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Muslims Only: Nation of "Islam"?

Rational_Mind

Ahmadi Muslim
Sorry but that website looks like it was made by a five-year old. I would rather want sufficient evidence before I go ahead stating someone elses beliefs. Because they are not my beliefs, I wouldn't know them better. So please if you could show me substantial evidence I can accept it. But it is safer to say I don't know than to attribute falsehood to someone. As the Quran says. If you used their official website as you stated it would help.

I don't know where you get your information. But here on their official website,

Elijah Muhammad claimed "Master" (Fard Muhammad) to be "Messiah, second coming of Jesus, the Christ, Jehovah, God, and the Son of Man" This right here makes the claim he was(believed to be) a god.

The Honorable Elijah Muhammad identified the Master as being the answer to the one that the world had been expecting for the past 2,000 years under the names Messiah, the second coming of Jesus, the Christ, Jehovah, God, and the Son of Man. NOI ABOUT

Which sources are you using? Misquotations. Why are people using such tactics. I am under the impression that most mainstream Muslims cannot respond properly so they try employ such methods. It is unfortunate you are stumbling upon the website of such people.

And lastly, they say...
The Muslim Program (Wants & Beliefs)

12. WE BELIEVE that Allah (God) appeared in the Person of Master W. Fard Muhammad, July, 1930; the long-awaited "Messiah" of the Christians and the "Mahdi" of the Muslims.

There is an important difference in Allah appearing and claiming to be Allah. It has been said in many authentic Islamic sources that the coming of a Prophet is as if Allah appears. I believe I have heard it said from the Holy Prophet (saw) but I would look into it once more before affirming.

Have you heard the term "manifestation of God". If they believe him to be a Prophet it would make sense, that they would believe he was a manifestation of God. Just as all Muslims believe all Prophets were a manifestation of God. It is said because they strongly display the attributes of God in themselves.

Yes. This is, what I thought, common knowledge. Malcolm X was killed by NOI as well for his leave.

By members of NOI. Unless there is substantial evidence to hold the leader of NOI at that time accountable. In such a case he would have been charged with second degree murder. It is possible that he may have influenced these members, but I would rather not speculate as I don't know.
 

cocolia42

Active Member
This is a topic I do not feel comfortable leaving alone. The NOI does not follow the teachings of Islam and I cannot let someone be misled into thinking it does.
"The Honorable Elijah Muhammad said to us that an atom sparkled in the darkness and God began to create Himself out of the material of the darkness." (pg 44)

"The First God fashioned Himself out of darkness, so this teaches us how environment can influence heredity." (pg 45)

"Since we agree that environment influences heredity, and the darkness before there was sunlight had matter in it that was real, how could The God make Himself up in darkness and come out White? If He made Himself up out of darkness, and the darkness covered Him, then The God Who originated the Heavens and the Earth is a Black God." (pg 45)

"There was some begetting done after He created Himself. The Honorable Elijah Muhammad said the first thing He did was study Himself and in Himself He saw another being, another creature. In Himself He saw somebody else and He brought “her” into existence from Himself. The first act of creation of God is not the Sun, the Moon, nor the Stars. His first act of creation was Woman: The Second Self of God." (pg 46)

"Since our deportation from the Moon, it has been 66 trillion years. ..
So when we write history, we write it to last for 25,000 years, and the first man of that cycle is The God, or the Original Man, or the Adam of that cycle. He cannot borrow the wisdom of the previous cycle, but He builds on that wisdom with a new wisdom." (pg 47)

"When it is time for a portion of that history to be given, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad teaches that there are 24 Scientists. He called them “Scientists” – these are Gods. Twenty-three (23) of them actually do the writing; and the 24th One acts as a Judge." (pg 47)

Oh! It get's better! Read it yourself, from their own website: http://www.finalcall.net/docs/studyguide21.pdf
 

cocolia42

Active Member
While I normally wouldn't consider this to be a reliable source, I read this report and it coincides with what I have learned from members and past members of the NOI. It's very long, but worth at least skimming over as it points out the differences between the teachings of Islam and the teachings of the NOI. It also mentions how the NOI claim that John the Baptist created the "white devil race" over a 600 year period which is also something I was told by the members of the NOI.

FBI — Nation of Islam Part 1 of 3
 

Rational_Mind

Ahmadi Muslim
While I normally wouldn't consider this to be a reliable source, I read this report and it coincides with what I have learned from members and past members of the NOI. It's very long, but worth at least skimming over as it points out the differences between the teachings of Islam and the teachings of the NOI. It also mentions how the NOI claim that John the Baptist created the "white devil race" over a 600 year period which is also something I was told by the members of the NOI.

FBI — Nation of Islam Part 1 of 3

Written in 1955, hmm... Do you have any idea how racist America was in 1955?

Montgomery Bus Boycott in 1955. Also look up events in Alabama 1961.

A report from that age written my White America who essentially enslaved black people cannot be considered an unbiased source. I cannot even believe this was brought up.

NOI might have done many controversial things, but I would want a fair view on it. I know they have made racist statements but it is hard to attribute it to them as a whole because how vastly divided they were at the time and the power struggles. I am more interested in their beliefs and views today, rather than holding them accountable for the actions of their forefathers.
 

cocolia42

Active Member
Written in 1955, hmm... Do you have any idea how racist America was in 1955?
Not written in 1955 since it talks about events as late as 1965. But regardless of when it was written, it's true.

NOI might have done many controversial things, but I would want a fair view on it. I know they have made racist statements but it is hard to attribute it to them as a whole because how vastly divided they were at the time and the power struggles. I am more interested in their beliefs and views today, rather than holding them accountable for the actions of their forefathers.
Does this statement make sense? It is a religion, not an ethnicity. The followers of today are only followers if they follow the teachings of the prophet claimed by the NOI. And it was their prophet making these racist statements.

I stated that under normal circumstances I would not use the FBI as a reliable source, but again, after reading it, I find it to be accurate. I know people who are followers of the NOI and my husband is an ex-follower of the NOI. This is in fact what the NOI teaches.

Want more? This is their newspaper called Muhammad Speaks. Muhammad Speaks - F.A.Q. To Publisher

Watch the video on the home page. It's a temple meeting from Sunday, May 19th, 2013. Muhammad Speaks - What We Need To Know About the Nation The World, and Ourselves

Talking about Fard Muhammad is Allah. Calling other black men gods. Saying the original message taught by Elijah Muhammad doesn't need anything added to or taken from, it needs to be followed.

The most fundamental aspect of Islam is Tawheed. The Oneness of Allah subhannahu wa ta'ala. What the NOI teaches is SHIRK! There is no way around that. It is no different than the Christians claiming Jehova came in the form of Jesus. It is no different than the Hindus claiming their gods are manifestations of One God. It's shirk! Not to mention disbelief because its teachings are clearly opposed to the teachings of the Qur'an. And to lead people to believe that this is part of the Truth sent by Allah subhannahu wa ta'ala to the Prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa salam, would be wrong.
 

Monotheist 101

Well-Known Member
"Of the people there are some who say: 'We believe in Allah and the Last Day", notwithstanding their unbelief. Fain would they deceive Allah and the believers, but they only deceive themselves, and realize it not. In their hearts there is a disease, and Allah permitted this decease to increase. Grievous is the penalty they incur, because they are false". [2:8-10]
 

Yahya

Member
My first question to you is what constitutes being a real Muslim? Are they a certain race of people? Do they have to be a certain color? Do they have to perform certain rituals? Do they have to live in a certain part of the world, like the Middle East? Well my understanding is that, a Muslim is one who submits his will to do the will of Allah and it does not matter what color you are or where you live, as long as you first keep your duty to Allah.

I agree with you on the point that there are too many sects in Islam and too much division. I pray to Allah that some day all Muslims will unite and become one Nation of Islam or as one Ummah. By the way, the Nation of Islam does not just include black Muslims in the west; it is the collective name for all Muslims around the world united as one. You also mentioned that some sects even claim that another messenger will come after Prophet Muhammad.

If you are referring to the nation of Islam you must know that one central tenet of the Muslim faith is the future coming of Imam Mahdi. In addition to his coming the Messiah will return to aid the Mahdi. These two men are now in the world executing judgement of the world.

Furthermore, the Nation of Islam adamantly believe there is no god but Allah and that Profit Muhammad is the seal of the prophets, however Profit Muhammad was a profit not a messenger and was sent to the Arabs of the east fourteen hundred years before the discovery of America. You must also realize that Allah always send a messenger to a people when that people stray far off the righteous path and that is what the Muslims in the east has done.

The people of the west had very little knowledge about Islam or Allah until the coming of the great Mahdi in the person of Master Fard Muhammad who taught, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, the Messiah. You must also consider there is a people living in America who were brought to America against there own will in the bottom of ships and were made slaves to serve another people for over four hundred years.

These people were stripped of their language, culture, and their religious beliefs. These very same people you think are not Muslims are in fact the descendants of Abraham and Abraham was a Muslim. These divine people are prophesied in the scriptures of the bible.

Gen: 15:13. “God he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years.”

Gen: 15:14 “And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.

So as you can see from reading those two verses, Allah will come in the person of a man with his messiah, to judge the world and deliver these lost found people and teach them how to be real Muslims.

Allah always empowers profits and messengers with his Holy Spirit. These men/women are given various powers through his holy spirit to accomplish the mission in which they were sent to accomplish, but not equal to the power of the Mahdi and Messiah.

One more point I would like to make is, what the Nation of Islam mean when they say, “Allah came in the person of Master Fard Muhammad”. They are saying that the Mahdi was born of a women just like you and I and that Allah has empowered the Mahdi through his Holy Spirit, with great power over the elements of nature, wisdom, knowledge and the understanding relevant to the time we are living now. I hope I did shed some light and hope Allah grant you the light of understanding. PEACE.
 

Yahya

Member
It appears in expressing your belief that you object to the face that Allah has chosen a people who have been rejected and despised for hundreds of years. Allah does what he pleases to whom he please. What you must understand is that Allah and his Messiah is teaching these chosen people the Quran, the torah, and injil. The knowledge that these people are getting is from Allah in the person of Master Fard Muhammad. The long awaited Madhi. Take it or leave it alone. What you now need to do is, study these books to learn how not to express your ethnocentric attitude.
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
From the Sunan of Ibn Majah:

Anas bin Malik said:
“I heard the Messenger of Allah say: ‘My nation will not unite on misguidance, so if you see them differing, follow the great majority.’”

The great majority of this ummah adheres to the 4 madhhabs (schools of fiqh), who are also known as Sunni.
 

Yahya

Member
Before reading any further brother, think on these two verse.

“1Cor:2:14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

I can understand why you find it hard to believe that the NOI is not real Muslims. They are not real to you because you think that Allah does not have the right to raise a new people to represent Islam. Prophet Muhammad said, three generations after him, Islam would not be of him. If you look at Islam as a whole today you will find there are more than seventy sects or divisions.

This is not what Prophet Muhammad wanted, he wanted one unified Islam. Because of this division Allah has seen fit to visit America and raise one man up among us to teach the black man in America how to be true Muslims, Muslims whose first duty would be to serve him, Allah than his fellow man. Look at Islam in the east today, you can hardly call them Muslims. Muslims are killing Muslims like files in the east.

One thing I can say about the Muslim brothers in the west is that they do try to reach out to Muslims from the east. Muslims from the east think they have all the answers because they were brought up as Muslims. If they have all the answers, they need to put them into practice and stop just reciting Quran. I really do not think they have the answers, considering the chaotic condition of their country.

Like I just said, practice what you preach. It seems to me that all you are doing is observing and not trying to teach or understand. You say, here is what you know so far. From the statement you made, it appears that you are on a fact finding mission to find out what NOI believed in. You say, to your face, they will tell you that they are your brothers. Are you implying that they are not your brothers at any other time?

My question to you is, do they also give you the greetings of peace? As-salam alaykum. My next question to you is, do you return the greetings of peace? Wa alaykumu salam? This greeting is a common greeting among professing Muslims this is the only respectful thing to do when two professing Muslims greet each other. You could be the hypocrite and not him. Are you aware that there are at least seventy sects of Islam in the east and each profess a slightly different doctrine. Would you say they are not your brothers or Is it just the black Muslims in America?

I know it is hard to believe that Allah came to America in the person of master Fard Muhammad to delivery a people who were brought here to America in ships against there will and made slaves and to serve the slave master four hundred years. These people had no knowledge of Islam until Master Fard Muhammad came to America and tough for three years true Islam to a man with only a third grade education, The Honorable Elijah Muhammad.

Yes we do believe that Allah came in the person of Master Fard Muhammad but Master Fard Muhammad is not and can not be Allah. He can only manifest a certain degree of his power, knowledge, wisdom, and understanding. Have you ever heard the saying “If god be with you no one can be against you”? This is how Allah is working through Master Fard Muhammad through his Holy Spirit.

I can also understand you saying that our belief is mysterious, it was mysterious to us also, until we studied and learned more about what was being reveled to us, for the first time in our history in America. As far as our belief that the White race is a grafted race you will have to do some research on your own. but here is a brief story of Yakub the father of the White race. The story of Yakub was originated in the writings of Wallace Fard Muhammad, the founder of the Nation of Islam, in his doctrinal Q&A pamphlet Lost Found Moslem Lesson No.2.

It was developed by his successor Elijah Muhammad in several writings, most fully in a chapter entitled "The Making of the Devil" in his book Message to the Blackman in America. Yakub said to have been born in Mecca at a time when 30% of the original black people were dissatisfied". He was a member of the Meccan branch of the Tribe of Shabazz. Yakub acquired the nickname "big head", because of his unusually large head and his arrogance.

At the age of six, he discovered the law of attraction and repulsion by playing with magnets made of steel. This insight led to a dastardly plan to create new people. He "saw an unlike human being, made to attract others, who could, with the knowledge of tricks and lies, rule the original black man. By the age of 18, he had exhausted all knowledge in the universities of Mecca. He then discovered that the "original black man" contained both a "black germ" and a "brown germ".

With 59,999 followers, he went to the island of Patmos, where he established a despotic regime and set about breeding out the black traits, killed all darker babies, and created a brown race after 200 years. Yakub died at the age of 152, but his followers carried on his work. After 600 years of this deliberate eugenics, the white race was created.

According to The Autobiography of Malcolm X, all the races other than the black race were by products of Yakub's work, as the "red, yellow and brown" races were created during the "bleaching" process; however, the "black race" included Asian peoples, considered to be shared ancestors of the Moors. "Whites" were defined as Europeans. Elijah Muhammad also asserted that some of the new white race "tried to graft themselves back into the black nation, but they had nothing to go by”.

As a result, they became gorillas. "A few were lucky enough to make a start, and got as far as what you call the gorilla. In fact, all of the monkey family are from this 2,000 year history of the white race in Europe."
According to NOI doctrine, Yakub's progeny were destined to rule for 6,000 years before the original black peoples of the world regained dominance, a process that had begun in 1914.

You made the statement that we believe that “God is human and black”. I know this is hard for you to comprehend especially if you are not being taught the truth about our history or your history or you are not trying to prove this truth false, through research. To establish the fact that god can be a man, I would like to cite Habakkuk 3:3-6: There are numerous references to God having the features of a human being in scriptures. Try not to spiritualize God then you will not be able to see him.

"(3) God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise. (4) And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power. (5) Before him went the pestilence, and burning coals went forth at his feet. (6) He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting."

Here again we see God having hands and feet and coming from the land of Teman. "Spirit" means "the energy of life" so energy does not have hands and feet. God is a Man whose flesh dies and another man then becomes God but He is a Human Being. Allah (God) who came in the Person of Master Fard Muhammad (Mahdi) and raised up a messenger (Messiah) for us named Elijah Muhammad and His Warner, the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan has revealed these things to us.

In the biblical account of creation God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. The God Yahcub was a black scientist talking to other black scientist when he said let us make a man in our image and after our likeness. The white race is not considered human because human denotes color. The white race is considered mankind. The white race was not created by the same process as the black man, he was grafted out of the black Man. I am not trying to be funny or sarcastic, this is a genetic fact.

Ezekiel 1:15-17 - Now as I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the earth beside the living creatures, one for each of the four of them. As for the appearance of the wheels and their construction: their appearance was like the gleaming of beryl. And the four had the same likeness, their appearance and construction being as it were a wheel within a wheel. When they went, they went in any of their four directions without turning as they went.

During the Exodus, the Hebrew people were slaves in Egypt, so the Bible reports, and God sent an “angel” to Moses and called him to lead the Israelites out of Egypt. After various plagues came upon the Egyptians, the Israelites escaped, and for the next forty years “the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of cloud to lead them along the way, and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night (Exodus 13:21).” This strange aerial object looked cloud-like during the day and glowed in the dark.. Eventually this strange “cloud” seemed to defeat the Egyptians in battle, and it gave guidance and instructions to Moses.

I cited these passages only to show you that UFO’s were always alluded to in the bible and that Moses was given guidance and instructions from the beings on this vehicle. Up to this present day UFO’s are being sighted all over the world. Minister Farrakhan said he had a vision and in this vision he was taken aboard a UFO, he said he was given instructions the same way Moses was given instructions. Take it or leave it alone.

NOI members are not polytheist they are monotheist. They believe there is no God but Allah who came in the person of Master Fard Muhammad (Madhi)and that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad is the Messiah.
 

Assad91

Shi'ah Ali
I can understand why you find it hard to believe that the NOI is not real Muslims. They are not real to you because you think that Allah does not have the right to raise a new people to represent Islam.
No, actually it has to do with saying Allah is a black man (astigfurllah)

My question to you is, do they also give you the greetings of peace? As-salam alaykum. My next question to you is, do you return the greetings of peace? Wa alaykumu salam? This greeting is a common greeting among professing Muslims this is the only respectful thing to do when two professing Muslims greet each other. You could be the hypocrite and not him. Are you aware that there are at least seventy sects of Islam in the east and each profess a slightly different doctrine. Would you say they are not your brothers or Is it just the black Muslims in America?
Most black Muslims in America ain't NOI, so yeah, I gladly return salams
 

Yahya

Member
May Allah bless you with the light of understanding

Because I have read many posts expressing resentment toward the “Nation of Islam”, saying that they are not real Muslims, I just though I would take the time to make some points clearer. As you should well know, if you are a Muslim that the Kaaba, which remains the most significant mosque in Islam, is believed to have been constructed by Abraham and Ishmael. Is this true?

I am sure you are also aware that Abraham's reformation of the purified monotheistic faith took place in Mecca. Is this true? To get some insight into who these people you claim are not real Muslims, read the two following verses from the Torah. Yes, we read the Quran, Torah, and Injil.

In the book of Gen: 15:13 Allah said to Abraham, know of a surety that thy seed or descendants, shall be strangers in a land that is not theirs and in that land they shall serve or become slaves to those people of that land, America. These verses go on to say that; in this strange land they will be afflicted four hundred years.

My question to you at this point is what nation of people on earth and according to history, do you think fit that description? Could it possibly be the very nation of people you moke at? I must tell you in case you do not; know. This nation of people was kid-napped, robed of their culture, their language, and their religion. They were made slaves and served as such for four-hundred plus years. Now they are progressively being raised form a dead horizontal plane to an upright perpendicular by the grace of Allah. I must also mention the fact that they are Abraham’s seed would make them natural Muslims by birthright.

The big difference between our belief and your belief is that you believe that Prophet Muhammad is the seal of the prophets, which is true. Prophet Muhammad was just that, a Prophet. Prophet Muhammad was sent to the Arab people over fifteen hundred years ago before the discovery of America.

What must understand that Allah always send a Messenger or Warner to a people who have drifted off the straight path. However these people you moke at, never had the chance to learn about a straight path or Allah in slavery. They only got the chance after Allah came in the person of Master Fard Muhammad (Mahdi) and raised one up among us and tough him, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad (Messiah).

Now with this new knowledge, they are trying to become examples to the world to show the world Allah has indeed visited a people who have been rejected and despised. This new teaching has help clean our people up in many ways: it has made people stop smoking, drinking, fornicating, and committing adultery. It has given us a new dignity about ourselves we never had. It has helped us learn about our history. Most importantly, is has reacquainted us with Abraham’s God, Allah.

All praise is do to Allah for sending us a Deliverer and Saviour. As you read further in, Gen: 15:14 Allah is telling Abraham that that, nation “America”, whom they shall serve that he, Allah will come and judge and afterward shall the Nation of Islam come out with great substance. I must warn you that these very same people you moke at, may be the very same people that you will need some day soon. I must also tell you that they are in fact, Allah’s chosen people, Abraham’s seed, not the Ashkenazi Jews.

I know this mite disturb you but it is the will of Allah. Take it or leave it alone. May Allah bless you with the light of understanding. PEACE.
 

Yahya

Member
No Allah is whatever he choose to be. All he does is say be and it is. black or white. You got a problem with that?
 
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