Muslims Only: Nation of "Islam"?

[Assad91]

Like i said many Shia's "leaders" have developed Shiaism into something alien of Islam but the original and orthodox view was not that far of Sunism. If we look at history the Shia's always lived in a Sunni Caliphate's for a reason, they were seen as Muslims. Was it not Iraq and Iran were the greatest scholars came from?

Relevance? History is history. Are the Shia today the same as they were then?

Do you think the bidah I mentioned is okay? And not worthy of takfir?

Prophet-like Imams, New prophet/messiah, racist polythiest claiming Islam. They all are bad. Don't overlook and excuse the bidah of shia, while also making takfir on ahmadiyyah. Its just plain hypocritical.

 

[F0uad]

Relevance? History is history. Are the Shia today the same as they were then?

Do you think the bidah I mentioned is okay? And not worthy of takfir?

Prophet-like Imams, New prophet/messiah, racist polythiest claiming Islam. They all are bad. Don't overlook and excuse the bidah of shia, while also making takfir on ahmadiyyah. Its just plain hypocritical.

How is it hypocritical when i say that both are UnIslamic? You are the one debating that one evil is better then the other evil, i am saying No both are bad.
There are still large groups that follow orthodox Shiasm i am not going to call them non-muslims or kuffar. Staying on the original argument i made all sects are bad and can be compared with each other because they all divide Muslims what is clearly forbidden in the Quran. So saying that one Sect is alright or better then a other sect is just accepting there kuffar beliefs.

 

[noh950]

He is my answer briefly: the Nation of Islam are pure Kaffirs (disbelievers), and there is no doubt about it.

 

[beenie]

I really wish people would stop throwing the word "kaffir" around like it's the latest catch-phrase. Since when did Allah prescribe Muslims to label others?

 

[Gharib]

I really wish people would stop throwing the word "kaffir" around like it's the latest catch-phrase. Since when did Allah prescribe Muslims to label others?

It is dangerous to call people who claim to follow Islam kuffar.

In this case though, to believe that Allah himself has descended on earth and whatever else these 'Nation of Islam' people believe is nothing short of kuffr.

 

[Assad91]

I really wish people would stop throwing the word "kaffir" around like it's the latest catch-phrase. Since when did Allah prescribe Muslims to label others?

Allah (swt) said shirk is the worst sin. And it is an act ofo kuffar. It takes you out of the fold of Islam. So yes, they are not muslim, they are kafr

 

[F0uad]

We have to stop being wimps we have to call people as they are, so i should say Un-Islamic, Un-Islamic instead? So i can't say that believing in a incarnated god is kuffar?

If that is the case i am pretty sure we will in the near future will accept all ideologies, we have to call unbelievers and un-islamic teachings as they are. Moreover i never said one certain group is kuffar or individual people are, i said some of there teachings are kuffar.

 

[beenie]

Why are you so interested in calling people "kaffir" anyway? Do they have to be labeled? Does it help you sleep better at night to call people "kaffir"?

 

[Assad91]

Why are you so interested in calling people "kaffir" anyway? Do they have to be labeled? Does it help you sleep better at night to call people "kaffir"?

Would english translation be better? (nonbeliever)?

 

[beenie]

I don't know. We spend so much time labeling people and deciding who is believing, who's right, who's wrong... and then we wonder why Muslims can't unite.

 

[Assad91]

I don't know. We spend so much time labeling people and deciding who is believing, who's right, who's wrong... and then we wonder why Muslims can't unite.

Then what would you call NOI? Are they believers? Do you disagree with anyone who points out they ae out of the folds of Islam due to shirk?

What should we call these people who believe Allah swt came incarnated, and that white people are devils, and preach a stong black nationalism?

 

[Gharib]

Why are you so interested in calling people "kaffir" anyway? Do they have to be labeled? Does it help you sleep better at night to call people "kaffir"?

Sister, the OP was asking if these people are Muslims since they claim that Allah took human form and came to earth etc.

But Nation of Islam actually believe that GOD himself came to Earth in human form. This is the worst kind of blasphemy and fabrication if less against God. Have they not read their Quran? This clearly makes them non-Muslim. Any opinions on this matter? I'd especially love to hear from NOI members.

And being Muslims, we must speak against falsehood. Islam teaches that.

 

[SonofAdam]

I've met many people who tell me initially that they are Muslim. Then later I find out they are Nation of Islam. This is very misleading. There are many sects of Islam that I may not agree with. Some even claim to believe in a messenger after Prophet Muhammad. While I may not agree with them, I won't call them Non-Muslims because every still believe Quran is from the creator. But Nation of Islam actually believe that GOD himself came to Earth in human form. This is the worst kind of blasphemy and fabrication if less against God. Have they not read their Quran? This clearly makes them non-Muslim. Any opinions on this matter? I'd especially love to hear from NOI members.

They are saying basically is that a human on earth is god. This is one of the things that automatically means they're no longer following the religion. I heard about them a while go, it's ridiculous.

 

[cocolia42]

I've met many people who tell me initially that they are Muslim. Then later I find out they are Nation of Islam. This is very misleading. There are many sects of Islam that I may not agree with. Some even claim to believe in a messenger after Prophet Muhammad. While I may not agree with them, I won't call them Non-Muslims because every still believe Quran is from the creator. But Nation of Islam actually believe that GOD himself came to Earth in human form. This is the worst kind of blasphemy and fabrication if less against God. Have they not read their Quran? This clearly makes them non-Muslim. Any opinions on this matter? I'd especially love to hear from NOI members.

I'm from NJ and there are a LOT of NOI followers here. In my opinion, they are non-Muslim. Many of the one's that I've met refer to themselves (and other members) as gods. They change their names, giving themselves Allah's names. They are proudly involved in illegal activities. In fact, it embarrasses me as a Muslim to be grouped in with them. I'd much rather be labeled a terrorist than a member of the NOI.
{I'm not suggesting every follower of the NOI behaves the way those I have met behave, I'm just stating my experience}

 

[Rational_Mind]

It is disgusting that the amount of speculation that is happening here and how much takfir has gone out. Arrogance is among the greatest sins, the cause of rejection of Prophets of God, best demonstrated by Iblis when he refused to submit.

1. A lot of people are talking trash while no NOI member is here to represent themselves. How do you even know that they aren't using the term Son of God in the metaphorical sense. Have you not read the Quran and Hadith were Prophets are described as manifestation of God. How do you know they are literally making a reference. Or even so that only some of them engage in Shirk? Maybe some of you should get comfortable being labelled as terrorists because just a heads up, Al-Qaeda, Taliban, and most other terrorist organizations that were also hand fed by USA (hypocrites) are Sunni. So if you are comfortable painting the same brush all over get comfortable getting painted all over.

2. The Holy Quran instructs not to insult other God's so that they don't insult the One True God, Allah (swt). Maybe you guys should learn something from that, even Allah (swt) has gone so far as to restrict insulting outright lies, such as IDOLS! Think for a second, you are a Muslim learn better conduct.

3. A few arrogant people who believe they are following the Islam 1400 yrs back by apparently following the Sahaba, should be reminded that while the Holy Prophet (saw) was alive people claimed Prophethood. Yet Muslims did not respond as you do today. So maybe it is time to read true history and listen to less lectures from online "Scholar" celebrities. It appears to me that those most arrogant of being Ahle Sunnah are very very unfamiliar with the Sunnah and life of Sahaba. And whenever they are reminded and lose they respond like children.

Enough Said.

 

[Assad91]

Don't get mad just because you feel left out of the conversation. NOI proudly state their belief of fard muhamad being god in flesh. look it up before you say we dont know

 

[Rational_Mind]

Don't get mad just because you feel left out of the conversation. NOI proudly state their belief of fard muhamad being god in flesh. look it up before you say we dont know

I don't see a point in discussing this without hearing from both sides. As an Ahmadi I know first hand how much false facts are stated by mainstream Muslims. I can easily cite websites that make claims all abroad and many are accepted by even members of RF. Ranging from saying the Promised Messiah (as) claimed to be God (god forbid) to Promised Messiah (as) abrogating the Quran (god forbid). People will say anything to hide the truth, so that they can try and stop their children from finding the Imam of the Age and a unity of Khilafat that they so greatly desire. So I would rather hear from NOI representatives before accepting it.

Left out of the conversation, I am thankful I did not join a conversation of takfir competition. May God have Mercy on Our Souls.

 

[Assad91]

Dude go to noi.org or google their website newspaper final call. Hell you can even go read Yahya Waheeds threads since he talks and supports them. Don't accuse me of being wrong when you cant even look jhe group up online to learn what they teach and believe. Look up their current leader Minister Farrakhan then come back and apologize or point out how I am wrong.

Don't Ahmadis believe saying a man is god is shirk?

 

[Rational_Mind]

Dude go to noi.org or google their website newspaper final call. Hell you can even go read Yahya Waheeds threads since he talks and supports them. Don't accuse me of being wrong when you cant even look jhe group up online to learn what they teach and believe. Look up their current leader Minister Farrakhan then come back and apologize or point out how I am wrong.

Don't Ahmadis believe saying a man is god is shirk?

So I learned a lot of stuff today reading NOI websites and wikipedia. For example, a lot of complete falsehood was shared on RF by fellow Muslims.

All I am going to advise is to read up before spreading falsehood the two cent online "Scholars" post on youtube.

1- NOI doesn't share scientology beliefs, such as aliens comings, spaceship, etc... The only thing they share with them is belief in Dianetics.

2- NOI doesn't believe that Master W. Fard Muhammad was God the way Christians take Jesus (as) to be God in person.

3- Interesting Macolm X and Muhammad Ali were both initially brought to Islam through NOI latter converting to Sunni Islam. Muhammad Ali later converted to Sufism.

Master Fard Muhammad was born February 26, 1877 in the Holy City of Mecca. He's obviously not the Originator of the Heavens and the Earth, and is therefore one who was created by the Almighty. But He was called into existence to perfect the Will and Work of the Originator, Himself being Supreme in Knowledge, Wisdom, and Power. We've never said that He was the Originator. Yet still, today, He, Master Fard Muhammad, is the Supreme of Beings. We have a picture of Him reading the Holy Qur'an, which is, in itself, a form of prayer. I would encourage you to study more about the Mahdi and the Messiah, and anything you can find about the Christ. You'll be better able to recognize them when you realize that they've appeared among us in the person of Master Fard Muhammad (Mahdi) and the Honorable Elijah Muhammad (Christ). I hope this little article helps you understand better and clears any confusion you may have. Trust Minister Farrakhan, he will not lie to you, he is a rightly guided teacher for us from Allah.
..::The Nation of Islam ..::Muhammad Mosque Number Six

[49:7] O ye who believe! if an unrighteous person brings you any news, ascertain the correctness of the report fully, lest you harm a people in ignorance, and then become repentant for what you have done.

May Allah (swt) grant me the capacity of doing so. I do not want to fall on the same sword that others have used against the followers of the Promised Messiah (as).

 

[Assad91]

1- NOI doesn't share scientology beliefs, such as aliens comings, spaceship, etc... The only thing they share with them is belief in Dianetics.

[SIZE=+2]THE MOTHER PLANE[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]The following statement was made by the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad:[/SIZE]
"It is dangerous to declare was and opposition against God (Allah). It is foolish to think that you have the power and the skill to block God's Plan; it is foolish. Today, America's Government is trying to absolutely hide the knowledge of what she sees and what she hears of the truth. As God (Allah) has said to me, and I have taught it to you, that there is a plane in the sky above America, made like a wheel, which is the fulfillment of the prophecy of Ezekiel 10th Chapter, 1st Verse; that he saw it in a vision, that it rose up from the Earth so high that it looked dreadful, and that there was nothing above it except the starry canopy.
Today, that Plane is in the air and the scientists and the astronomers of America, have seen it here. Mr. Khowule, an ex-General of the United States Armed Forces of America, bears me witness that it is up there, and have dotted around America's planes in the sky, her in America. He wrote a book on it and condemns America for keeping it a secret. But the Government wants to make it all a lie, that there is nothing like this going on, that there is no truth to no flying saucers! Maybe there is no truth to no 'NATURAL FLYING SAUCER," but there is plenty of truth to CIRCULAR PLANES! ! ! Planes made like a wheel up in the sky! ! ! There's plenty of truth to that, and the scientists and astronomers bear me witness here in America, that it's up there.
The Mother Plane was shown to me, now 30 years ago, by God Himself (Master Fard Muhammad). I have seen this Plane and have sketched it many times. As Almighty God (Allah) sketched it to me, I followed the sketching of His. Today, you would like to dismiss it as a lie, but those who peep through the glass (the telescope) and see this plane, do not consider it a lie.
With my own eyes, along with mt wife, and my sons, and my laborers with me and other people here in Phoenix this year, in May, stood and looked at that same Plane dotting through the sky. An absolute Man-Made-Planet, moving at such terrific speed that you could hardly imagine it; flickering amid the stars of Heaven. Out of the reaches of your (the Devil's) fire, you can't reach it, you can't shoot it down; it's impossible! You can't go to it, you can't capture it; it's impossible! I say, my listeners, "Know that the doom, the Judgement approaches. Know that it is time to repent."

The Mother Plane

2- NOI doesn't believe that Master W. Fard Muhammad was God the way Christians take Jesus (as) to be God in person.

I don't know where you get your information. But here on their official website,

Upon the Master's departure in 1934, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad labored tirelessly to bring life to his mentally and spiritually dead people until his return to the Master in 1975. The Honorable Elijah Muhammad identified the Master as being the answer to the one that the world had been expecting for the past 2,000 years under the names Messiah, the second coming of Jesus, the Christ, Jehovah, God, and the Son of Man. When the Honorable Elijah Muhammad asked Him to identify Himself He replied that He was the Mahdi. He signed His name in 1933 as Master Wallace Fard Muhammad to express the meaning of One Who had come in the Early Morning Dawn of the New Millennium to lay the base for a New World Order of Peace and Righteousness on the foundation of Truth and Justice; to put down tyrants and to change the world into a Heaven on Earth

Elijah Muhammad claimed "Master" (Fard Muhammad) to be "Messiah, second coming of Jesus, the Christ, Jehovah, God, and the Son of Man" This right here makes the claim he was(believed to be) a god.

And lastly, they say...

12. WE BELIEVE that Allah (God) appeared in the Person of Master W. Fard Muhammad, July, 1930; the long-awaited "Messiah" of the Christians and the "Mahdi" of the Muslims.

The Muslim Program (Wants & Beliefs)

3- Interesting Macolm X and Muhammad Ali were both initially brought to Islam through NOI latter converting to Sunni Islam. Muhammad Ali later converted to Sufism.

Yes. This is, what I thought, common knowledge. Malcolm X was killed by NOI as well for his leave.