience, or is it at least in part determined by our individual disposition toward such an expression. Might someone else be internally tuned to a more "active" expression of the same ultimate state, or is there in fact only ONE expression of this state? Maybe the problem is that I simply don't fully comprehend the state you're desribing Paul. At any rate, I really am far afied now, and that line of questioning might make an interesting thread in itself.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
YmirGF said:
Clearly, many of your misunderstand what I am saying. Perhaps I did not explain clearly enough.

I was not responding to you, so I don't see how this is a relevant response to me.

I never thought I'd see the day that people implied there was something wrong with me for insisting that people can become much happier than they already are. The implications are somewhat staggering to my mind and would seem to be indicitive of just WHY we are in the mess, we are currently in.

I was clearly responding only to the idea of Christianity requiring people to be happy all the time. I have seen Christianity wrongfully applied in this manner, where hedonistic pastors teach that God wants people to be happy in every situation in life, which is madness, as Halcyon correctly put it.


But... this tells me one thing. None of you understand what I am really meaning about "peace of mind" and what it takes to achieve that. The ultimate kick in the head for many of you will be when you understand that peace of mind can only be found by exploring and FEELING each and every emotion as deeply as is needed to learn something meaningful FROM the experience. Men in particular have difficulty understanding this as as a society we have made "feelings" and "emotion" a pretty low priority. I wonder why it is that so many feel it is a sign of weakness, or a character flaw to openly display DEEP EMOTION. Big boys don't cry, after all. Keep that stiff upper lip.

That's pretty much how I feel, too.

Unless, of course ones bliss is temporarily thrown for a loop by man's inhumanity to his fellow man. A_E, what you don't get is that such things hit even harder because they are in such stark juxtoposition. It is almost like the bliss recoils in horror as the emotional impact breaks through the beauty and peace. The empathy that rebounds from such experience beomes a huge motivator to see that justice is done... to help the persons affected. Could there be any other way?

I don't see where you get evidence that I don't "get" something you've said when I have not addressed it at all ... but I like what you have to say in the following.

If one just flashed a grin and found something amusing about their plight then I would say that is the sign of a monster. That is not at all what I am meaning. And frankly A_E, during events like Katrina and 911 I was so numbed by the experience that the only thing I could do was FEEL for those affected. No, A_E, my normal state of bliss ran for cover on those days and was temporarily replaced by the utter horror of it all. And yes, it DID take a few days to "bounce back". What you and many others do not grasp is that bliss may well be a permanent state, but it is hardly a continuous state to the exclusion of all others. Quite the opposite, actually.

Then you're not happy all the time, and my criticism does not apply. I am criticizing the idea that people should be happy all the time, and if the happiness leaves you, you're not happy and not an advocate of being happy all the time and you give excellent examples of precisely what I am saying.

That is where you are quite wrong A_E, even if the statement is mostly hyperbole. There is no possibility that one could LET these things happen. It is inconceivalbe that someone in a state of bliss could idly sit by. You see, my friend, their bliss would aready be affected. It is not a case of jealous egocentric "I WANT MY FRICKEN BLISS BACK, NOW" either. A_E, it is because the bliss is temporarily replaced by pain, sadness and sorrow that motivates the person INTO ACTION. Can I make it any clearer? It is the STARK juxtopositon to the bliss that POUNDS the point home indellibly.

If the bliss is replaced by sadness and sorrow, then they are not in bliss at that moment and therefore experiencing and expressing other emotions in a healthy way = not happy all the time.

Do you have the slightest conception of how incredibly sad it makes me to FEEL a NEED to explain to people HOW to be happy? Bliss does not come at the expense of all other emotions or the reasoning process itself, but In stands in stark conrast.

Then my argument does not apply to you in the least.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
BrandonE said:
Your response and Halcyon's responses

I detect very important differences between Halcyon and Paul's responses, so much so that they are hardly related.

This...

Halcyon said:
No, we should let the emotion go and focus on bringing the suffering to an end.

is essentially at odds with....

YmirGF....Paul said:
peace of mind can only be found by exploring and FEELING each and every emotion as deeply as is needed to learn something meaningful FROM the experience. Men in particular have difficulty understanding this as as a society we have made "feelings" and "emotion" a pretty low priority. I wonder why it is that so many feel it is a sign of weakness, or a character flaw to openly display DEEP EMOTION.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
angellous_evangellous said:
I detect very important differences between Halcyon and Paul's responses, so much so that they are hardly related.
Yes, I detected that too and I think that is what precipitated my remarks. Normally, I am in agreement with Halcyon, just to keep the record straight.

BTW, A_E:

I apologize for any misunderstanding. I should not have doubted you, nor should I have singled you out. Thanks for the platform though. :)
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
YmirGF said:
I apologize for any misunderstanding. I should not have doubted you, nor should I have singled you out. Thanks for the platform though. :)

No need for an apology. It's easy to misunderstand folks here.:yes:

Actually, I really appreciated this:

I am really meaning about "peace of mind" and what it takes to achieve that. The ultimate kick in the head for many of you will be when you understand that peace of mind can only be found by exploring and FEELING each and every emotion as deeply as is needed to learn something meaningful FROM the experience. Men in particular have difficulty understanding this as as a society we have made "feelings" and "emotion" a pretty low priority.

...which is sorta where I wanted to go...
 

choirboy

Member
Of course they have to be happy they have Jesus. And a lot of other imaginary stuff.
THis is from my perspective as an atheist of course.

Just the idea of having something that does not exist can make you happy. Things such as eternal life and eternal hell for all those disagree with you. The belief that you have god's love.

A lot of churches have emotive ceremonies, involving testamonials rock music and choral music. People confuse the feeling of sublimeness they get from listening to a piece like Rachs Vespers in church with the presence of some theistic god. I once went to a ceremony with a girl I was interested in where people got up and sang and gave testemonials. Afterwards she told me she had felt god. No you just had a good time.

Father Christmas used to make me happy but unfortunately...
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
choirboy said:
Afterwards she told me she had felt god. No you just had a good time.

Evidence that good feelings are mutually exclusive of divine presence and activity would be useful for the atheist cause.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Feelings of anger, sadness, vengeance, jealousy, loss: These are feelings that cause us to focus on the self. Feelings of love, happiness, generosity, kindness: These are feelings that cause us to focus on others -- on building relationship. Isn't this, after all, the whole paradigm of Christianity, and, more importantly, how we are supposed to relate to God?

There's a difference, as someone said, between blind ecstasy, choosing to ignore the vagaries of life, and the contentment that comes with working to build good relationship with others.
 
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